Reforging Crit to Mastery as Survival?

85 Blood Elf Hunter
6250
So....I've done some tests myself, and I've watched my own guild's Hunters do less DPS than me despite over-gearing me a bit.

Yet, some people swear to see a substantial increase.

I know we'll get into some arguments on rotations, but all of us use Explosive Trap and we don't let out Focus Cap. Not like we're doing anything wrong, so I can't figure out why people claim to see an increase by reforging their Crit to Mastery while I, and others, see a decrease.
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Crit has about 2x the value of mastery, don't reforge that way. This is for surv, MM is a different animal altogether.
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Only one hunter's explosive trap currently does damage. I tested this on the dummy when I was trying to help another hunter with their rotation. This could be the cause of some of what you're seeing.

Not that I have any idea on crit vs. mastery right now.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14760
At 85 SV will get a lot more out of mastery, but at 80 when you have to use steady shot instead of cobra shot, the value of the stat is much weaker.
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90 Orc Hunter
9980
I really dislike the overuse of the word "maths." It's math.
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Crit affects 100% of your damage as surv, mastery only effects about 50%, add to that the effect of crit on Focus regen via the surv talent. Once we have cobra shot the whole thing shifts and mastery becomes much stronger, though still maybe not as good as crit It will become much better than haste.
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Best is best, you don't give away the 'best' stat for a weaker stat. Don't put Pinto tires on your Porsche.

also, get a greatness card or something, anything besides mark... It's possible that some lvl 70 trinkets would be better. All kidding aside, get a greatness, it's performing better than some icc trinks because of the increased value of agil and the supreme uptime.
Edited by Guntor on 11/8/2010 5:50 PM PST
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If crit is mathematically better than mastery we sure would lol. I understand the hunter is not a main char for you but if spirit was magically my best stat i'd have thousands.
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There's plenty of stuff pointing to crit for surv at other sites and the best surv guide so far which is on the mmo-champ forums. I suggest you go read some of this stuff. Crit is mathematically a better stat for surv by a good margin. 2-1 value in fd.com, and not hard to come to around the same numbers if you pull out a calculator. Even with my current self buffed crit of 68%, crit is still a better stat than mastery.
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80 Tauren Hunter
3200
Okay then... don't reforge crit into mastery. problem solved. instead reforge hit or haste to mastery. (once you reach the hit cap obviously) I saw that our crit cap is something like 104%, but really after 50% I don't think it is overly important. So right now at 80, why not reforge a bit into mastery and get that extra boost that we didn't have before, and desperately need now.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8320
I've seen much better results with crit then I have mastery to be honest, and I've tried a ton of different combinations. So far the best combo is to basically leave your gear alone. Reforge if you need the hit, reforge some haste into crit. Mastery will really come into play once we get cobra shot.

As far as gemming goes, obviously gem agility- adds both attack power and crit. According to Ratingbuster: 20 agility adds something like 53 ranged attack power and .32 percent crit. I know the math on that sounds hinky, but that's according to ratingbuster. Reforging a haste/hit item with crit seems to be a dps increase (if you have a ton of hit- reforge crit; if you are just at hit cap, reforge a haste into crit).

Right now, it just seems the best choice as far as SV hunters go.
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Okay then... don't reforge crit into mastery. problem solved. instead reforge hit or haste to mastery. (once you reach the hit cap obviously) I saw that our crit cap is something like 104%, but really after 50% I don't think it is overly important. So right now at 80, why not reforge a bit into mastery and get that extra boost that we didn't have before, and desperately need now.


Because even over 50% crit, crit is still better than mastery. if you want to do the most boss dps you can then you leave your crit alone. I'd like mastery to be better for us now too but it simply isn't.
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How is damage is calculated?

For NON-PHYSICAL shots (Serpent Sting, Black Arrow, Explosive Shot, Arcane Shot,
Improved Serpent Sting) is it "base damage" * (1 + crit %) * (1 + mastery bonus) * (target's damage reduction from resiliencey)?

For example:

If a shot does a based damage of 1000, crits at 50%, and have a mastery bonus of 10% AND the target's damage absorption from resilience = 20%. Would the damage be equal to:

1000*1.5*1.1*.8= 1320


For PHYSICAL shots (Kill Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot) is it "base damage" * (1 + crit %) * (1 + haste %) * (target's damage reduction for armor and resilience)?

For example:

If a shot does a based damage of 1000, crits at 50%, and haste at 20% AND the target's damage absorption = 30%. Would the damage be equal to:

1000*1.5*1.2*.7 = 1260
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14760
Something like that. Most hunter shots are based on the physical crit multiplier (traps, black arrow and serpent sting/imp serpent sting are exceptions), so their multiplier is 2 instead of 1.5. Some shots like black arrow and serpent sting have talents to increase their multiplier. I'm assuming you're already calculating in things like weapon damage and RAP contribution when you refer to base damage? Also don't forget any additional multipliers (such as noxious stings, ferocious inspiriation, etc.).

Also you have haste included in physical shot multiplier- I have no idea why you included that. Haste affects how fast you shoot and how fast you regen, it has no bearing on your shot damage.
Edited by Zeherah on 11/10/2010 3:49 PM PST
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85 Worgen Hunter
10840
I got about 22% of mastery dmg it helps alot but for some reason the sheet shows it as dps loss when reforging
Edited by Stridur on 11/11/2010 6:41 AM PST
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