Holy Healing in ICC

84 Blood Elf Paladin
4250
Maybe it's because my mana pool, but I'm able to use FoL for the entirety of a fight (deathwhisper, lootship, BQ, Sindy). With the exception of the LK. I use my heals appropriately though, I'll use DL before Festergut does his plague so the tank has a decent shield buffer along with my Hand of Sacrifice. The only place I find I really need to use LoD is when Koralon does his flame spin of doom (tm) or when %VoA frost boss% has too much raid damage going out. I've found no reason to need to use LoD frequently, and (while not important) using FoL I still top healing meters, just under resto druids. I know the playstyle will have to change come Cata, but for now I've got a working scenario. I'll probably reforge to more spirit, as my haste is fine where it is at (it hovers around 690, over 700 raid buffed). Again, gear may be creating the difference in opinion/playstyle.
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100 Human Paladin
7210
Im sorry but it really pains me to see how many people are wrong in this forums, you should not be reforging into hast seeing as hast come cata is almost useless for holy because over half of our spells are instant and your just wasting a stat. secondly you should only have to use Divine light about 3x per raid dont add it into your rotation as stated abouve FOL gives you almost the same effect without having to change your rotation. Secondly playing on beta and hardmodes current wow you never spam holy light for maximum healing, its completly useless even if you cap out hast which is BAD!. The current and best healing rotation would be Using holy shock every cooldown/proc(instant=no need for hast) then after every holy shock you need to holy light(This is when you holy light because if its casting time becomes slower especially if you have t10 4pc which became usefull after patch- being caped hast would make these such talents useless). After that you would word of glory or you flash of light till you got holy shock back. Evem though flash of light cost alot of mana you wont be waitnig on Holy shock proc long so you wont be using it long and the healing from it is so much better then holy light its worth it. Doing this rotation you should be able to get through fights pretty well with not having to worry about mana much.On beta and live i see many healers reforging hast for mastery and crit for spirit, there is an amount of hast you want to keep but im not sure on the exact number but geming/forging hast makes many of your spells/talents become completly useless.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3940
Thanks for the great input guys!! This has helped me immensely.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7975
Your basic healing rotation for mixed hpm/hps balance is

(Assuming beacon on tank)

HS:Raid, DL:Tank, FOL:Tank, WOG:Raid

(Raid = any player including tank whereas Tank = beaconed tank)

If Infusion of Light procs

HS:Raid, DL:Tank, HL:Tank, WOG:Raid

If you get daybreak procs, feel free to break rotation and mix HS and DL's together (Interleaving is good as each holy shock will speed up the following DL).

Light of Dawn when appropriate, but its only really useful on fights where clusterd players are taking dmg together (Infest for example).

Gearing:

Haste soft cap is 1019 (IIRC) which will get you your 1 second GCD with JoP up.

Reforging:

Crit/hit:
Gear with spirit and no haste = haste
Gear with haste and no spirit = spirit
Gear with haste and spirit = mastery or crit

Gems:

Pretty much full int, it's still our strongest stat.

Trinkets:

Solace, Purified Lunar Dust and Meteorite Crystal are you best bets (i.e. spirit buffing trinkets or mana return ones). Trinkets with a lot of Int such as Althor's Abacus are good too.

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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7975
Im sorry but it really pains me to see how many people are wrong in this forum


And then you go to say all that. Irony.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7975
Im sorry but it really pains me to see how many people are wrong in this forums, you should not be reforging into hast seeing as hast come cata is almost useless for holy because over half of our spells are instant and your just wasting a stat.


Even instant casts are subject to GCD restrictions. For the moment, the GCD soft cap remains a worthwhile goal and the overall cast speed increase on DL, HL, and FOL make haste still a great stat.

secondly you should only have to use Divine light about 3x per raid dont add it into your rotation as stated abouve FOL gives you almost the same effect without having to change your rotation.


HS hasted DL gives better HPM and HPS than FOL. If you're healing heroic 25s, you'll find this out in short order.

Secondly playing on beta and hardmodes current wow you never spam holy light for maximum healing, its completly useless even if you cap out hast which is BAD!.


IoL hasted HL is higher HPM and HPS than FoL. Never cast HL immediately after HS as it will consume both the speed proc and the IoL proc.

The current and best healing rotation would be Using holy shock every cooldown/proc(instant=no need for haste)


Holy Shock is on GCD, and therefore subject to the .5 second delay between 1 second GCD and 1.5 second GCD.


then after every holy shock you need to holy light(This is when you holy light because if its casting time becomes slower especially if you have t10 4pc which became usefull after patch- being caped hast would make these such talents useless).


T10 p4c bonus applies to next holy light cast within 10 seconds, that means you can hold off up to 10 seconds without losing the speed bonus from the tier 4pc.

Never cast HL immediately after HS unless there is no damage to speak of. You get better throughput casting a HS hasted DL followed by the HL. The order in which the proc buffs are consumed is important.


After that you would word of glory or you flash of light till you got holy shock back.


If you've done it right, you have 3 hp from HS/2TOR, and WoG is your best choice if you want to squeeze in another heal before next HS. Act as appropriate to damage/mechanics/movement.


Even though flash of light cost a lot of mana you wont be waiting on Holy shock proc long so you wont be using it long and the healing from it is so much better then holy light its worth it.


Divine Light is better HPM, not as fast as FoL, and gives better shields and return on investment than FoL.


Doing this rotation you should be able to get through fights pretty well with not having to worry about mana much.On beta and live i see many healers reforging hast for mastery and crit for spirit, there is an amount of hast you want to keep but im not sure on the exact number but geming/forging hast makes many of your spells/talents become completly useless.


Sigh. You're wasting your Beta access.
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100 Human Paladin
7210
Even instant casts are subject to GCD restrictions. For the moment, the GCD soft cap remains a worthwhile goal and the overall cast speed increase on DL, HL, and FOL make haste still a great stat.

haste is a very usefull stat and you should have gcd soft cap but stated before by somone else was that he should be reforging and even geming some hast to reach cap.
HS hasted DL gives better HPM and HPS than FOL. If you're healing heroic 25s, you'll find this out in short order.

Your compeltly correct about this it does, but it does in the long run cost more mana then FOL and if your other healers are doing there jobs the heal overheals by way to much and that is why many peopel prefer going for FOL. if you were healing a target dummy and looking for the max out put then your completly correct and my idea goes out the window but thats not the case and i have been testing this on 25man HM and beta for weeks.
Holy Shock is on GCD, and therefore subject to the .5 second delay between 1 second GCD and 1.5 second GCD.

As i said before, all i was saying was that when he said hast was the most important stat he was wrong and every srs raider knows you want the GCD soft cap.
T10 p4c bonus applies to next holy light cast within 10 seconds, that means you can hold off up to 10 seconds without losing the speed bonus from the tier 4pc.

Never cast HL immediately after HS unless there is no damage to speak of. You get better throughput casting a HS hasted DL followed by the HL. The order in which the proc buffs are consumed is important.
You are correct about that and there is nothing i can say against doing so. with hasted DL you would get a larger hps and its a waste to use both procs.
Divine Light is better HPM, not as fast as FoL, and gives better shields and return on investment than FoL.

Because you dont have to worry about hast as much from using Fol more often then DL you are able to reforge into Mastery allowing all heals to give larger shields.Both are the same idea in the end FOL just leaves you with a lesser heal which dsnt sound good when your thinking HPS/HPM.
And dont get me wrong I agree with the way your healing and gearing that is probably why 2 of my 3paladins have hast gear reforged for sprit but im just going from what i have found from live testing.
But i dont agree with 90% of the complete bs answers that some people keep posting. In another threat exactly like this one the person was insructed to beacon himself and Crusader strike bosses and to only cast word of glory and holy shock and he said he would try it, there are many other forums like this since the patch.
Before anyone takes any advice from somone they should check there raiding achiviments and world of logs. 2replys in this post have never seen out of first wing atleast on there paladin alt.
Sigh. You're wasting your Beta access
lol your funny.
Edited by Cbear on 11/10/2010 11:18 PM PST
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
2045

7. When used correctly, the Holy Paladin toolset is awesome...more awesome than even a druid. I blow away most of the druids I'm raiding with, and I'm seldom OOM now. Yet, I hear druids popping innervate and then OOM a LOT more than ever before. Don't ask a Tree for an innervate these days...they already used it on themselves.

8. One part of the rotation seems to be a problem for me...I'm not using Divine Light much at all. It sucks mana, and it's only marginally bigger than Flash of Light, and it takes forever to land. FoL is big and now. I'd like to see Divine Light reworked into a HUGE heal (as in twice FoL in 1.5 times the cast speed), or turn it into a big HOT over a long period of time.


Finally...remember something. WoW is different now. We're not in the WotLK model any more. Everything's different, and if we continue to put our comparisons together with old models, there's going to be a lot of frustration and anxiety with your numbers. A suggestion? Turn Recount off and heal the fight. It really doesn't matter right now if you top the charts or not. What matters (wait...didn't it always?) is that people don't die, bosses go down, and epic lewtz get distributed. In my opinion, Holy Paladin is the best healer class in the game now.

Comments and suggestions are welcome...

Pernik
GM - Everlasting Salvation (Christian Guild, Alexstrasza)

I heal, therefore you am!


I like hearing this. I haven't healed any raids due to my mediocre gear, but healing heroics has been a blast and very easy. Again I can't give an opinion on raids, but seeing my healing in dungeons and being told I'm a good healer gives me hope that I will be able to move to raids and seeing comments like yours enforces this hope :) I thoroughly enjoy pally healing now.
I couldn't agree more about turning recount off. Right now isn't the time to be comparing numbers, we have many patches to come and an entire new expansion Im positive numbers will change come 85 and people are stressing out too much on 80 stats.
I say wait till cata and 85 before we start assuming Holy can't keep up.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10165
A couple of days ago I tried to heal ICC-10 with my guildies. 2 holy paladins healing, neither of whom had raid-healed since the patch.

We wiped. Repeatedly. On Heroic lootship. Simply could not keep the away tank up, no matter what we did. Divine Light, as people have pointed out, wasn't hitting nearly fast enough to do the job, and it felt like there was an eternity between Holy Shock casts.

But of course, I was using Holy Light instead of Flash of Light. I figured I'd need the mana, with all the DPS using alts.

Back to the drawing board...
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You should be reforging all your crit into either spirit or haste.
Oh, enchants = omgpro
And about your spec, you shouldn't spec into Last Word, put those 2 talent points in 1/1 Aura Mastery and 2/2 Improved Judgement.
I at least am doing a Divine Light spam with HS on CD and throwing a Word of Glory here and there, but I don't know how that would work with your gear.


Would it be wrong to reforge for mastery? That's what I've been doing and I've only barely been beaten out by a resto druid on a consistent basis. I'm almost always #2 in heals and #2 in overhealing and, barring a disc priest, #1 in absorbs.


You should be reforging spirit or haste.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10165
A couple of days ago I tried to heal ICC-10 with my guildies. 2 holy paladins healing, neither of whom had raid-healed since the patch.

We wiped. Repeatedly. On Heroic lootship. Simply could not keep the away tank up, no matter what we did. Divine Light, as people have pointed out, wasn't hitting nearly fast enough to do the job, and it felt like there was an eternity between Holy Shock casts.

But of course, I was using Holy Light instead of Flash of Light. I figured I'd need the mana, with all the DPS using alts.

Back to the drawing board...


This isn't a dig, so sorry if it comes out as one...but if you're wiping to the damage on (H)lootship 10m, than either you have the worst tank ever, or he's still in mostly blues.

The only other option is that you and your guild mate have no clue how to play. If your tank is dying repeatedly, and you're NOT switching your style to accommodate, than yea, it was both the pallys fault. Mana conservation does not trump downing a boss ever. I can solo heal that fight as a pally, while watching tv, and tabbing out occasionally.


Like I said, it was the first time either of us had been raid-healing post patch. We only put in about three attempts - we had this one pug DPS who started cussing everybody out the moment we ran into trouble, so nobody really felt like putting up with it for long.
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