The Forsaken are Good People

The Forsaken and Lordaeron are an interesting thought exercise. While yes, most of them are former Lordaeron Humans who, y'know, died and didn't have much of a choice in the matter, there are some survivors who remain living in Stormwind and other human kingdoms. Many of these survivors also own land there, if they did in fact own land.

Yes, the Forsaken have right to Lordaeron, but so do the Lordaeron Survivors, and Varian saw some pretty nasty stuff in the Undercity, all that together equals war for Lordaeron.
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85 Orc Death Knight
9555
They have every right to lordaeron, being that they owned it in life. Varian stayed there for a week... He has no claim to what was never his. Sylvanas' enemies know what they're facing when they came to her lands, they know the risk of war. She is using the valkyr to ensure her people's survival. Yes, she may do in a not-so-pleasant manner, but its not her duty to serve her enemies people. Perhaps if the crusade/alliance let the forsaken be, there would be no need for the valkyr?


With almost everything except the title of this thread, I completely agree with you.

The Forsaken are not good people, not because they chose to be but because they have to be and regardless of who they are Lordaeron does belong to them; not the humans of Stormwind or anyone else.
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85 Worgen Death Knight
9675
[quote]On a serious note, wouldnt it also belong to all the people who fled Lordaeron? What about Gilneas? Did that belong to them? Or Silverpine? That, atleast from what I can gather, was part of Gilneas before the wall went up, didnt it? Though, I do admit I have yet to play any part of Cataclysm, so my information may be wrong.[quote]

Pryewood was part of Gilneas, the rest was Lordaeron.
Edited by Dknvd on 11/6/2010 12:40 AM PDT
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85 Orc Death Knight
9555
They have every right to lordaeron, being that they owned it in life. Varian stayed there for a week... He has no claim to what was never his. Sylvanas' enemies know what they're facing when they came to her lands, they know the risk of war. She is using the valkyr to ensure her people's survival. Yes, she may do in a not-so-pleasant manner, but its not her duty to serve her enemies people. Perhaps if the crusade/alliance let the forsaken be, there would be no need for the valkyr?


With almost everything except the title of this thread, I completely agree with you.

The Forsaken are not good people, not because they chose to be but because they have to be and regardless of who they are Lordaeron does belong to them; not the humans of Stormwind or anyone else.


On a serious note, wouldnt it also belong to all the people who fled Lordaeron? What about Gilneas? Did that belong to them? Or Silverpine? That, atleast from what I can gather, was part of Gilneas before the wall went up, didnt it? Though, I do admit I have yet to play any part of Cataclysm, so my information may be wrong.


You're not wrong at all; you make a very good counter argument.

The remaining people of Silverpine are mostly with the Kirin'tor who have moved to Northrend and well Gilneas decided to isolate itself from Lordaeron long ago. The denizens of Lordaeron are now the Forsaken, and control most of the land.

The Gilneans did nothing to defend Lordaeron from the Scourge, therefor no doubt in the eyes of the Forsaken they have no claim to it.

You could certainly also make a point with the remaining humans in the Arathi Highlands. The Trollbane line can remain, but they will serve the Forsaken!

http://cata.wowhead.com/npc=41944
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85 Night Elf Druid
4000
To get this thread back to its former derailed glory, I must say, Heyman.... you are all wrong. There is one delicacy that exceeds pie, cake, waffles, and everything else. The true culinary king is quite obviously COBBLER. Blueberry cobbler, peach cobbler... the possibilities are endless and delicious.
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100 Human Mage
9210
The Forsaken are Good People


Wasn't aware it was opposite day...
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
7170
I declare we call all Forsaken threads 'Pastery threads' now, and we talk in code.

Pie = Forsaken
Cake = Sylvanas
Waffles = Lordaeron
Chocolate Milkshake = The Plague
Maple Syrup = Nathanos Blightcaller

I could go on.
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85 Night Elf Druid
4000
Please pay attention, Elenie. The thread title is misleading. This is the pastry thread... where Cobbler is king.

Hmmmmm... is cobbler really a pastry? Perhaps pastry is a bit to restrictive?
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100 Tauren Druid
9960
I declare we call all Forsaken threads 'Pastery threads' now, and we talk in code.
Pie = Forsaken
Cake = Sylvanas
Waffles = Lordaeron
Chocolate Milkshake = The Plague
Maple Syrup = Nathanos Blightcaller
I could go on.


I think you mean BLIGHT.

That would explain the lyrics:
"My milkshake melts all the boys (and girls, men, women, dogs, cats, and other living things muahahaha) in the yard..."
Edited by Bullcowsby on 11/6/2010 8:50 AM PDT
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100 Human Mage
9210
Draniirn...

I came to the Story Forums, an eager mind ready to learn more about the lore through the perspectives of others whom had, like myself, spent hours meticulously learning what lore was relevant to them and any ideas they'd had. I'd come looking forward to discussions on the natural of such enigmatic forces as the Light, the origins and uses of Arcana, how mana plays into the lore, what the inspiration was for the Elementals or beings like the Titans...

And then I learned, this is a forum to be proud of your faction, and to demonize the other at every turn! To make a long speech short, Pie is good, Jello is Bad. Pudding is okay on occassions but otherwise it is evil. And don't get me started on CAKE!

But despite the above, I am a member of the Alliance, and I choose to support my faction. Therefore, I refuse to debase the nature of the already blurred nature of the Story Forums, by -not- bashing on the opposite faction in a presumably witty nature.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
7170

I think you mean BLIGHT.


SHUSH I'M TIRED *curls up in corner in the fetal position*

That would explain the lyrics:
"My milkshake melts all the boys (and girls, men, women, dogs, cats, and other living things muahahaha) in the yard..."


'And they're like,
OH GOD IT BURNS!'
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90 Human Paladin
11055
The Forsaken pretty much completely jumped the shark come Cata and validated everything I said on the old board.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5715
Please pay attention, Elenie. The thread title is misleading. This is the pastry thread... where Cobbler is king.

Hmmmmm... is cobbler really a pastry? Perhaps pastry is a bit to restrictive?


No sir Cobbler is not a pastry. It is in a category between Pastry and Pie. It is its own category.

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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0

With almost everything except the title of this thread, I completely agree with you.

The Forsaken are not good people, not because they chose to be but because they have to be and regardless of who they are Lordaeron does belong to them; not the humans of Stormwind or anyone else.


First off, they are being bad because the choose to be. Forsaken have free will and are capable of discerning what they want to do, and they choose to be evil.

Second, the Humans of Stormwind represent Lordaeron's interests now. Terenas' interests, and those of the refugees and Lordaeron's fallen, who can't act for themselves.

The Forsaken represent the interests of the Scourge, as ironic as that is.
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100 Tauren Druid
9960

Second, the Humans of Stormwind represent Lordaeron's interests now. Terenas' interests, and those of the refugees and Lordaeron's fallen, who can't act for themselves.
The Forsaken represent the interests of the Scourge, as ironic as that is.

(EDIT: Reread it with a different pattern and get what you're saying. They aren't the same interests, they've taken those interests into account, which I've no quarrel over.)

(EDIT: Edit of my question so that it reflects the meaning of Vyrin's post:)

So which interests of the Scourge do the Forsaken represent?
Edited by Bullcowsby on 11/6/2010 9:26 AM PDT
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0

What are these interests, by the way? By stating it this way you're suggesting that they're adopted the others' interests. Stormwind represents Lordaeron's interests - and not Stormwind's? It's not possible that they would happen to have similar interests? The Forsaken represent Scourge interests in what way? I bet if you were to make a list of primary goals and interests, they wouldn't be quite the same as you're indicating.
Superficially, and with a great deal of simplification, everyone in Azeroth has the same interests.


The goal of reclaiming the land, healing it, and making it so that it's livible on it again, and then fighting back the undead invaders so that the people can return home and continue their lives.

The Forsaken want to conquer Lordaeron and raise its denizens into undeath. The Alliance is their primary target, and they seek to keep the land plagued rather than purified.
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100 Tauren Druid
9960
The Forsaken want to conquer Lordaeron and raise its denizens into undeath. The Alliance is their primary target, and they seek to keep the land plagued rather than purified.



But taking "represent" in the way that you were using it, the Forsaken aren't representing Scourge concerns or goals. Those are distinctly their own - they're not doing it on behalf of the Scourge and they've not adopted it because the Scourge wants it and has no power to enact it themselves.

I don't believe I've ever read anything that says the Forsaken want all of Lordaeron's denizens to be undead. They *have* expressed an interest in making sure that they're not threatened by those denizens. This feels like the same specious argument I've heard many make that "the Forsaken want to wipe out all life." This is a generalization of a real goal.

Additionally, they seek to keep the land usable by them. Plagued - yes - to us it is plagued. To them it is USABLE. What use do they have for growing crops? Why do they need green fields and beautiful meadows?

Again, i think with over-simplification any race's goals can be "represented" by another's.
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