Warrior Threat Values

85 Goblin Warrior
8955
I am wondering if there are any plans to adjust DPS warrior threat values from their damage in the coming expansion. I am not in the beta so I am unable to tell if they are as big of a problem there as they are at 80, but right now it is pretty ridiculous. My gear is not good in the slightest in my "PvE" spec, if you want to call it that; however I am still able to snatch aggro clean off of the majority of tanks. I understand that restraint and control is a good skill to have and will likely be very important in the coming expansion, but when I have mages in the group who don't show an ounce of restraint but are not even close to pulling aggro it makes me worried.
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80 Orc Warrior
9435
Unless something is broken, like with ret paladins, all DPSers are doing 1:1 damage:threat, while all tanks are doing 1:3 damage to threat.
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85 Human Priest
7735
welcome to feral dps aggro
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85 Goblin Warrior
7195
I only have a problem with threat with our paladin tank, not our warrior tank - and that's just in the beginning before vengeance stacks.
(On live).
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85 Orc Warrior
7485
Yeah, the whole "Waiting for sunders" is such an outdated mechanic. But then again, Blizzard is bringing a lot of those back, so maybe we should revisit this policy too, right? Oh no, your DPS doesn't shine like everyone else's. But guess what? That's what it takes to be pro.
Edited by Lukhien on 11/5/2010 8:13 PM PDT
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85 Goblin Shaman
12305
Disregard everything Lukhien says, he's not a big boy and ready for the DDF yet. :/
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1 Undead Mage
0
Disregard everything Lukhien says, he's not a big boy and ready for the DDF yet. :/


This. He gets beat by Mages.
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85 Worgen Warrior
8890
It's just as big an issue as it's always been.
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85 Human Warrior
0
This issue is aggro delays combined with extreme aggro drops, not baseline threat. It makes zero difference if you do the same threat as a mage, since they have 30 seconds of mirror images, followed by a 100% aggro drop if they hit invis.

Hunters can achieve a similar effect by using MD, and feign death, though that requires a little bit more management, as MD is not as powerful as mirror images. What's worse is a mage's cooldowns last about 30 seconds. So they do insane damage for 30 seconds, drop the threatr, and then do lower damage till their next burn phase. A mage that even puts a small bit of effort into managing their aggro will NEVER pull a boss off a tank.
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1 Undead Mage
0
Feral has cower.
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85 Goblin Warrior
8955
Yeah as far as I can tell everything with warriors is working correctly for aggro generation (and on warrior tanks its much less of an issue thanks to vigilance), but when i crit 5-10 times in a row there is virtually nothing the paladin/dk tanks can do about it. They DR'd their taunt to nothing or tried to out burst me and couldn't.

In raids its not the biggest issue because I can obviously hold back on live. I'm wondering if any of the DPS in these forums has had a chance to raid in the beta and can comment on if threat is an issue at all or not? Maybe even a dev who can share their thoughts on it?
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85 Tauren Shaman
11955
nerf heroic strike maybe?
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85 Human Warrior
4925
nerf heroic strike maybe?


It barely has any extra threat anymore.

The only 2 abilities with a lot of bonus threat attached anymore are shield slam and devastate.

In general tank threat is weak without vengence stacked, with a lot of vengence its god mode
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
5015
All DPS have the same amount of "threat reduction", and by that I mean to say all DPS deal 1 threat per damage, while all tanks deal 3 threat per damage.

Any problems with threat generation have very little to do with "threat modifiers", since those don't exist anymore. Problems can usually be isolated to things like:

1. The lack of an active threat dump, such as Invisibility, Soulshatter, Vanish, Feign Death, etc.

2. How quickly damage is dealt. A Frost DK dumping a several thousand damage worth of Howling Blast in the first GCD of a fight is obviously going to have more problems than an Affliction Warlock who has to spend several GCDs just ramping up his stuff.

3. How much raw damage is dealt. A Cat Druid technically needs several GCDs of ramp-up to put up bleeds, but even ramp-up and the backloaded nature of a DOT will still cause threat problems if the final threat output is still in the 5-digit range.

However, in almost every case, the answer usually boils down to two things:

A. Wait longer.

B. Get a better tank.
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85 Human Warrior
0
All DPS have the same amount of "threat reduction", and by that I mean to say all DPS deal 1 threat per damage, while all tanks deal 3 threat per damage.

Any problems with threat generation have very little to do with "threat modifiers", since those don't exist anymore. Problems can usually be isolated to things like:

1. The lack of an active threat dump, such as Invisibility, Soulshatter, Vanish, Feign Death, etc.

2. How quickly damage is dealt. A Frost DK dumping a several thousand damage worth of Howling Blast in the first GCD of a fight is obviously going to have more problems than an Affliction Warlock who has to spend several GCDs just ramping up his stuff.

3. How much raw damage is dealt. A Cat Druid technically needs several GCDs of ramp-up to put up bleeds, but even ramp-up and the backloaded nature of a DOT will still cause threat problems if the final threat output is still in the 5-digit range.

However, in almost every case, the answer usually boils down to two things:

A. Wait longer.

B. Get a better tank.


Don't forget number 4, aggro delays such as mirror image. With mirror image up it doesn't matter if you unload on the boss with 10 billion dps before it even gets to the tank, as long as you remember to invis before your images run out. I also sorta put MD and tricks in this category since they don't actually reduce threat, even though that's technically incorrect since they're a threat transfer.
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90 Tauren Druid
14035
Melee has a 10% threat buffer, meaning you have to hit 110% threat to pull aggro. Ranged has a 30% threat buffer. Prior to 4.0, melee had much larger threat reduction modifiers to make up for this: typically -30% while ranged might have -10% if any. With all such threat modifiers removed, melee in general is in a much worse position than ranged with regard to threat.

As far as melee classes go, rogues can vanish, feral druids can cower, and ret paladins can salv. Death knights do a large portion of their damage from pets (at least for unholy), and this does not contribute to their threat. Enhancement shamans are gimp at 80. This leaves warriors in the worst position.
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