Shaman Heals

90 Dwarf Priest
15695
Except Blizzard, from a design stand point, considers things from a cosmetic stand point while considering them from a gameplay stand point.

Think back to Blizzcon when they talked about their color schemes a bit. Green is nature, but Yellowish-green is Fel. Red is demonic, and so on and so forth.

Deep blue is frost. Blizzard probably doesn't sit well with the idea of a new player getting confused and thinking they're counter spelling a shaman out of their "water school" when they're really taking out the nature school.

And you all know that if it was just a cosmetic change as you said there would be dumb shaman coming onto the forums and complaining about not being able to cast Lightning bolt or Earth shock or something when their heals are countered.
Lightning Bolt isn't green. :o
I think a blue would be nice for the heals. Makes as much sense as green fire!
85 Draenei Shaman
10485

Although, I think chain heal is fine as it is; it was yellow in wc3 after all.


chain heal was actually called healing wave, and was yellow wasn't it?
85 Troll Shaman
5645
/sign
80 Night Elf Druid
1320
Except Blizzard, from a design stand point, considers things from a cosmetic stand point while considering them from a gameplay stand point.

Think back to Blizzcon when they talked about their color schemes a bit. Green is nature, but Yellowish-green is Fel. Red is demonic, and so on and so forth.

Deep blue is frost. Blizzard probably doesn't sit well with the idea of a new player getting confused and thinking they're counter spelling a shaman out of their "water school" when they're really taking out the nature school.

And you all know that if it was just a cosmetic change as you said there would be dumb shaman coming onto the forums and complaining about not being able to cast Lightning bolt or Earth shock or something when their heals are countered.
Lightning Bolt isn't green. :o
I think a blue would be nice for the heals. Makes as much sense as green fire!


It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "lightning" school. So...
90 Dwarf Priest
15695
Except Blizzard, from a design stand point, considers things from a cosmetic stand point while considering them from a gameplay stand point.

Think back to Blizzcon when they talked about their color schemes a bit. Green is nature, but Yellowish-green is Fel. Red is demonic, and so on and so forth.

Deep blue is frost. Blizzard probably doesn't sit well with the idea of a new player getting confused and thinking they're counter spelling a shaman out of their "water school" when they're really taking out the nature school.

And you all know that if it was just a cosmetic change as you said there would be dumb shaman coming onto the forums and complaining about not being able to cast Lightning bolt or Earth shock or something when their heals are countered.
Lightning Bolt isn't green. :o
I think a blue would be nice for the heals. Makes as much sense as green fire!


It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "lightning" school. So...
So there is precedent for nature spells being blue. :3
90 Blood Elf Warlock
12880

It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "lightning" school. So...


So... kinda the exact same thing as a blue heal would be, huh?

Blizzard probably doesn't sit well with the idea of a new player getting confused and thinking they're counter spelling a shaman out of their "water school" when they're really taking out the nature school.


It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "water" school. So...
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8995
Except Blizzard, from a design stand point, considers things from a cosmetic stand point while considering them from a gameplay stand point.

Think back to Blizzcon when they talked about their color schemes a bit. Green is nature, but Yellowish-green is Fel. Red is demonic, and so on and so forth.

Deep blue is frost. Blizzard probably doesn't sit well with the idea of a new player getting confused and thinking they're counter spelling a shaman out of their "water school" when they're really taking out the nature school.

And you all know that if it was just a cosmetic change as you said there would be dumb shaman coming onto the forums and complaining about not being able to cast Lightning bolt or Earth shock or something when their heals are countered.


Fel is actually just straight up green most of the time. Just like poison it would easily be confused with nature spells.

I remember hearing that from blizzcon and thinking that blizzard was just making up a reason on the spot. If they are really worried about new players getting confused but green fire they have a lot of work to do to make the colors they use on spells throughout the game consistent.

I doubt blizzard wants to reuse spell effects but I think they should at least limit the reuse to mob effects or spells within the same class. The orginal post mentions priests and paladins but they have shared spell effects also, even our new heal word of glory, shares a spell effect with circle of healing right now. I don't want to go into "us poor healers are always stepped on" mode, but does mind spike look like shadow bolt? Do fireball and incinerate look the same? Ice lance and frost bolt are both frost spells but look different. The way a spell looks matters for healers too.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11220
I think that shaman heals should be blue. Since shamans heals with the element of water, (the nature ones i suppose can be green) and the color of water is blue, the heals should be blue for shamans.

/sign


Technically the color of water is not blue :p
85 Draenei Shaman
10485
where I live, water is greenish actually, or mud colored at low tide.
85 Draenei Shaman
13420
Blue is my favorite color.

Probably the reason my shaman is my main. Blue heals...kind of weird, but still badass.

+1!

Actually I think I'll go with anything that isn't the same graphic as another class. Like them tree-huggers.
80 Night Elf Druid
1320

It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "lightning" school. So...


So... kinda the exact same thing as a blue heal would be, huh?

Blizzard probably doesn't sit well with the idea of a new player getting confused and thinking they're counter spelling a shaman out of their "water school" when they're really taking out the nature school.


It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "water" school. So...


Yes there is, Frost. It's acceptable for Lightning because there is no lightning school. There is however a Frost school. I'm sorry, I thought that one was obvious.
90 Orc Shaman
7550

It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "lightning" school. So...


So... kinda the exact same thing as a blue heal would be, huh?

Blizzard probably doesn't sit well with the idea of a new player getting confused and thinking they're counter spelling a shaman out of their "water school" when they're really taking out the nature school.


It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "water" school. So...


Yes there is, Frost. It's acceptable for Lightning because there is no lightning school. There is however a Frost school. I'm sorry, I thought that one was obvious.


Why are you fighting this so hard? lol Shamans heal with water, no? The color of water is blue no? Heals=Blue
80 Night Elf Druid
1320

It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "lightning" school. So...


So... kinda the exact same thing as a blue heal would be, huh?

Blizzard probably doesn't sit well with the idea of a new player getting confused and thinking they're counter spelling a shaman out of their "water school" when they're really taking out the nature school.


It's also accepted as a part of the nature school because there is no "water" school. So...


Yes there is, Frost. It's acceptable for Lightning because there is no lightning school. There is however a Frost school. I'm sorry, I thought that one was obvious.


Why are you fighting this so hard? lol Shamans heal with water, no? The color of water is blue no? Heals=Blue


What makes you think I'm fighting it? I said right in my first post I think it would be nice.

However if you don't want to hear valid reasons that Blizzard does, in fact, consider, then how is there going to be a logical discussion on it?
80 Blood Elf Warlock
2820
This is true. Blue Shammy Heals would be pretty epic. Would be even more epic if the Elemental and Enhancement Shammys couldn't out-heal 10 peoples DPS. Wink wink. ;)
90 Blood Elf Warlock
12880

Yes there is, Frost. It's acceptable for Lightning because there is no lightning school. There is however a Frost school. I'm sorry, I thought that one was obvious.


/facepalm
moving on....



Let me just propose how this simple cosmetic change could work, for those who are over-thinking/over-complicating things.

I think it is pretty well accepted that Shaman healing spells are based on water (spell/talent names). All that is being proposed is a visual change on the casting and spell effects to reflect this. Riptide and GHW have already been given more appropriate watery spell hit animations (and Healing Rain), while Healing Wave and Healing Surge still have the green leaf hit animation. Blue/Water themed glowing hands would be a also part of such visual updates. This doesn't effect anything except what the spells look like, everything is still a Nature school spell. This would even make things more consistent across Shaman nature school spells, as Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning already have a Blue glowing hands cast color (with a lightning themed appearance). The healing spells could easily be the same color, but with a more appropriate 'watery' texture. Shaman nature school = blue cast effects. I would also say Hex and Bind Elemental should be changed to have a blue effect for consistency, and I think having those two rarer used spells a bit thematically off would be much better than having the entire healing arsenal off base. Oh, Earthquake too I suppose. I don't have any specific ideas/changes for Chain Heal, other than simply keeping the color of the hand glow to the same blue/watery animation (the sewage colored beam is fine with me as is but I'd be very open to hearing some ideas o.O).

For some reason whenever this idea is brought up, we're back in vanilla again and the only way to tell if somebody is casting a heal in pvp is to focus in on the feint glow coming from their hands. Enemy cast bars are part of the default UI now, you know exactly what spell is being cast. The hand glow isn't the only way to ID a spell school; and in this case anything blue would indicate nature school anyway. Even if somebody were to be misinformed and think they were interrupting a non-existent "water" school of magic, their only problem would be in what they are calling the school of magic they are locking. They are at no disadvantage, healing and offensive nature spells would be locked out. It seems more of a mental block people have that Nature school MUST be green, which isn't and hasn't been the case for quite some time. And there are also many water themed spells that are Nature spells, for those who have the mental block that anything blue must be a frost spell.

Hopefully I've been able to address the potential problems that blue/water themed Shaman spell effects could present, while giving a good jumping off point as to how to make it happen (rather than just "bloo heals plz" or "/signed"). And obviously this isn't a huge pressing issue.. balancing classes / tuning the new Cata raid encounters are the important things. But it would be a nice update to the class and is something that would be very fitting. And it would probably be a lot more welcome than a new riptide spell icon, just sayin' :P Sparkle
80 Night Elf Druid
1320

For some reason whenever this idea is brought up, we're back in vanilla again and the only way to tell if somebody is casting a heal in pvp is to focus in on the feint glow coming from their hands. Enemy cast bars are part of the default UI now, you know exactly what spell is being cast.


Judging by Blizzard's comments on colour themes at Blizzcon, I think it still matters a great deal to Blizzard what color spell effects are. It's also a goal of theirs to make battles, particularly PVP battles, easier to follow for those un-initiated to the game. Consistent spell animations are important for that.

Even if somebody were to be misinformed and think they were interrupting a non-existent "water" school of magic, their only problem would be in what they are calling the school of magic they are locking. They are at no disadvantage, healing and offensive nature spells would be locked out.


Except it would still be a confusion; it wouldn't make sense for the frost/water school to block out lightning spells, Earth Shock or Wind Shear.

Every magic-based class has two primary schools of magic they go with. Shaman are kind of an exception because of what their class is. Perhaps it would be more apt(but a screw up of game balance?) if heals were just moved over to the frost tree.
14 Dwarf Hunter
30
and fix the earth shield thing i mentioned in the shaman forums (earth shield and earthliving weapon should both be changed to water shield and waterliving, and make our regen shield life or mana shield or something)
90 Blood Elf Warlock
12880

For some reason whenever this idea is brought up, we're back in vanilla again and the only way to tell if somebody is casting a heal in pvp is to focus in on the feint glow coming from their hands. Enemy cast bars are part of the default UI now, you know exactly what spell is being cast.

Judging by Blizzard's comments on colour themes at Blizzcon, I think it still matters a great deal to Blizzard what color spell effects are. It's also a goal of theirs to make battles, particularly PVP battles, easier to follow for those un-initiated to the game. Consistent spell animations are important for that.


If you read I actually described how such a change would actually be MORE consistent than it currently is. Right now Shaman have green for heals and blue for lightning bolt / chain lightning (and even a few healing hit effects too), while all part of the same nature school. Such a change would make everything the same for a Shaman (ie, more consistent and easier to follow).
Are you trying to argue that Shaman healing spell animations have to be consistent with Druid healing spell animations? Or that all Nature school spells must be the same (which isn't even true right now)? How about some sort of consistency among the Shaman spells themselves in terms of their names and visuals?

Even if somebody were to be misinformed and think they were interrupting a non-existent "water" school of magic, their only problem would be in what they are calling the school of magic they are locking. They are at no disadvantage, healing and offensive nature spells would be locked out.

Except it would still be a confusion; it wouldn't make sense for the frost/water school to block out lightning spells, Earth Shock or Wind Shear.


It wouldn't make sense for the [nature school] to block out [nature school spells]?

Why is it so beyond you that water themed spells are part of the nature school? You seem to equate any water themed spell to frost which is flat out incorrect. Water shield isn't a frost spell. Hurricane isn't a frost spell. Riptide isn't a frost spell. Healing Rain isn't a frost spell. Every other Shaman heal aren't frost spells. The Frost school isn't the frost/water school, its the frost school. And the Nature school isn't the nature/water school either... there are water themed spells that fall into both. The nature school is pretty broad in general in the thematic types of spells in includes.

Your new player confusion scenario doesn't make sense. They would pick up and learn after it happened 1 or 2 times, no different than any other aspect of the game.
Edited by Gariplox on 11/8/2010 10:57 AM PST
100 Human Paladin
5765
The other question that could be asked is what is wrong with categorizing the heals as frost? After all, casting LB when interrupted could be seen as similar to a priest casting MB when interrupted.
68 Draenei Shaman
840
I agree with this. All our healing spells are mostly the element of water so makes since to make them blue. Priests are yellow/white (for the light), Druids are green (for nature), seems smart to make Shaman blue ( for the element of water).
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