Frost Mage Discussions

I want to get a thread going about Frost on the new DDF.
Hot topics
  • -Ice Lance at 80

  • Yes it's probably too good. Even in this horribly outdated gear I can DF > IL people to death. negated by High levels of gear, but people don't always wanna spend their honor for gear at the end of expac. No mage I've met likes the Ice Lance spam play style but it gets better at 85
    More Manageable at 85? Yes.
  • -Shatters return at 85?

  • I wish I could find Lhiv's post, But at 85 FB > IL shatters are more profitable damage wise than spamming IL. Good change, I believe that is the playstyle most of us were drawn to when choosing Frost.
  • -Sustained damage in PvP

  • My only concern is that when a frost mage has to pillar kite or kite in general their damage output drops almost to 0 because they have no DoTs. This is something I had a problem with in 2's at start of WOTLK, 3's depended. But when things balance out this is something to keep eye on.
    just wanted to get some opinions from New DDF on frost.

    EDIT: Also so input on how massively dispels affect mages would be good
    Edited by Chillbill on 11/7/2010 8:52 PM PST
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    Terrible damage on non-frozen targets due to badly designed mastery and PVE changes to Ice Lance and Frostbolt damage

    Frostbolt had to be buffed by shatter talent to even be a consideration over Ice Lance on DF

    No rank 1 frostbolt

    No arcane missiles


    Massive fail if you ask me, completely ruined by their efforts to make Frost PvE viable, and Frost still sucks in PvE from what I hear.
    Edited by Andonisus on 11/7/2010 1:47 PM PST
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    85 Goblin Mage
    12745
    Frost needs to not be a one trick pony for damage dealt. Ice Lance or targets need to a lot of damage when they are frozen, or well there needs to be situations where Mages can get burst off. Damage is terrible outside of targets being frozen. We are completely dependent upon it at 85.

    I think that balances Frost Mages damage really well. It's still situational and will require a lot of set up. Knowing when procs can be used when dispels are CC'dor being focused are all important things to do. So I'm looking forward to it.
    Edited by Thoronos on 11/7/2010 2:38 PM PST
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    85 Undead Death Knight
    6110
    2 posts talking about how terrible damage is with no consideration toward the large amount of utility Frost mages have at their disposal, at least from a PvP perspective. If you want more damage, I'd say you need to be willing to sacrifice a bit of utility/control in trade.
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    85 Goblin Mage
    12745
    2 posts talking about how terrible damage is with no consideration toward the large amount of utility Frost mages have at their disposal, at least from a PvP perspective. If you want more damage, I'd say you need to be willing to sacrifice a bit of utility/control in trade.


    Frost Mages lost a ton of control. Lost utility. There's a ton of ways to break "roots" on top of dispels. Yea, I'm strong 1v1, very strong. I'm even very strong against 2v1's if no dispels are present. You add a dispel it's extremely one sided in favor of the dispels. Mages don't complain because i think for the most part we accept that. That's our skill part of the class to try and deal with those.
    Reply Quote
    2 posts talking about how terrible damage is with no consideration toward the large amount of utility Frost mages have at their disposal, at least from a PvP perspective. If you want more damage, I'd say you need to be willing to sacrifice a bit of utility/control in trade.


    I'd be fine with damage like we had pre-patch(relative to other classes/health pools/etc.), which was low.

    The problem isn't how much damage we do altogether, it's how situational it is. Shatter used to be our controlled burst, now it's the only way we really have to put out significant damage at all. It'll be overpowered in some situations, non-existent in others. Our new design is just awful to play and it won't be fun to play against for those classes that can't reliably avoid our ridiculously high shatter damage.
    Reply Quote
    85 Undead Death Knight
    6110

    Frost Mages lost a ton of control. Lost utility. There's a ton of ways to break "roots" on top of dispels. Yea, I'm strong 1v1, very strong. I'm even very strong against 2v1's if no dispels are present. You add a dispel it's extremely one sided in favor of the dispels. Mages don't complain because i think for the most part we accept that. That's our skill part of the class to try and deal with those.


    What control was lost? What utility was lost? There's not a ton of ways for melee to break roots (or snares for that matter), which is who the roots in question affect the most.

    Why should you be strong 2v1 at all, regardless of dispels being present or not?

    Why should reliance on dispels be mandatory vs. a Frost mage? On the other hand, why do dispels hamper a Frost mage so supposedly dramatically?

    These are the questions that need to be considered.
    Reply Quote
    80 Blood Elf Paladin
    4710
    You have audacity to complain about Frost mages problems?

    How about we talk about root spam shutting melee down? How about we talk about spellsteal spam? How about we talk about unbelievable mobility, survivability and control that makes frost titanium cannon instead of glass cannon?

    Frost is faceroll at 80 and nothing changes at 85. It is still a faceroll.
    Reply Quote
    90 Orc Warrior
    10780

    Frost Mages lost a ton of control. Lost utility. There's a ton of ways to break "roots" on top of dispels. Yea, I'm strong 1v1, very strong. I'm even very strong against 2v1's if no dispels are present. You add a dispel it's extremely one sided in favor of the dispels. Mages don't complain because i think for the most part we accept that. That's our skill part of the class to try and deal with those.


    So, frost mages can't kill healers... no one can.

    But, you think it's OK to go 2v1 and win (given no healer around)? Really? And you think mages need more buffs?
    Reply Quote
    85 Undead Death Knight
    6110
    But, you think it's OK to go 2v1 and win (given no healer around)? Really? And you think mages need more buffs?


    Yeah, that's a rather wild contention. All things being equal, MDPS should be on par with RDPS. No one DPS spec should be outperforming another DPS spec, let alone 2(!) by such a margin--not for PvE and definitely not for PvP.

    If you can comfortably and often take on 2 v 1, then something is incredibly wrong.
    Reply Quote
    We lost rank 1 frostbolt(yes, this is a big deal) and frostbite. Also lost Arcane Missiles, our best chance of killing a LoSing target.

    As for 1vs2, we are a great class for this due to our control, we can CC chain one for a significant time while DPSing the other.
    But we're generally not going to 1vs2 players that are near our gear/skill levels unless they have no CDs and we have most of ours.

    I think a good player behind most classes can comfortably and often handle 2 lesser geared/experienced players.
    Reply Quote
    60 Night Elf Rogue
    940

  • -Sustained damage in PvP

  • My only concern is that when a frost mage has to pillar kite or kite in general their damage output drops almost to 0 because they have no DoTs. This is something I had a problem with in 2's at start of WOTLK, 3's depended. But when things balance out this is something to keep eye on.

  • ...Actually, thematically I really like the idea of shattering ice/ice shards causing lacerations that makes the target bleed out over time. Plus, the idea of a caster still doing some physical damage (even if it is bleeds that are unmitigated by armor) is kind of cool.
    Reply Quote
    I do not see frost worth anything, especially not pvp.

    I've yet to see a frost mage dominate any BG, even with the patch. On the other hand, I am seeing arc-mages doing UBER in BGs.

    Reply Quote
    ...Actually, thematically I really like the idea of shattering ice/ice shards causing lacerations that makes the target bleed out over time. Plus, the idea of a caster still doing some physical damage (even if it is bleeds that are unmitigated by armor) is kind of cool.


    Rogue: Give mages bleeds
    Mage: Uh...what?
    Other Rogues: The ***%@^???@!!!! NO!!!
    Reply Quote
    60 Night Elf Rogue
    940
    ...Actually, thematically I really like the idea of shattering ice/ice shards causing lacerations that makes the target bleed out over time. Plus, the idea of a caster still doing some physical damage (even if it is bleeds that are unmitigated by armor) is kind of cool.


    Rogue: Give mages bleeds
    Mage: Uh...what?
    Other Rogues: The ***%@^???@!!!! NO!!!
    Don't get me wrong, I know it'd be annoying as hell for us. But thematically, and from the stand point of shifting a little damage away from burst to consistent damage, I like it.
    Reply Quote
    85 Goblin Mage
    12745
    I

    But, you think it's OK to go 2v1 and win (given no healer around)? Really? And you think mages need more buffs?


    Yeah, that's a rather wild contention. All things being equal, MDPS should be on par with RDPS. No one DPS spec should be outperforming another DPS spec, let alone 2(!) by such a margin--not for PvE and definitely not for PvP.

    If you can comfortably and often take on 2 v 1, then something is incredibly wrong.


    I was referencing the average BG player. I can 2 v 1 in BG's all the time. Mostly because no one seems to have a clue how to play their class there and people aren't adequately geared. I can't kill a 2 v 1 vs any class that is played by competent above average players.
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