5.4, EF or SS? And replacing battle healer.

90 Tauren Paladin
6820
We will still, IMO, be the #1/#2 tank in 5.4, as blizz has truly embraced the haste build with our gear. I think come 6.0, we will see a major overhaul in all of the tanking classes as Blizz works to make AM more active like it is for monks. Embrace the change :)


Well lets hope you are right, i've enjoyed tanking this expansion. More so than i did in Cata with the ctc capping. I enjoy the haste build and im still working on gearing as you can see from my armoury. but with the new tier coming out i hope to catch up to all the people that ahead of me currently. I will embrace it. :)

Just quietly guys. Going to miss battle healer :(
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90 Human Paladin
9355
I think Battle Healer is still going to be a good choice:

4pc tier = free EF

EF+vengeance+haste+mastery+crit = massive self heals approx every 2 sec or faster

SoI+ GotBH+vengeance+haste = 30yd smart heal on every melee swing

The last numbers I have show my SoI over-healing 41.3%, Battle Insight over-healing 47.3%. Since the new GotBH is a smart heal, over-healing should be minimized.

Don't count it out yet
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63 Human Paladin
5385
Or crit if you just doing normal/flex/lfr and aren't dying.


Why would you gear for crit when you can gear avoidance and get the crit for free? Especially in LFR where there's no enrage timer worth mentioning, and as long no more than half the DPS stand in fire until they die/can't find the right target, you don't need the tank to contribute to DPS checks in order to pass them. Flex probably won't be THAT different in that respect.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13820
09/04/2013 12:16 PMPosted by Amarlynn
Or crit if you just doing normal/flex/lfr and aren't dying.


Why would you gear for crit when you can gear avoidance and get the crit for free?


I'm'na assume you're referring to Riposte? Paladins weren't getting that, so far as I was aware. According to current Patch Notes, only Warriors and DKs will have access.
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90 Tauren Paladin
6820
I think Battle Healer is still going to be a good choice:

4pc tier = free EF

EF+vengeance+haste+mastery+crit = massive self heals approx every 2 sec or faster

SoI+ GotBH+vengeance+haste = 30yd smart heal on every melee swing

The last numbers I have show my SoI over-healing 41.3%, Battle Insight over-healing 47.3%. Since the new GotBH is a smart heal, over-healing should be minimized.

Don't count it out yet


I dunno, the new patch, from what i understand will hurt the healing substantially. currently it heals for 30% of your melee damage done to the raid. The new glyph, no longer heals yourself for one. and it only heals you for 25% of the healing you would receive from seal of insight. which base line, without any vengeance, is only around 800 hit points.

No matter what the scaling it will be about as useful as censure as become for port. With the 40% buff to threat but the .03% reduction to vengeance i most likely would n't be using the glyph. it just will not scale well. Even at high levels of vengeance the healing received will be similar to what the base line is now. Which is about 2.k-3k hp. Rough numbers here very rough. just going from what i remembered in last nights ToT. with he way the glyph currently works im healing the raid for around 6-9k depending on my vengeance levels. Which i love and so do my healers.
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90 Human Paladin
9355
No Riposte for pally tanks, they gave us haste on our tier set :)

Current Battle Healer heals for 20% of melee damage done.

New Battle Healer will heal for 30% of SoI self-heal.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vgi4uxglo9ffr1l6/details/3/?s=2593&e=2821

On Tortos, I tank the boss, warrior has bats. My SoI healed for an average of 14.6k per heal, 54% of which was over-healing. My Battle Insight healed for an average of 4.6k, of which 33% was over-healing. Now, in the new patch, my Battle Insight would have been a 4.4k smart heal, targeting the lowest health raid member in 30yds, reducing over-heal and actually healing the person that need it most. You need to remember that the self healing of SoI is a lot of over-heal in non-heroic raids, and will be moot when compared to EF's healing. EF gives you a heal, equivalent to a SS absorb, twice as often as SS. This is why I am holding to the idea that Battle Healer will still be a viable glyph choice.

I also believe that, like SS vs EF, we will be making these choice boss by boss, instead of simply riding Battle Healer all the time.
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90 Tauren Paladin
6820
No Riposte for pally tanks, they gave us haste on our tier set :)

Current Battle Healer heals for 20% of melee damage done.

New Battle Healer will heal for 30% of SoI self-heal.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vgi4uxglo9ffr1l6/details/3/?s=2593&e=2821

On Tortos, I tank the boss, warrior has bats. My SoI healed for an average of 14.6k per heal, 54% of which was over-healing. My Battle Insight healed for an average of 4.6k, of which 33% was over-healing. Now, in the new patch, my Battle Insight would have been a 4.4k smart heal, targeting the lowest health raid member in 30yds, reducing over-heal and actually healing the person that need it most. You need to remember that the self healing of SoI is a lot of over-heal in non-heroic raids, and will be moot when compared to EF's healing. EF gives you a heal, equivalent to a SS absorb, twice as often as SS. This is why I am holding to the idea that Battle Healer will still be a viable glyph choice.

I also believe that, like SS vs EF, we will be making these choice boss by boss, instead of simply riding Battle Healer all the time.


Great example. So all in all EF and battle healer will be the go to as soon as you have 4pc. But until then its simply a preference or mechanic choice.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14960
edit: big long post that overlooked something small, but important. more thinking to do, be back later.
Edited by Pancakê on 9/5/2013 8:15 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14960
SoI+ GotBH+vengeance+haste = 30yd smart heal on every melee swing

The last numbers I have show my SoI over-healing 41.3%, Battle Insight over-healing 47.3%. Since the new GotBH is a smart heal, over-healing should be minimized.
Based on the wording, I'd expect the new Battle Healer will replace the current SoI self-heals, which means that they will not occur on every melee swing. SoI is only about an 86.7% proc chance, high but not every swing.

Also, there is no basis for the claim that EF "allows" you to keep Battle Healer glyphed, as there's no interaction between them at all. Using Battle Healer in 5.4 means giving up your passive self-healing. Unless the raid healing was significantly higher than the self-healing I cannot see that being a worthwhile trade. And given that the battle healer heals will only be 30% of the self-heals that seems doubtful. Even if the new battle healer is still 100% proc compared to the self-heals at ~87% that's still not going to make up for them being less than 1/3 the size. Even your overhealing example won't change that, as it would still only be about half as much raid healing as the self-healing we give up. And, as far as I can tell the current Battle Healer is already a smart-heal, I've never seen it heal someone that was already at full health unless everyone else was at full health too (it's possible that it'll more intelligently pick lower health targets than only somewhat-damaged targets, but that won't really affect how much it overheals) so there's no reason to assume that it'll do any less overhealing than the current battle healer does.
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63 Human Paladin
5680
The GC is another change i dont understand the reasoning behind. From what i understand on the forums, paladins are the best tanks, currently. After this Patch i suspect we will be behind monks, warriors, dos but still ahead of bear druids. But why so many nerfs to our some of our core abilities? Even the decrease in damage to the alabaster shield glyph is pretty uncalled for. Overall i am unhappy with the changes made to prot in this patch. I sometimes find it hard enough to keep aggro on add groups, without making one of our high damage abilities, AS, less available.

Noble shield and Bralton, thank you both for the info on EF. Feeling better about the SS nerf now. I believe in 5.5 we will most likely be buffed back again once blizzard realises that the changes they have made will be to detrimental to the play style of a prot pally.


PVP...

Can't go around silencing mages!
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90 Human Paladin
5205
Here's an insight coming from our favorite theorycrafter, Theck, about choosing between SS and EF.

I could imagine balancing Eternal Flame and Selfless Healer, because they both provide different ways to produce extra healing. But balancing either with Sacred Shield is tougher, because it’s an absorb. Even if they all produced identical TMI values, we’d probably lean towards Sacred Shield – it’s an absorb, essentially passive, generally higher DPS, less reliant on perfect play. It’s just safer than the other options if they produce similar results. I still hold out hope that next expansion, Sacred Shield will become baseline for Protection and we’ll get a third healing option in that tier. I think that we have a much better chance of getting three interesting and equally viable options in that situation.


So the choice is a bit harder given that the talents are different in nature.
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90 Tauren Druid
15625
PVP...

Can't go around silencing mages!

Tank specs are encouraged to go around pvping, apart from flag carrying? This is news to me.

Nvm, they nerfed flag carrying tanks too. A lot.
Edited by Sheepherdr on 9/9/2013 3:51 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7295
09/04/2013 12:16 PMPosted by Amarlynn
Why would you gear for crit when you can gear avoidance and get the crit for free?


How do you figure avoidance translates to Crit ?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
13820
Why would you gear for crit when you can gear avoidance and get the crit for free?


How do you figure avoidance translates to Crit ?


Think that was another one thinking Pallies were getting Riposte.
Edited by Grôgnárd on 9/9/2013 4:11 PM PDT
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