Jesse Cox Dave Kosak interview: Lore

If they want Alliance players to fistpump they'd be treated as more than just along for the ride in 5.3 and 5.4 both.

Then again, this is one of those things where I feel like the confines of an MMO format where you have to have some kind of forced balance in gameplay hurts Blizzard's storytelling abilities. I think if this was happening in a non-MMO, the Alliance would outright conquer Orgrimmar and occupy the city.
Edited by Ledaria on 8/26/2013 1:46 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Shaman
14955
-Hmm.... Dalaran as a flying island fortress to rain death and destruction? Well dang. That would have been cool. Bet Thrall regrets letting Jaina not just wash away Org, but doing that would be too easy now. Least this gives us a chance to fix his mistake.



Yea, because Thrall would gladly trade the lives of the hundreds of innocents in Org when Jaina became a mad dog in order to have stopped what Garrosh has done by 5.4.

Thrall would still have stopped Jaina, if he regrets anything, it'll be his choice to not put her down permanently.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Shaman
14955
Until the Divine Bell's theft, Jaina was content for Dalaran to be a beacon of hope and cooperation between Alliance and Horde races. The theft of the Divine Bell forced her hand.


BS, if that was true, Jaina wouldn't have helped the Alliance hide the bell in the first place. She has no ground to stand on claiming the other half of Dalaran was no longer neutral for helping steal something that she herself, the grand leader of Dalaran, hid in support of the Alliance.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
12430
BS, if that was true, Jaina wouldn't have helped the Alliance hide the bell in the first place. She has no ground to stand on claiming the other half of Dalaran was no longer neutral for helping steal something that she herself, the grand leader of Dalaran, hid in support of the Alliance.


What are you talking about? She was an advocate for neutrality until they destroyed Theramore and even after it she let the Sunreavers remain until finally they stole the bell.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Rogue
7485
-Dalaran was supposed to be over Orgrimmar during the SoO, but there were too many performance issues, so it was scrapped.


That's a bummer. I wanted to see this :(
Reply Quote
100 Human Death Knight
12135

Yea, because Thrall would gladly trade the lives of the hundreds of innocents in Org when Jaina became a mad dog in order to have stopped what Garrosh has done by 5.4.

Thrall would still have stopped Jaina, if he regrets anything, it'll be his choice to not put her down permanently.

His 'choice' not to put her down?

She rocked him. She was seconds from killing Thrall and destroying Orgrimmar when Kalecgos arrived to talk her out of it.


BS, if that was true, Jaina wouldn't have helped the Alliance hide the bell in the first place. She has no ground to stand on claiming the other half of Dalaran was no longer neutral for helping steal something that she herself, the grand leader of Dalaran, hid in support of the Alliance.

She helped hide the Bell because it was an uncontrollable Old God artifact and potential weapon of mass destruction. She did this because she agreed that no one, Horde or Alliance, should use it.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
11890
She rocked him. She was seconds from killing Thrall and destroying Orgrimmar when Kalecgos arrived to talk her out of it.
Well if rocked him means, having Thrall hold a massive tidal with his shaman abilities which was leaving him wide open for an attack, while Jaina still having her deus ex machina iris. Than yeah she sure rocked him. :/
Reply Quote
100 Human Death Knight
12135
Well if rocked him means, having Thrall hold a massive tidal with his shaman abilities which was leaving him wide open for an attack, while Jaina still having her deus ex machina iris. Than yeah she sure rocked him. :/


It's part of his own narration that he's amazed he could even stand up to her with the power she was channeling from the Focusing Iris. If he was going all-in, he still wouldn't have had a chance.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
11890
08/30/2013 10:11 AMPosted by Caliginous
Well if rocked him means, having Thrall hold a massive tidal with his shaman abilities which was leaving him wide open for an attack, while Jaina still having her deus ex machina iris. Than yeah she sure rocked him. :/


It's part of his own narration that he's amazed he could even stand up to her with the power she was channeling from the Focusing Iris. If he was going all-in, he still wouldn't have had a chance.
I'm sure he would'nt have been able to beat her on his own with the iris. To me it just feels cheap to resort to tricks like that to win a fight and it undermines her power.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Rogue
7485
I am a Jaina fan, and I support everything she does because she has a reason behind her actions, and reading books that involve her, she is one of the most well developed and thought out characters in the game.

She truly believed that Kalimdor was the promise land, she saved hundreds of humans(and High Elves) by leading them over.

Don't forget she killed her own dad so that the Orcs could survive, because again. She thought peace would be capable.

She helped save Garrosh's daddy's life, why do people constantly overlook this?

All she wanted was Dustwallow Marsh and a safe haven so that she had regular peace negotiationswith Thrall, and things were going good.

She knew that Horde and Alliance working together would be the best solution in taking down Icecrown Citadel(Did she blame the Forsaken for the plague-ing of Wrathgate? Nope. She saved Sylvanas and Thrall from getting roflstomp'd by Varian) She did see however that Garrosh was a tyrant.

When Garrosh became Warchief, Jaina ramped up her defenses like any person would because she feared of his incompetence as a leader. Canada and America for example. Imagine if all of a sudden one of those countries elected a tyrannical war monger/dictator as lead of their country. The other would respond by ramping up their defenses naturally.

Jaina was warned by Baine and (if I'm not mistaken) Vol'jin about the attack that was coming to Theramore and she only had enough time to get some allies(Shandris, Vereesa and Rhonin for example) to help her.

The whole issue with Thalen Songweaver, a presumed Sunreaver who was a Horde spy, later rescued before the 'real attack'. Jaina had no idea of this mana bomb.

Theramore gets bombed, Rhonin is killed. Jaina goes insane and summons a gigantic tidal wave of water elementals and others to basically completely wipe out Orgrimmar, Kalec talks her out of it and once again the Orcs are spared. She could've literally killed THOUSANDS of Horde(and finally get rid of the infinite orc theory), but she doesn't.

Jaina becomes the head of the Kirin Tor and STILL allows the Horde to be in Dalaran because she has that small little beacon of hope still, but she holds them on a tighter leash, which is acknowledged during the scenario where the Sunreavers steal the bell from Darnassus, use Dalaran to transport it to Orgrimmar. Sidenote; the bell was a weapon of mass destruction, and was placed in Darnassus so that the Highborne could study it, and keep it there for safe keeping so that Garrosh wouldn't be able to use it. Realize at this point, Jaina is starting to regret killing her father immensely.

After Jaina finds out is when she realizes that she can no longer trust the Horde, feeling like a doormat. Thus, her actions in Dalaran were completely justified. Either go to prison, or get killed. The Sunreavers had outright betrayed her and the rest of the Kirin Tor.

During the attack on the Throne she comes face to face with Lor'themar where the both of them are talked down by Taran Zhu. Jaina did say there will be no peace until Garrosh isn't the lead any longer.

So now we have Jaina aiding in the assault on Orgrimmar to rid Garrosh as Warchief because that little sliver left within her is still hoping for peace.

I honestly don't understand the amount of hate she gets. Everything that has been done to her, her actions, are completely called for in what she does.
Reply Quote

-The question "Who came first? Titan or Old God" will be answered in the future.
-The Klaxxi are simply in Orgrimmar hoping Garrosh resurrects their master, Y'shaaraj.
-The Draenei are due for some lore.
-Rexxar was going to be in Battlefield: Barrens, but Blizz ran of time.


Awesome.

Awesome.

Awesome.

THAT WOULD HAVE MADE MORE SENSE. God I hate Thrall and his inconsistancies.

ALSO THE SNAKE TAIL GUY. THAT WAS A GOOD QUESTION KOSAK. WHY WAS THERE A SNAKE TAIL?
Reply Quote
100 Orc Mage
12870
I honestly don't understand the amount of hate she gets. Everything that has been done to her, her actions, are completely called for in what she does.


Yeah I don't get it either. I have never seen any criticism of her that isn't nonsensical and dumb. Typically people whining about her haven't actually paid attention to the story.

A common one I see is that she "went off the deep end" and "turned into a b----". To me, there's something vaguely sociopathic about behaving as if someone shouldn't be affected by the destruction of one's home and the mass murder of most people they know.
Edited by Surkesh on 8/30/2013 11:52 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Shaman
13460
I just think her redesign is hilarious.

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2012/june/jainaCompare.jpg

Her actions are, normally, reasonable - even though I question her love interests. A Sun King, a Lich King, and a Dragon Aspect.
Edited by Apahote on 8/30/2013 12:06 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Orc Mage
12870
Her actions are, normally, reasonable - even though I question her love interests. A Sun King, a Lich King, and a Dragon Aspect.


It's no stranger than what RPers often do.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Shaman
13460
08/30/2013 12:07 PMPosted by Surkesh
Her actions are, normally, reasonable - even though I question her love interests. A Sun King, a Lich King, and a Dragon Aspect.


It's no stranger than what RPers often do.


I hold Chris Metzen and Christie Golden to a higher standard than those in the Stormwind Cathedral.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Rogue
7485
Her actions are, normally, reasonable - even though I question her love interests. A Sun King, a Lich King, and a Dragon Aspect.


To be fair Kael had a crush on her and she turned him down and was in a relationship with Arthas when he was still, yanno, normal. And for some reason Kalec has a crush on her too, like he had on the Sunwell. I think he might have a small man complex, if you get my drift.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Shaman
13460
08/30/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Snootie
Her actions are, normally, reasonable - even though I question her love interests. A Sun King, a Lich King, and a Dragon Aspect.


To be fair Kael had a crush on her and she turned him down and was in a relationship with Arthas when he was still, yanno, normal. And for some reason Kalec has a crush on her too, like he had on the Sunwell. I think he might have a small man complex, if you get my drift.


You have to admit that it's a bit silly, even as a Jaina admirer, that they force her into those situations. Being arm-candy to a dragon was sort of the last straw, for me. I expected more from Christie Golden.
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Death Knight
17445
You have to admit that it's a bit silly, even as a Jaina admirer, that they force her into those situations. Being arm-candy to a dragon was sort of the last straw, for me. I expected more from Christie Golden.
What? She's not arm-candy to a dragon. if anything the Dragon is the one who's the Arm-candy.

And really, their romance isn't that outlandish. They both have the comomnality of being practitioners of magic,and they were both leaders who lost their place in the changing world (and later found it again)

They're more natural together than Thrall and Aggra.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I don't know about you but every one of those blood elves aggroed me. I simply acted in self-defense.

Comparing it to Kristallnacht is silly and a little offensive because Jaina's acts were done to defend Dalaran from those who would and did betray it. She also couldn't really afford to be selective at the time. Doesn't help that Garrosh knew the Blood Elves were having talks with Varian about re-joining the Alliance. Until the Divine Bell's theft, Jaina was content for Dalaran to be a beacon of hope and cooperation between Alliance and Horde races. The theft of the Divine Bell forced her hand.

Kristallnacht was something else entirely, especially when considering its historical context. Hitler had no intentions for the Jews beyond complete, systematic eradication. Unlike with Dalaran, it was just a step of an insidious plan.


Leaving aside the debate about Godwin's Law, I think what we have here is a disconnect because the Alliance version of what happened in Dalaran and the Horde version of what happened in Dalaran are wildly different. Which is a failure, in my opinion, on the part of the devs, as it gives two completely different impressions of what is going on.

In the Alliance version, the Blood Elves are armed, and in several cases aggro on you before you even do anything.

In the Horde version, none of the Blood Elves outside of the soldiers you bring with you are armed, and in underground section, they are, to a last, cowering in abject fear and trying to run away from the High Elves who appear to be ruthlessly slaughtering them. They also all appear to be helpless civilians who would give themselves up, but...yeah. The High Elves aren't interested in them surrendering.

To my knowledge, what the Horde players experience is not reflected by what the Alliance players experience, and unless you have played both versions of the questline, it can be very confusing when one side or the other starts going, "But they are slaughtering innocents!" And the other is like, "Hey, they all attacked me, I didn't slaughter no innocents!"

It's just, quite honestly, terrible storytelling on the part of Blizzard.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Rogue
16870
Blizzard has done a blue dragon falling in love with a spirit healer.

I think the blue dragons just have weird taste in romance.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]