Ret/Prot and Silence

80 Night Elf Druid
7965
Retribution and protection paladins are afflicted by a unique issue: they can be silenced. Now, some would note that any player can be silenced. Some others might even note that some other melee classes have a few abilities disabled by silence, such as shouting/thunderclap as a warrior, faerie fire as a feral, or non-strike spells as a DK.

When retribution or protection paladins find themselves silenced, they are in effect incapacitated. The following melee-oriented "spells" are disabled by silence, if I recall correctly:


    Judgement
    Exorcism
    Holy Wrath
    Consecration
    Shield of the Righteous
    Avenger's Shield


This leaves retribution paladins with the following DPS abilities available: Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Divine Storm. We should keep in mind that when a retribution paladin is silenced, many of the abilities that generate Holy Power in order to use either Templar's Verdict or Divine Storm (which is being changed soon, as should be noted) are rendered unusable. Protection paladins are left with the following two abilities which share a cooldown: Hammer of the Righteous and Crusader Strike.

While it makes sense that these abilities are magical in nature and silence prevents the incantation of magic, it does not make sense that two specs of a melee class are disabled by an effect meant to plague casters whether in PvE or PvP.

I believe a change should occur to move retribution and protection in line with other melee classes in regards to silence. Maybe a talent spec benefit of having certain spells become immune to the effects of silence (i.e., not heals or Exorcism when Art of War is not up) when the main spec chosen is retribution or protection.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5735
Paladins actually suffer from the weaknesses of both, we can be silenced or disarmed and have a large portion of abilities locked out.

Most of us are pretty used to it. If you can give me a specific encounter which you feel being silenced hurts, I can tell you how to anticipate it and avoid losing threat/dps.
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100 Human Paladin
15585
I honestly don't find it a problem. The longest silences if you aren't stuck in a moonkin's solar beam are Silence and I think Strangulate.

During the time of those 2 silences, you can theoretically use CS/HotR twice. Ret paladins are in an even better position.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5735
On the other hand, we also do a lot of unmitigable (either through resistances or armor) Holy damage.
I think the tradeoff is fine, to be honest.

Alot of holy damage from what? Most ret abilities are physical. Seal and Judgement damage was nerfed hard.

Like Divine Shield, it's better not to have it at all if it means holding back the class as a whole.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5735
On the other hand, we also do a lot of unmitigable (either through resistances or armor) Holy damage.
I think the tradeoff is fine, to be honest.

Alot of holy damage from what? Most ret abilities are physical. Seal and Judgement damage was nerfed hard.

Like Divine Shield, it's better not to have it at all if it means holding back the class as a whole.
Holy Wrath, Consecration, Hammer of Wrath (the big one), Judgements, Seals, Avenger's Shield, Shield of the Righteous, Hammer of the Righteous (in a pinch), Exorcism..


It's a pretty potent combo. Sure, not ALL of our damage is Holy damage, but a large percentage (~30% if Ret, a bit more as Prot) IS. If you're arguing that's nothing, you're quite deluded.



As for the second part (and very important part, I might add) of my argument, you ignored it altogether. Who's to say Enh Shammies and Feral Druids aren't broken because of Silence mechanics? After all, they both are VERY underperforming classes in PvP - almost as much, if not more so, than Retribution (esp. in Feral's case).


Like Divine Shield, it's better not to have it at all if it means holding back the class as a whole.

I also ignored the second half of your post because I don't know what place Shamans and Druids are in, I don't play one.

It still doesn't seem fair that Paladins get slapped with the weakness of both archetypes(Melee and Caster). If Druids and enh. shamans are in the same boat then it's not fair to them either.

Now to address the specifics of your post:
5 of the abilities you've posted aren't regularly used in Ret PVP. 3 them require prot speccing.
So that removes the majority of abilities that use holy damage.
Seals and Judgement damage is again pithy, at its best it was a poor man's armor pen.
Even the Devs don't think it is:
http://youtu.be/JsMKMkPlJpY
At 10:30 you'll see their response.
Even though I don't think holy damage is that big of a deal, if it is what is holding back ret paladins, remove it. As it stands now though, being susceptible to being locked out of our utility while being susceptible to losing our damage because of the "fear" of holy damage is silly.
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80 Draenei Paladin
7360
You should hear me rage in PvP sometimes when I get silenced. It is pretty ferocious. ANGRY GOAT IS ANGRY >:(
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5735
paladins for some reason are very sensitive to not being able to fill every single GCD

Like all classes. That's not some "ethereal reason", doing nothing feels boring.

we are still all casters on some level and don't enhance shamans have to deal with the same issue?

Just because another class has an unfair disadvantage doesn't it make it okay.

sure its frustrating when i get silenced with 3 holy power and a sacred duty proc and can't use shield of the righteous, but i still have tons of tools at my disposal to remain in control and/or maintain threat.

Actually that's not the only situation where that's an issue, in pvp, being susceptible to silence as well as disarm really sucks. Ench. Shamans shouldn't have to deal with it and neither should ret. Especially with all the weaknesses already hopped on both specs.

play your class well. don't qq about your limitations. work around them.

In pvp the weakness of a class becomes a lot more glaring. You almost never are disarmed or silenced in a raid.

Edit: Let me just say, in PVE, Ret and Prot are fine(Except for Grand Crusader that really needs work). PVP ret's a joke. Prot's alright being there's only one class that can take our shield away we're not totally screwed when silenced and disarmed. Ret needs less RNG, one of the weaknesses of Zealotry is that you can accidently gain 2 holy power while its up anyway making it feel worthless.
Edited by Layam on 11/8/2010 6:28 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
I don't mind silences unless I need to heal, then it's like qq. At least I can still hit CS and TV. Being disarmed sucks worse for rets imo. Before, PoJ reduced disarms by 50%. I took it for granted QQ.

Being silenced AND disarmed? That's my "bubble + rocket boots" moment. :(
Edited by Lobster on 11/7/2011 10:19 PM PST
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