I'm here... Let's talk about Shadow Priests

85 Night Elf Rogue
4280
Many of you know me for making many rogue threads. A little known fact is I spend equal time on my priest.


What I'd like to know is what I'm doing wrong as shadow. I went from doing competitive damage to sucking up a storm at 8k DPS in ICC25... That's no bueno. What changed? I'm not doing anything differently.

I might have over done it on Mastery rating. Wat is the best stat currently to reforge? I used to be a haste bot but decided to go for mastery to try it out. Other than that, my rotation has not changed. Should I not cast Mind Blast at all until it lights up?

And my aoe damage is poor as well. I use Mind Sear if there are 5+ adds and I put Pain on all of the adds then Vampiric Touch on one and Mind Sear oif there are less than 5.

What's up? Oh and it HAS to be me since there were two other Priests in the raid one doing 13k and another doing 10k
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90 Night Elf Priest
7310
I'm no expert by any means of the word, but I understand that on live Mastery is worth about 1/3 of haste by weight. So that being said I would try to reforge out of it and you can perdy much lose MS also as it was "balanced" to nutthin. There are changes to Mastery on the horizon, and they sound great, but for now on live try to balance haste and crit, with mostly int gems.
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80 Orc Warlock
1335
The best stat is still haste, MASTERY is terrible on live, don't get it at all. Balance Haste/Crit
Mind Sear was nerfed, if you are tab dotting with SW:P make sure to constantly be moving to proc more Shadow Apparitions. Other than that not a lot changed.
Also your shadowfiend is a DPS cooldown pretty much. With Sin and Punishment it is never down for long and does substantial dmg.
Edited by Fuso on 11/5/2010 11:33 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4280
Thank you guys Both these posts helped a bit. i'll get reforging now.
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85 Tauren Priest
5645
Reforge for haste, unless you're low on crit then reforge into crit. Mastery is only going to be useful at 85 when we have mind spike.

If you're over the hit cap (remember, 100% of our haste contributed through items converts to hit), use that as your first reforge stat, then hit rating.

Fuso is right, tab SWP and SF on cooldown (should also be a part of your opener, as I have found) are two key things.

You can't clip your last dot tick anymore (they just roll on through if you refresh too early).

Keep an eye out for 3xOrb, Mind Blast does huge amounts of damage at 3xOrb

Lastly, SW:D only < 25%, unless you have some open void of ~1.5s where you don't need to refresh dots, and MB is on cooldown (whenever that may be...). The cooldown is setup like Kill Shot, I believe (correct me if I am wrong). You can SW:D up to two times within the "cooldown period" before the cooldown kicks in. So under 25% use SW:D on cooldown and replace it for when you'd use MF when you're thinking about priority, but also keep consideration of your HP if there's a lot of damage going on. 24k crit is great, but if you die from AoE two ticks later, or something, it's not so great.
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90 Night Elf Priest
7310
Reforge for haste, unless you're low on crit then reforge into crit. Mastery is only going to be useful at 85 when we have mind spike.


This is not quite true with the change made a couple days ago that isn't live yet. Mastery will be affecting our DOTS now. It is still in its inception but i believe Mastery will be close to haste b4 lvl 85.
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85 Worgen Priest
7640
There is a point where Mind Sear can start shinning again, but it requires a lot higher mob counts. Yet there is a catch because of that you hit the mob caps rather quickly. It is just not good all around either way you look at it. Some are finding dropping Shadowform and spamming Holy Nova better.

Mastery as it currently is on live is bad. On Beta it is much better. As of right now I would not reforge to Mastery. Beyond that a balance of Haste and Crit is what you will want going forward. These two stats have been neck and neck as far as scaling goes.

Yet again though even so there is a few catches to that. For starters you need less Haste to equal 1% verses Crit. At level 85 you need 128 Haste and crit you need 179. Big disparity there. Even so 1 pt of Crit still isn't that far behind Haste in over all scaling.

Hit I would recommend Spirit as your new Hit stat. Though you can still get Hit gear Spirit gear will give you better flexibility when switching specs and better mana regen outside of combat. Just expect to compete with Healers on it.

Not much more that can be said. Consider all the buffs you are getting? What is your rotation like? Latency? Skill level? etc. Check your keybindings. Many factors come into play in determining why you aren't performing you like you use to or not better.

As I tell people I've trained before in being a Shadow Priest you will try over and over again to get better, but till it clicks and you find your own way of doing things that improves your gameplay you aren't going to really see much improvement. That is after gear, mods, etc are factored in mind you.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4280
Thanks guys.

So basically what I read was stack haste and forego MB altogether until it lights up from mastery.

Tab dot AOE packs with PAIN and DPS one guy down at a time.

Let me know if this is accurate.
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What I want to know is,
Do spirit and hit rating share the same item budget? (like, if a ilvl264's item budget would be all spent on spirit or hit rating, would one value be higher than another)
And
What's the best way to use Mind Flay? Does spamming the button makes you lose dps? (Maybe the last tick is cancelled with a new Mind Flay, I don't really know the mechanic)
I don't have a dps set (only healer) so I'm way over the hitcap, and my spirit is reforged to mastery (because this isn't shadow gear). But I feel like I should do more than 6k-7k dps on good days in heroic dungeons bosses encouters. I do 6k dps in heroic dungeons bosses on my arcane mage if I push myself who is at 3000gs (greens, blues, 2-3 epics) =/

Oh and half my gems were for holy spec (intel/spirit), and I recently changed for disc. I guess I should change that.
Edited by Tiess on 11/6/2010 12:06 AM PDT
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85 Tauren Priest
5875
Do spirit and hit rating share the same item budget?
Yes.
What's the best way to use Mind Flay? Does spamming the button makes you lose dps? (Maybe the last tick is cancelled with a new Mind Flay, I don't really know the mechanic)
I think the original intent for Cataclysm was that DOTs and channeled spells would have a window at the end of their duration at which a new cast would add to the remaining duration instead of overwriting. It works for DOTs, but never made it to the channeled spells. It seems like Shadow Priests and Warlocks will continue to have to focus on making their Mind Flay/Drain Life timing align with their latency.
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90 Human Priest
13020
Mind Sear went from being pretty good DPS to being more like a filler AE - in other words, what you do once all your targets are dotted. So multidot is the way to go with AE, and you'll pull some pretty good numbers once you get the hang of it.
Yes, mastery is bad right now.
You may also check your rotation. There's been some good talk about MB on Shadowpriest.com. Basically, what it boils down to (this is not set in stone, no one's really 100% on this stuff until SimCraft is updated) is that MB with no Shadow Orbs is more DPCT than MF....IF you don't include Shadow Orb procs or Sin and Punishment procs (lowers the CD on Shadowfiend) in your calculation. With that included, it seems that a consensus is building around only using MB when you have at least 1 Orb (the point where MB is better DPS than MF even with the procs included). The difference I've found is pretty small but it does seem to help (I gain around 100-200 DPS personally if I pay a little attention to Orbs versus just MB on CD). Really, this situation only comes up about 11% of the time (where MB is off CD, but you have no orbs).
The elephant in the room, of course, is that at 85, you won't have 4pc t10, which means that MB will always be better DPCT than MF at 85.
Now, I would like to talk about SW:D. I think some people are jumping to conclusions about this spell. It got nerfed a day or two after the patch. Before the patch it was part of the rotation. Now that it is nerfed, basically someone said "hey don't cast this anymore" and it seems everyone just took them at their word and says that. I'm not saying that it should necessarily be part of the rotation or not, but there's much less math out there for that even than for MB. Personally, if I include it, it is a DPS increase. Yeah. Even above 25%. So right now, with everything in flux, you kind of have to experiment and find what works best for you as far as rotation is concerned. This may end up going back in the rotation as well (we may need Masochism to keep our mana up, who knows?) at 85 even if you dump it now. We just don't know yet.

TLDR - check your spec, make sure you are using Shadowfiend on CD and are casting MB again (if you dropped it out of your rotation in 3.3.5) at least with 1 orb up. AE, focus more on multidotting and less on Mind Sear.
Edited by Felade on 11/8/2010 4:17 PM PST
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