Why wont healer classes heal...?

90 Tauren Druid
7615
I gots a question, and its not about healer specs, it about hybric dps classes and tank classes that wont throw a heal on a rogue in a scenario, dungeon, lfr, whatever. Whats up with that?

Leave ur responses below!


dungeons and lfr have dedicated healers, so why would a dps specced hybrid bother with their crappy heals?

scenarios tho i do off heal , but hell you shouldnt need much healing in a scenario. use your defenses
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100 Undead Priest
10430
I gots a question, and its not about healer specs, it about hybric dps classes and tank classes that wont throw a heal on a rogue in a scenario, dungeon, lfr, whatever. Whats up with that?

Leave ur responses below!


You failed to ask the most important question:

Is this Rogue worth healing?

Frequently, the answer is no.
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90 Draenei Priest
11815
Well, I just likes rogues, so I'd probably toss a heal. But when I play shadow, I don't care if I have off-heals, it's not my job to keep people alive so I don't make it my concern.
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19 Human Priest
1160
Some people seriously lack situational awareness. I've especially noticed this with paladins though.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
I gots a question, and its not about healer specs, it about hybric dps classes and tank classes that wont throw a heal on a rogue in a scenario, dungeon, lfr, whatever. Whats up with that?

Leave ur responses below!


If they were played by better players they could and should heal you. However its kind of hypocritical, because if you played better you probably wouldn't need much, if any, healing from them.


100% this. Every class in the game has adequate self "healing" for scenarios and incidental unavoidable damage. If you aren't avoiding the damage you should be through using your abilities it's not up to the other dps to take care of you.

If you aren't getting heals in dungeons/raids then perhaps you might want to reconsider any attitude you are displaying or your general behavior. A dps that is just quietly doing their thing reasonably well (not standing in the fire, etc) through a dungeon run will usually get more than enough healing. When you start mouthing off or doing stupid crap like pulling adds instead of letting the tank do the tanking then healers tend to start thinking it is more mana efficient to let you die than to try and keep you alive...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15080
hybrid*

and....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I
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Not everybody does that, some of us do care. On my Boomkin or shadow priest I always keep an eye on the health bar of everybody else. If needed, I throw heals, bubbles etc. Helps the healer and everybody else.

People not dying = people finishing the dungeon/scenario/etc in a short time, vs the other alternative.
Edited by Alerya on 8/25/2013 12:57 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
5925
People not dying = people finishing the dungeon/scenario/etc in a short time, vs the other alternative.


True, but a lot depends on why they were in danger of dying in the first place. Has the healer already written them off, and if so, why? Or is a HoT and maybe a cheap heal not enough to make up for the damage they're taking, and again, if so, why?

The most likely answers are tanking multiple trash mobs with their face or standing in fire, so that makes it pretty understandable why the other DPS aren't jumping all over themselves to heal that one.

P.S. There are no healer classes, tank classes, or DPS classes. Roles are a property of specs. Nonhealer specs that belong to a class that also has healing specs don't actually heal that well in the first place. This used to not be true, but the healing ability of DPS specs has been repeatedly nerfed over the last few expansions.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Speaking as a Pally healer, with a tank offspec.

As HPal, I have near unlimited healing potential for a group. It's hard not to keep a group up if you're halfway proficient (assuming your group is as well).

Now compare that to tank spec. For active heals, I really only have a couple options. I can use WoG, which is a tradeoff for mitigation/healing to myself or I can use Flash. Flash is stupidly expensive. It takes 1/3 my mana, and does minimal healing (compared to being on Hpal spec).

That doesn't mean I won't toss a heal, just that I am very limited in my ability to do so. I'm actually better off using a Hand, or a taunt than a heal in most cases.

The best way to really look at this, is why don't healers dps? Because it's ineffective/inefficient compared to what our DPS specs can do. I can throw out a bit of damage every now and then, but should I (if it's going to conflict with my healing)?
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100 Pandaren Monk
10135
08/23/2013 01:04 PMPosted by Elethia
Horrible assessment about the hybrids.


Not really. It was a lazy, but not inaccurate assessment.

Most hybrids have weak heals and/or heals dependent on something like a finisher, proc, etc. In a raid setting, it's often not worth the time or resources spent for a non-healer, especially since you should be able to rely on your healers. There are notable exemptions, like phases where damage cannot be dealt (or only limited damage can be dealt) and damage taken is high.

The dynamic changes in dungeons and 5-man scenarios, but dependencies don't. If the healer dies or is swamped or is simply swamped (as can be the case in scenarios) and you know, as a hybrid, that your heals will keep the people alive, then you should step out and heal. Most of the time, though, the people who are complaining about not getting heals are compromising their own situation and aren't worth keeping up, if only to try and teach them the importance of self-preservation.


It was inaccurate.
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100 Night Elf Priest
13820
It was inaccurate.


I see. You present a fine argument, sir. Your logic and counterarguments astound! I shall immediately change my opinion.
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100 Pandaren Monk
10135
If I cared whether or not you believed me I might be inclined to break down every classes ability to off heal. Since I don't, and I don't feel like doing it, I am not going to.

Part of the problem is trying to evaluate them on a broad spectrum rather than being specific to a certain type of instance. However what you described is not accurate in any type of instance.

I wouldn't have called you out if you just got some of the specifics wrong, but that wasn't all you did. You also tried to represent the false idea that NO class really has the ability to do decent off heals when called upon, which is totally false.
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100 Night Elf Priest
13820
You also tried to represent the false idea that NO class really has the ability to do decent off heals when called upon, which is totally false.


Sorry, but no. You clearly didn't understand what I was saying if that's what you took away.

I stated very clearly that hybrid healing is weak and usually not worth the time or resources used, with notable exceptions. I addressed raiding versus 5-man/Scenario, noting both that there are phases in encounters where hybrids should be healing and that there are situations where it's appropriate to abandon dpsing to help out a struggling healer or keep someone alive when there is no healer.

Heck, I was offered a raiding spot with my first raiding guild back in BC when I hopped out of Shadow form in a heroic and kept the party from wiping when the healer died.

It's one thing to, say, pop VE, drop HST, or use LoH/HR/Tranq (the last of which I did countless times in the Zul heroics because good lord people love breaking CC). It's something very different to start trying to pump out single target heals to save one person when they're being daft.
Edited by Elethia on 8/26/2013 9:00 AM PDT
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100 Pandaren Monk
10135
I stated very clearly that hybrid healing is weak and usually not worth the time or resources used, with notable exceptions. I addressed raiding versus 5-man/Scenario, noting both that there are phases in encounters where hybrids should be healing and that there are situations where it's appropriate to abandon dpsing to help out a struggling healer or keep someone alive when there is no healer.


Maybe in your addendum but not in your original assessment.

It's one thing to, say, pop VE, drop HST, or use LoH/HR/Tranq (the last of which I did countless times in the Zul heroics because good lord people love breaking CC). It's something very different to start trying to pump out single target heals to save one person when they're being daft.


Depending on this encounter, that exact use could be the most optimal thing you could do with those.

I mean in a raid no dps/tank is going to target another dps, like a rogue, with a single target heal. That doesn't make this statement correct though.

Shaman

Limited resources and weak heals for both dps specs.


Your original assessment was given without any context or conditions and as such was completely wrong. Nothing you can do or say now can change that, but you can correct yourself.
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100 Night Elf Priest
13820
You're nitpicking, and you're wrong. I'm sorry.

The OP specifically asked why hybrids weren't stopping to "throw a heal on a rogue". He set the context in his first post, and I responded directly to it.

Since you pulled Shaman from my list, I'll respond by saying I have an alt Shaman who splits her time between Resto and Elemental. My resources are, in fact, limited when the cost and effect of my heals are taken into consideration.
Edited by Elethia on 8/26/2013 9:46 AM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
6525
The premise of her assessment was the OP's initial post.

Do we really need to squabble over something so petty? Hmm? I think not.
Sure it was faulty for lacking specific details that are otherwise, truly not even relevant to the original question.
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100 Night Elf Priest
13820
The premise of her assessment was the OP's initial post.

Do we really need to squabble over something so petty? Hmm? I think not.
Sure it was faulty for lacking specific details that are otherwise, truly not even relevant to the original question.


Yep! I even admitted that it was a lazy post (multiple times too~). Anyway, as you said, no point in this continuing. I've provided ample defense.
Edited by Elethia on 8/26/2013 10:10 AM PDT
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100 Pandaren Shaman
8330
Hell, I MS Resto, and when I'm in Ele spec for soloing my options are,
Healing Stream Totem.
Chain Heal
Healing Rain
Healing Surge
AG/HTT

So all my high cost heals. All of which gain none of the interactions that make them worth using and are 20-33% weaker baseline.

Sure I can spam Healing Surge to get someone to full health as Ele. But then what? I'm OOM.
The best bet is for me to just pop AG/HTT or HST and just keep on DPSing. But HST only has 50% uptime, AG has a 2 minute CD, HTT has 3...

Healing Surge doesn't get the 30% crit buff as Ele and is about 20% weaker than it is for Resto.

Healing Rain unbuffed is about 33% weaker for ele. I ALWAYS Unleash Life my Healing Rains which is a further 30% boost.

Chain Heal isn't worth casting as Resto unless you can get all 5 bounces starting on a Riptided target... Ele doesn't get Riptide and has a 25% weaker Chain Heal baseline...

And just for the record, Healing Stream Totem is 50% weaker for Ele than Resto.
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100 Pandaren Monk
10135
You're nitpicking, and you're wrong. I'm sorry. The OP specifically asked why hybrids weren't stopping to "throw a heal on a rogue". He set the context in his first post, and I responded directly to it. Since you pulled Shaman from my list, I'll respond by saying I have an alt Shaman who splits her time between Resto and Elemental. My resources are, in fact, limited when the cost and effect of my heals are taken into consideration.


Well just to prove my point. Any dps shaman in a scenario, which was on the list the OP presented, can use AG to keep a rogue alive when they are in danger of dying. Also if enhancement shaman off heals are so weak, why are they nerfing them in 5.4?

Yep! I even admitted that it was a lazy post (multiple times too~). Anyway, as you said, no point in this continuing. I've provided ample defense.


No need to provide defense, I was right and you were wrong. You should have just let it be.
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