Positional Healing Thoughts

85 Human Paladin
6955
So, We've all got/are getting these neat new abilities that are positional- Efflorescence pops up where you throw swiftmend, Holy Radiance is around the paladin, HW: Sanctuary, PW:Barrier, etc.- oh, oh, and now add LoD with the cone-

I really like these, and I think their likes could change healing forever- if these are quite strong while our targeted raid are weaker (I'm thinking my general impression of Chain Heal vs. my general impression of Efflorescence- and hoping those impression are correct and shared by much of the community), it could become and age where our green-bar staring selves need much more to look up and see the general direction of the random-gibbing boss ability.

And I think that could be AWESOME. I imagine it, and it makes me feel all happy and fuzzy inside.

What are your thoughts? Would you welcome a healing model like this? Would it make you go switch specs to DPS? Would it make you roll a healer? What are some of the possible pitfalls? Advantages/high points?

/hunker down and watch :)
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
12880
I like the idea of them a lot too. Although it seems like its going to be a mess for 25 mans, and especially when you have void zones / bad stuff to not stand in. Hopefully they'll be some graphical options to help out in this regard.
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
The idea of them is kind of cool, but since they nerfed them all into uselessness to match the epic fail of healing rain, they really aren't all that great of tools anymore in large raids.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5755
i dnt know i got 2 healers on shammy one pally an i have had no issiues healing actually i findit easier on the pally now then before its not 1 button till you break a mouse its more controled an easier in a raid situation .
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90 Draenei Paladin
19700
Anything that requires healing outside of tunnel visioning a raid frame without being overly annoying is a welcome change, in my opinion.

Efflorescence, LoD (with 6 person cap), Healing Rain, and Sanctuary all fit this criteria quite well. So long as these heals aren't ridiculously OP, I welcome the concept.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10900
I think they require a delicate balancing act. If they are too powerful, we'll become extremely bored by just putting a circle in the same place every time we do a fight. If they're too weak, we just ignore them. As long as Blizzard finds that happy place for these new heals, I think they'll be quite fun and add some variety to healing.

So I suppose I would not support the healing model proposed by the OP since I think it would be boring and predictable, but I most certainly look forward to adding this new tool to our more classical healing used in WoW.
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85 Human Paladin
6955
The idea of them is kind of cool, but since they nerfed them all into uselessness to match the epic fail of healing rain, they really aren't all that great of tools anymore in large raids.


I am a little nervous about that one, I admit. :)

If they are too powerful, we'll become extremely bored by just putting a circle in the same place every time we do a fight.


I have the same sort of fear, but so many fights have so many reasons to avoid standing close together, it's almost insane. I would certainly expect there to be some fights where you can and should all be standing together all the time, in those cases, heals like Holy Radiance and Efflorescence are absurdly overpowered- but in my mind's eye, I see designing around that not only being possible, but interesting and fun. More often, I'd except there to be dire consequences to standing too close together- or at least frequent instances where a gathered group must scatter- such that placing those AoE heals becomes really interesting. :)

Oh course, I don't expect this to replace raid frame healing entirely, but the thrust is a fascinating idea, and the tools are all there now, I think- PW:B isn't really good enough in this respect, but the others are pretty sweet- if this became a healer's primary counter to massive damage to multiple targets- why- I can imagine that being swell. I'm not certain, mind you, but I can imagine it working out nicely. :)
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85 Human Paladin
6955
Double post, I know- but this does deserve to be in a different post, I think- as I think about this more, I think it might be useful to describe somewhat specific situations where this would work and be interesting, and some catastrophically difficult ones where it would suck awfully. I'm hoping to see ideas from other folks with specific situations, but I'll post a couple of mine, too. :)

I'm thinking seeing Toravon's orbs spawn, and while I heal specific folks, I see two converging on a pocket of people- LoD! Or speed of light myself with Holy Radiance into in the general vicinity.

Or seeing someone with a couple of stacks of unchained magic on Heroic Sindy (Note: Never downed Heroic Sindy- I hear that AoE associated with unchained magic/instability is disgusting. If I've just posted a mechanic that would certainly result in a wipe, let me know. XD)- but throwing down Efflorescence in the area, since you know there'll be impending damage there.

Even seeing a generic fireball going from giant boss's fists to a certain area of the raid- casting a quick LoD in that direction as people scatter (Efflorescence and HW:Sanc would probably be out of place there. I have an inkling that that will be pretty standard regardless- that Blizz will help bosses prefer areas or healing for Void Zones, etc. :) Then again, though, I know my habit is to get out of the void zone but not run far away from it- just not taking damage is fine. If the AoE healing spot is a bit larger than the Void zone, well, that could be fine, regardless! :) )

Now, obviously, again, I don't mean to call healing this way superior to CoH/WG types. It isn't. It's more difficult, takes more thought and awareness, and so forth- but that's the point!- making these abilities the ones we lean on would mean another kind of nerf to healers, but one intended to make things more interesting, dynamic, and just different than they have been in the past.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts, everyone, keep the thinking up! :)
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85 Human Paladin
6955
I like putting heals on the ground- It's natural and feels right. :) :) :)

I don't really get any heals like that, though, although I do get one later centered on my position! :)

I don't mean to be dismissive or snide, I promise, I just disagree. Keep giving your thoughts, but if you can, try to describe just why you feel it feels wrong. :)

Also, I call schmoo for saying positional heals make bugs your overlord anymore than any other heals do, and unless someone has done something that means they SHOULD die, they probably won't die in the time you take to run out of a void zone.

You Know how people in Alterac Valley twirl around on their horses on the way down the hill, alliance side? This is an invitation to incorporate that mechanic into your healing. Not super seriously, but still, some, for sure! :) :) :)
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85 Human Paladin
6955
"Let the little ol lady take the bomb on the plane she is harmless."


I'll bite, Carbonic, I absolutely, positively, utterly do not understand what you mean by this particular statement. I'm trying, honest, but I don't understand.

My intellect is not lacking, honest. Can you explain this to me a bit more?

My wife plays on a mac, mouse turning shouldn't be a problem there, unless you use their proprietary design mac mice, which even my mac wife will not for WoW (yes, she is also better than me, she only lacks a heroic LK kill- done everything else and has the drake, all on the mac some so deride! :) )

I think a heal that performs worse in situationist where you are targeted with a void zone or worse, but better in situations without those obstacles directly on the healer, sounds like a fun, interesting heal, and a worthy, powerful addition to my toolbox. Also, if two people are about to die, that remains problematic, but it probably SHOULD be, and if it's one, why, Word of Glory and Holy Shock are there to keep me mobile and happy, and the erring person alive. :)
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85 Human Paladin
6955
i feel guilty when i put it on melee when something might be coming that they need to step out of im like ....uuuggghh i hope they see the void zone/fire/whatever even though that glowing shiny thing is all over the place


That's a totally legitimate fear. I know I've been yammering with my healer buddies- "We've been telling them not to stand in the fire for ages and ages... now we have to get them to stand in something?!?!" But I think the change will be interesting and good for the game- life is about to get much harder for DPS all around, really, and I think that's a very, very good thing. :)

I do think the graphical implications might need to be worked on, but that's a UI issue on the Blizzard side- I'm almost positive they can find way to make it obvious that there's a purple void zone inside the golden glowing circle. :)

It's an adaptation, for sure, but it's one that I think I'll be happy to make. I can't be certain yet- I mean, we haven't really seriously raided at 85, me least of all!

The Short version- You're not wrong in feeling a little worried about the dps/tanks who need to get into your stuff and out of the bad stuff, but my counter is that they- that is- WE- all need to learn how to do this sort of thing. After all, it's not hard. -

(I know, I know, neither is not standing in fire- yet people do it all the time! :) I'm confident things can get resolved that way- we just need to get better at the game- this is a mechanic offering us a way to use our skills to be better players, rather than have all this leet discerning skill, and nothing to do with it. :) )

I will admit, we try not to use frost traps on LK, the defiles hide under them. Blizz will have to make sure that kind of crap doesn't happen, because it breaks the usefulness of those abilities. :)
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85 Human Paladin
6955
I find that LoD has way to much luck involved with it's use. You can not explain this away.
Or be really resonable abou it and throw logic out the window, it has to much luck involved.


I find that it has way too much SKILL involved- more, frankly, than I presently possess, if last night's raid is any indication. I'm up for that challenge, though. I wanna learn.

I STILL don't properly understand about the little old lady and the bombs, but it sounds like you mean sophistry of some variation thereof- when you use a flawed argument to press a point or justify a behavior, such as arguing that a little old lady with a bomb surely must be no harm, as she's a harmless little old lady. Is that correct? If so, I have to engage in such things every time I meet my extended family, and one of them discover I play WoW. This game is a complete waste of time. But it's a blast. Helping others understand why I still play it isn't always easy. XD (More especially, getting them to not call Wowaholics anonymous on me is the point of the whole exercise. :) )

I think that luck -MAY- be involved in LoD's use, if you live somewhere where ping times are habitually awful, or if you happen to have a bad night on a cable modem- but those things happen regardless. Whether it's that LoD didn't land properly or the fire appeared under you AFTER you died, ping times and lag ruin boss attempts. The Luck part all has to do with your internet connection, not actually playing the game. :)

I don't think it will take undue work to use. To be superman with it, probably, but even with some difficulties, your LoD is probably STILL going to be useful for healing the melee and groups of ranged. I also still argue, I think from the LoD thread, that LoD isn't really intended to always hit six people in ten mans. It's a target CAP, meant to rein in the spell- it can still be worthwhile and wise to cast it when it will only hit three. :)

That said, lag and ping time is the most salient, cohesive argument against the idea of positional heals I've heard yet.

1. Lag
2. Sighting difficulty (can't get out of the fire if it's hidden by sparkly white pretties!)

Have I missed any, so far?

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85 Human Paladin
6955
Carbonic, the argument that your 31 point talent requires you to do something no one else has to do is a very poor one. 31 point talents are SUPPOSED to be unique.

I do suppose blizz could appease this by allowing LoD to be cast at a person up to 30 yards away, and aiming the paladin that direction automatically, like some channelled spells do, but I don't know for certain that that's necessary or warranted.

Luck of the draw with void zones affects EVERYONE. Blood Queen routinely picks me to burn with purple Legion flames- and ONLY ME- the ENTIRE RAID LONG. It sucks, it nerfs my performance, whether on my shammy or my pally, but I deal, even if it hurts my meters- my buddies cover for me.

If you want LoD gone, what do you want in its place? CoH clone? To heck with that! I don't want to be a priest clone! LoD fills a need in holy paladin healing. It does not do so as well as CoH or WG- but then, we don't even know THAT yet. For the record, CoH and WG are positonal, as well, you can just target them in a different way- a way that you are used to.

I want to again point out Dispersion, the shadow priest's 31-point ability. Spriests have clamored over this for ages- "WHAT?! NON-DPS TALENT AT TOP OF MY DPS TREE?! WTF, BLIZZ?!" And Blizz has turned a blind eye, because dispersion is a fun, interesting, entertaining, useful ability.

Likewise, LoD is not exactly perfectly the way you would like it to be- and while I don't want to argue that, "Look at how they have it- see? Isn't your situation much better now?" I do want to point out that the standard isn't set where you think it is set. LoD is an interesting spell the fills a hole in our healing repertoire. It is an excellent example a 31-point talent doing exactly what it ought to do (much as I would appreciate moving Holy Radiance to that position for the next three weeks XD). You still have Beacon, but it has been rightfully nerfed, because it made us OP in our niche and very UP out of it.

It is VERY useful in comparison to the points spent, and positional, so potentially worth even more, if a bit more difficult to use properly.
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