Why wont healer classes heal...?

90 Blood Elf Mage
17095
You insist on trying to get technical so you don't have to own up to terrible assessment


The irony.
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90 Undead Priest
9900

Also, hybrid off-healing is really only useful as a buffer for when total healing requirements get too high. If you're relying on hybrid DPS to save your life in an emergency, you're going to have a problem. That's not our strong suit.


On the contrary, our best healing is through the use of DPS+Healing cooldowns like Vampiric Embrace which reward healing based on our damage done. You will achieve a greater emergency HPS number through Vamp Embrace than you ever will achieve by stopping and casting generic healing. Thus, in most emergencies we are actually better off continuing DPS.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7130
If im in 5man content (without a disc priest healing the group) I will constantly throw around bubbles and the occasional glyphed renew. It brings utility to the table! Shadow priests are all about the offhealing in raids with VE and halo.

However if its to save you when you're standing in the FIREPOISONEVILDOOMGROUNDISBAD gg you're not worth me breaking my rotation.
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85 Gnome Death Knight
9510
The time and resources it takes to throw you a half assed heal are better spent on DPS. Frankly your own healing abilities are just as effective as your average hybrid heal, and if you think taking time and resources away from your own DPS to heal yourself is a waste then you have answered your own question.

Use your own focus for talented feint, leeching poison, recuperate, and use the free health potions you get from pick pocket. If those don't keep you up then a bad heal from an enhancement shaman isn't going to do it either.
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90 Gnome Rogue
8120
Why as a rogue aren't you using evasion + smokebomb + self heal? Why don't I ever see other rogues use smokebomb when they full well know a raid wide damage spike is about to happen.

It goes both ways. Most people have tunnel vision and focus on dps. Just because they are hybrid, doesn't mean they should sacrifice dps....the healer is there to heal you. If the healer dies, the hybrid can step if necessary. At least that's how I've always done it on my druid and priest.
Edited by Fingerz on 8/27/2013 10:21 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8500
Ive decided against wasting anymore time responding to you.


I've usually found that to mean, "I can't come up with a coherent argument and you've seen through my load of bull."

I'm not necessarily saying that is what you're doing but generally people with coherent arguments don't make statements like that. They're deliberately inflammatory and only serve to point out to logical observers that you don't have a real argument. Basically, they are the argumentative form of a concession while taking a jab at the opponent.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12000
The ignore button brings peace.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13490
I have just been restating my original critique, which Im sure is old so I will stop.


Honestly, the main issue I have is the perceived slam. I admitted immediately that it was lazy; it was also incomplete. But, that does not make it wrong, or terrible, just as saying the sky is blue isn't wrong because just I haven't added "unless your eyes function differently, you're blind, live on Venus, or are looking top down because you're floating around with the satellites".

Details are nice, but I was rushed and, to be unnecessarily honest, having a really rough day already. For the most part, most of what you've said in this thread has been outright rude and it took a lot of back and forth for any constructive criticism to be fished out of you.
Edited by Elethia on 8/27/2013 7:40 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Paladin
8200
In all honesty? Us hybrid classes tend to be rather weak in the healing and mana department when we're not specced for it -- at least in my experience. As a retadin in scenarios, I only have enough mana to cast one, maybe two, Flash heals on myself before I'm oom. Word of Glory isn't that potent either and certainly won't save any lives if you are taking CONSISTENT damage. In summary, hybrid specs are not really SUPPOSED to be healing constantly, and our lack of mana and healing strength reflects that.

Dungeons are a different story though. If I see someone who is struggling, and the healer is failing to heal them for whatever reason, then I will usually jump in to help. Even when tanking/DPSing, I always have VuhDo enabled so that I can see who is taking damage/has aggro, while also having heals and other abilities readily clickable. Generally in this case though, the healer is to blame - don't take it out on the hybrids! To me, scenarios are the only legit reason to complain about this.

Still, try to keep in mind the info in my first paragraph: our heals just are not that great/use too much mana. Chances are, if you are taking consistent damage that requires more than a single heal to keep you topped off, then you are doing something wrong: stranding in AoE, ignoring boss mechanics, not interrupting, etc etc.

But I acknowledge your point and definitely understand what you're saying. However, just be sure that YOU are doing everything in your power not to take damage before asking others to help you out, especially when it's not technically their job to do so.
Edited by Wailakee on 8/27/2013 9:22 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11580
I gots a question, and its not about healer specs, it about hybric dps classes and tank classes that wont throw a heal on a rogue in a scenario, dungeon, lfr, whatever. Whats up with that?


Why would a hybrid pop a heal out to a rogue when they have multiple abilities to mitigate/escape damage, have an ability to heal themselves AND there's a healer in group?

The only exception would be if the group is terrible and I have to help heal in clutch situations. Even then, I'm not healing just one player.
Edited by Sherbear on 8/28/2013 3:59 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Monk
5575
I assume it's because a hybrid in a dps spec wanted to, oh I don't know, dps?

Scenarios are designed so that 3 pure dps classes, using their healing cooldowns appropriately, can finish them without dying. Which leads me to believe you're not using your healing cds and assuming it's some other person's job to keep themselves AND you alive.
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67 Undead Monk
1990
08/25/2013 04:21 AMPosted by Linnelle
Every class in the game has adequate self "healing" for scenarios and incidental unavoidable damage. If you aren't avoiding the damage you should be through using your abilities it's not up to the other dps to take care of you.


This is the kind of horrible attitude I hate to see in any teammate. You're part of a team, trying to accomplish a goal together. You do not have a job isolated from every other part of the team. What you should do is what's best for the team.

08/27/2013 09:15 AMPosted by Anklegrip
The time and resources it takes to throw you a half assed heal are better spent on DPS.


Nonsense. This is entirely, entirely situational. Sometimes it's better spent on DPS. Sometimes it's not.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8200
This is the kind of horrible attitude I hate to see in any teammate. You're part of a team, trying to accomplish a goal together. You do not have a job isolated from every other part of the team. What you should do is what's best for the team.


But it can also be argued that it isn't fair to the team if a person is taking unnecessary damage and others have to go out of their way to stop completing their role in order to make up for and correct with their teammate isn't bringing to the table.

To me, doing what's best for the team is a give and take. Carrying individuals constantly is not my idea of doing what's best for a team. If someone is taking avoidable damage, then it is they who are hindering the team and should do what they can to correct themselves.

I see both sides of the story, and incidentally my conclusion is thus:

1. If an individual makes a mistake and needs a heal to top them off, I feel as though my heal will be going towards a good cause. This player has been pulling their weight and made a simple error, and it is our job as hybrid healer classes to ensure that we keep this player alive for the betterment of the group.
2. If an individual has been making a plethora of errors throughout the entirety of the scenario/dungeon/raid and is taking damage that is avoidable, I will try to educate them on the mechanics. Carrying them without ensuring that they know what they're doing wrong is doing neither the team nor the player any good - individuals must learn from their mistakes in order to better themselves. 'Teach a man to fish...'
Edited by Wailakee on 8/28/2013 10:22 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8500
08/28/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Crikit
This is the kind of horrible attitude I hate to see in any teammate. You're part of a team, trying to accomplish a goal together. You do not have a job isolated from every other part of the team. What you should do is what's best for the team.


And sometimes it is better to let the idiot die in the fire than to try to save his stupid self.

Nonsense. This is entirely, entirely situational. Sometimes it's better spent on DPS. Sometimes it's not.


I want to know what case it is better to stop DPSing, use ALL my mana/energy/focus to save someone, then just sit there doing nothing while I wait for enough mana to DPS again in any Scenario/Heroic Scenario...
Any time more than self healing or maybe a cooldown like AG which I can use while DPSing would be needed, you're taking far more damage than you should... In this case, I'm more likely than not doing more damage than you, which means I'm helping the team more by ignoring you and keeping up with my DPS letting you drop to 0 rather than myself. Also, once I oom, you're probably going to die as well, so then we'll both be at 0. That helps nobody.
If it is someone who just made a mistake, I can use AG, keep DPSing and that will be enough.

I should note I've completed HScenarios with the following comps without ever needing a direct heal...
Ele/Ele/BM Hunter Hunter was able to keep his pet alive with mend pet, HST was the biggest heal we used.
Ele/Ret/Boomkin Again, passive heals were all we needed.
Fire Mage/Ret/Prot Warrior Ret/Prot passive healing was plenty to keep them up, I stayed alive with Evocation and defensives.
Fire/Frost/Arcane Yeah, that's right, we didn't have a tank OR hybrid. And you know what? We lived.

Edit: I should add that I have gotten sick of trying to teach people mechanics in Heroic Scenarios. They get really toxic no matter how nicely you try to help them. At least that has been my experience.
Edited by Chrysippus on 8/28/2013 10:34 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
11580
This is the kind of horrible attitude I hate to see in any teammate. You're part of a team, trying to accomplish a goal together. You do not have a job isolated from every other part of the team. What you should do is what's best for the team.


On the flip side of the coin... Rogues should do what's best for the team and use their class abilities to mitigate and avoid damage, and also heal themselves.

No one is saying they wouldn't help heal in a clutch situation... we're saying that we're not going to heal someone for the hell of it. That's what your healers are for. IF your hybrid dps has to heal, then someone or multiple someones in your group are doing things horribly wrong.

Avoiding the avoidable, using your class abilities and executing proper mechanics are all part of teamwork. It's not a "horrible" attitude to expect people to play their class properly.

I should note I've completed HScenarios with the following comps without ever needing a direct heal...


I've done Rogue, Surv. Hunter and Boomkin without any major healing (a few Rejuvs here and there)
Edited by Sherbear on 8/29/2013 3:58 AM PDT
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67 Undead Monk
1990
IF your hybrid dps has to heal, then someone or multiple someones in your group are doing things horribly wrong.


No doubt. Horribly wrong things happen. What then?

If your hybrid DPS has both situational awareness and an awareness of all her capabilities, then survival chances increase. If they're locked into a DPS race no matter what happens, look out.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8410
I think there's an argument of misunderstanding here, and a polarity of positions. If a shaman were to throw out a healing rain or two during Meg rampages, or my off tank throwing out a Tranquility when she doesn't have anything to do but the raid is getting hammered, then this helps our healers a lot. Heck, we do the latter for Iron Qon, Megeara, Ji-Kun, and Durumu, when we have situations particularly stressful to our healers.

However, these are entirely situational, and the only reason we do these is to save bigger cooldowns for emergencies, larger damage phases, or are factoring in these abilities in cooldown rotation. I will never say "Shadow Priest! Spam flash heal!" because that is not their role. They are there to DPS. Sure, for Lei Shen's intermission, it might be helpful to throw out something to assist the healers when we're all split up, but ultimately, they are meant to DPS, and that is their single priority.

DPS using healing spells just isn't effective. Not only are their heals much worse as a DPS to use, but they take a larger chunk out of their mana than it would for a healer (spirit, or lack thereof, being the reason). It's just too inefficient to be considered a useful time investment.
Edited by Fistlobster on 8/29/2013 8:45 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
5475
I assume it's because a hybrid in a dps spec wanted to, oh I don't know, dps?


If they had checked DPS and healing, they'd be healing someone else's group rather than waiting an extra 10 minutes to get into yours. You might not like ret-only paladins and the like, but they have a right to play the roles they want to play if that's what they want to do. It's not their job to heal you, and if the healer isn't enough to keep you alive, WTF are you doing?
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67 Undead Monk
1990
It's not their job to heal you


It's their "job" to help the team. If the best thing they can do at a given moment is heal, then that's what they should do.

and if the healer isn't enough to keep you alive, WTF are you doing?


Sometimes horrible things happen. When they do, WTF are you doing sticking to your "job" regardless of what's going on?
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90 Goblin Shaman
15510
Shaman

Limited resources and weak heals for both dps specs.


Untrue. All DPS shamans should have a strong healing cd, and enhance healing rain does ridiculous healing for a non-healer (until 5.4) and is easy to use.

I see multiple people saying enhance heals are weak, and they obviously have no clue what they're talking about. I heal heroic scenarios as enhance all of the time, and would come top 3-4 healing plenty often in lfr tot (as enhance) back when I used to run it. Yes, lfr healers suck, but I think that's still enough to make saying enhance has weak heals a bit ridiculous.
Edited by Kranberry on 8/29/2013 6:22 PM PDT
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