Shaman Talents.

90 Troll Shaman
8015
Hello other healers!
I'm a resto shaman, and i was debating if i should switch over to Echo of the Elements from Ancestral Swiftness, AS is probally better, with the 5% haste and the instant cast.
I was just wondering your guy's opinions.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
Most will go with AS/EM. EotE is pretty weak for resto shaman.
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100 Orc Shaman
23695
AS is basically mandatory imo.
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AS is basically mandatory imo.

this

only time I use echo is to massing around with friend in bg,lfr,5man or scenario. I wouldn't bother using echo unless something dramatically changes
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90 Troll Shaman
8015
That's what i thought, i use AS but i was itching to try out Echo, tried it, don't like it in resto.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
8265
EM is wonderful on certain fights drop that with your racials/professions and HTT or healing rain when stacked with PE.
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100 Goblin Shaman
20165
Don't go EoE.

EM is very strong on some fights. AS is also very strong on some fights. If you don't like to manage the cooldown (and are trying to reach a higher breakpoint that you need the 5% passive haste), then you can probably be safe with AS.
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100 Tauren Shaman
HC
18115
I actually prefer EoE on fights where I can spam chain heal(On h.meg progression CH was competing with HR). AS will be used for 90% of the fights, but if CH is a top competing spell, I'd recommend "trying" EoE, but don't sacrifice breakpoints for it.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
AS is taken by about 90% of Resto Shaman mainly because it's generally needed to push the highest available haste breakpoints without the excessive loss of INT/Spirit that gemming pure haste would cause. In particular, next tier, we are going to want to probably start off at 8882 (which you will probably have to run at around 9100 because of totem breakpoint latency issues) for the HST and HTT with Berserking breakpoints, and then eventually get to 15,316 in full heroic gear for the extra HR tick. With Rushing Streams a near mandatory talent next tier, HST is going to be a huge (20-35%) component of our output making totem breakpoints worth going for.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
08/31/2013 07:28 PMPosted by Tiberria
which you will probably have to run at around 9100 because of totem breakpoint latency issues)


Why do you buy the latency thing when it is the only heal in the game that is affected by said excuse? Just wondering really.
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100 Draenei Shaman
16165
It's also the only heal in the game that I can think of ATM that relies on you having to drop an object that then does the healing. While technically Shrooms fall into the same category, they only do a large burst after detonating, rather than a constant pulse. It's simply more input/output before it does the heal.

I'm not entirely convinced on the totem latency thing either, but it's been theorycrafted and talked about enough to at least put it in your mind.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
It's also the only heal in the game that I can think of ATM that relies on you having to drop an object that then does the healing


Pretty sure if follows the same properties of tranq/dh or other channeled spells, but I could be wrong. Which all work just fine. I know that people like to use it as the reason. You'll find the same thing happens a lot well beyond the bp's as well. Which is why I don't buy the latency thing. Made posts on it in the bug forums and ptr forums that have all gone unanswered. If it was something as simple as latency you'd think they's just come out and say it is latency as opposed to saying nothing at all and pretending the issue doesn't exist. Even though we are now almost a year into an expansion and it hasn't been addressed.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
09/01/2013 10:39 AMPosted by Harpoa
It's also the only heal in the game that I can think of ATM that relies on you having to drop an object that then does the healing


Pretty sure if follows the same properties of tranq/dh or other channeled spells, but I could be wrong. Which all work just fine. I know that people like to use it as the reason. You'll find the same thing happens a lot well beyond the bp's as well. Which is why I don't buy the latency thing. Made posts on it in the bug forums and ptr forums that have all gone unanswered. If it was something as simple as latency you'd think they's just come out and say it is latency as opposed to saying nothing at all and pretending the issue doesn't exist. Even though we are now almost a year into an expansion and it hasn't been addressed.


It does not follow the properties of Tranq/Divine Hymn. Divine Hymn has no interaction with haste outside of the length of the channel time. No matter how much haste you have, it will always hit 5/12 targets 4 times during it's channel duration. Tranq behaves the same way. The reason it interacts with haste is that the Tranq heal is both a direct heal on the target and a HoT component. The HoT component does scale with haste and gains extra breakpoints, but because it's just a buff on a player, it's basically the same thing as a normal HoT.

Totems are completely different in that they are seperate environmental objects that get extra breakpoints based on haste levels. What appears to happen is that when there is server side latency spikes, (it isn't even your latency, it's the server's) the totem doesn't despawn right away. Instead of HTT being up for 10 seconds, it might be physically present for 10.3 seconds or something. The tick frequency is determined by the amount of haste combined with the totem duration, so extensions to the totem duration frequently add unexpected extra ticks to HTT/HST. You can sometimes see this if you use a WeakAura with remaining totem duration showing in tenths of seconds. Sometimes, the totem will stay active at 0.0 seconds remaining for a few tenths of a second - this is the latency issue.

It doesn't appear that totems ever despawn earlier than expected, so you should always gain the minimum number of expected ticks by gearing to a totem haste breakpoint level. However, you will quite often get unexpected extra ticks that shouldn't be possible and that aren't predictable and controllable in any way.

What I fear is that their solution to fixing it will be to just remove haste scaling from totems altogether and claim that they shouldn't scale if Tranq/DH don't scale.

As far as what to do with gearing for T16, it's hard to say. You probably want to gear to the 8891 haste breakpoint, to often gain an extra HST tick. Even if it isn't 100% of the time needed, an extra breakpoint on an ability that is doing up to 35% of our total healing is a big deal. This is especially true as a Troll Shaman, because that is also the (in theory) breakpoint to gain an extra tick on HTT with Berserking active, and HTT is getting a huge buff in 25 mans.
Edited by Tiberria on 9/1/2013 11:35 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
09/01/2013 11:32 AMPosted by Tiberria
Totems are completely different in that they are seperate environmental objects that get extra breakpoints based on haste levels. What appears to happen is that when there is server side latency spikes, (it isn't even your latency, it's the server's) the totem doesn't despawn right away. Instead of HTT being up for 10 seconds, it might be physically present for 10.3 seconds or something.


Have they ever said this publicly or is this your theory?
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