Rets too Vulnerable to Dispel Mechanics

85 Human Paladin
5845
As of right now inquisition, zealotry, blessings, wings, bubble, divine protection, the entire line of hand spells, mastery and art of war procs, our stun and our disorient repentance can all be dispelled or spell stolen. Does anyone else besides me see a problem with this?

The last time I checked, concussive blow wasn't dispellable and neither was shield wall.

So all of our offensive and defensive cooldowns, as well as CC abilities and 31 point talent that we spec into, can be purged, spell stolen or dispelled. Priests and shaman actually knock off any two active abilities we have on with a single GCD. At this point I don't even think Zealotry is worth wasting a talent point on, and inquisition will never be something I use holy power on.

With mana never being an issue either now or at 85 when it comes to using dispel mechanics, I think it's a little broken that classes that can dispel/purge can just spam click off our entire array of abilities, talents, mastery and art of war procs without thinking twice about it.

I think it is necessary for some of our utilities to become either undispellable, or else there needs to be a cooldown on dispel/purge/spellsteal. If I need to actually coordinate and think about using either my offensive or defensive cooldowns because of forbearance and long cooldowns, why are classes that can spam dispels excluded from this as well?

Something that counters our entire array of offensive, defensive, and CC spells has no cooldown and a low mana cost. I wouldn't even care about it so much, except that this mechanic counters every single thing the ret spec is built around and it's a baseline ability for almost every class.

Solution: Apply the cooldown of whatever spell was purged/dispelled to the caster when they dispel something. If wings is dispelled, that casters dispel now goes on a two minute cooldown. If they take hand of freedom then its 22 seconds, etc. Either that or put a cooldown on dispel/purge/spellsteal.

Thoughts?
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85 Human Paladin
5845
Nobody else thinks we're a little too vulnerable to dispels? o.O
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
I think we are, but a lot of the times your opponent is either not quick enough or not smart enough to dispel EVERYTHING on you. Even if they are, as long as you have a lot of buffs from your teammates + RF/Blessings, there's no guarantee they'll dispel something important.

I agree that the mana cost should be a lot higher for dispel/purge especially right now when mana regen is insane.
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80 Draenei Paladin
7360
We would be too OP if we couldn't be spell-stolen / dispelled to death. Just imagine the following appearing on the forums:

Random mage post, topic "I CANT STEAL WINGS WTF"

PALADINS ARE OP! I CANT STEAL THEIR WINGS! THIS IS BS INSTEAD OF 2 SHOTTING THEM I HAVE TO 3 SHOT THEM. FIX THIS NOW BLIZZARD
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10375
We would be too OP if we couldn't be spell-stolen / dispelled to death. Just imagine the following appearing on the forums:

Random mage post, topic "I CANT STEAL WINGS WTF"

PALADINS ARE OP! I CANT STEAL THEIR WINGS! THIS IS BS INSTEAD OF 2 SHOTTING THEM I HAVE TO 3 SHOT THEM. FIX THIS NOW BLIZZARD


We get that treatment as long as we are viable. Doesn't mean it is right.
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Hey at least seals can't be removed anymore from purge happy Shamans....



*waits for them to revert it*
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85 Human Paladin
10710
I would have to agree that we are very vulnerable to dispels at this time.

I hope some time in the next few weeks things might be changed like seals were changed to resist dispell by a %. that was before they were totaly immune to dispell. But I think something within that area could work for a few of our heavy talented spells.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
11530
I'm in agreement, but I do have enough faith (especially considering where we're at now compared to where we were - i.e. both a slight gap closer AND an interrupt now) that if it is seen as a large problem, we'll get either a counter or some form of resistance made available to us.
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I agree 100%. If I'm dueling a mage, I get kited. If I pop freedom, spell steal. If I'm dueling a warlock, I get kited (CoE's slow was buffed). I use freedom, pet steals it. I duel a sham... well you get the picture. Plus, that's just freedom that I'm talking about! Every other buff I put on myself or on others usually is dispelled soon after, making zealotry just about useless, as well as every other buff I decide to cast. I feel that blizzard needs to address this problem very soon, because the last thing I want to do is to be forced into protection for pvp and only using ret for pve.
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85 Human Paladin
5845
I agree 100%. If I'm dueling a mage, I get kited. If I pop freedom, spell steal.


Not only that, but if I then choose to use wings and put pressure on them from a distance because they stole freedom and put me in another root, they spellsteal that instantly as well. There is literally nothing we can do as of right now against a smart frost mage.

Obviously this game is not balanced around 1v1, but the point is that two long cooldowns are instantly negated by an instant cast, low mana spammable baseline ability. Mages should have to make key decisions when stealing buffs, which is why a cooldown makes sense.
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I agree 100%. If I'm dueling a mage, I get kited. If I pop freedom, spell steal.


Not only that, but if I then choose to use wings and put pressure on them from a distance because they stole freedom and put me in another root, they spellsteal that instantly as well. There is literally nothing we can do as of right now against a smart frost mage.

Obviously this game is not balanced around 1v1, but the point is that two long cooldowns are instantly negated by an instant cast, low mana spammable baseline ability. Mages should have to make key decisions when stealing buffs, which is why a cooldown makes sense.
Agreed
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
4320
I also think it is ridiculous how vulnerable we are to Dispel and spellsteal, no other class can have every one of there most powerful abilites removed at least Pain suppresion of priests gives them dispel resistance but it is crazy that we are so easily trumped by spellsteal and purge and the argument that rebuffing blessing and RF will save you is also ridiculous good mages or dispel useres will keep you at 0 buffs at all times so that when you use a good one, it's gone or in spellsteals case theres im not asking for immunity from dispel, just something that at least makes it a risk to the user, akin to UA or VT and i think in general spellsteal needs to be nerfed in some way, either a cooldown or 3-5x mana cost otherwise we are still neutralized by mages with ease so any comp with a mage makes us unbareably gimped
Edited by Otsdarva on 11/7/2010 9:32 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4640
Ive noticed, that us paladins are the only ones who really notice.

Dueled a frost mage today, and beat him. He said its because of wings, i told him he was bad, and could spell steal it, dueled again without wings, and he blamed it on hand of freedom. Again, i told him he was bad and could spell steal it. Needless to say it was a bad mage.
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85 Human Paladin
12150
I think we are, but a lot of the times your opponent is either not quick enough or not smart enough to dispel EVERYTHING on you. [/i]


i lol'ed
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90 Human Paladin
15835
Play defensive, 1point glory heals, and have eye for an eye.

That takes care of mages.

being an engineer helps too.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10585
I think the problem is that dispels and spellsteal were supposed to be something that wasn't spammable in Cataclysm. Obviously this hasn't happened yet and they're just as spammable as ever. The increased mana cost means very little to the benefit that you gain from using it.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10115
being an engineer helps too.


You know what mages CAN'T steal? ROCKET BOOTS! :D

Too bad it looks like rocket boots are being removed in Cata.. at least according to what I've found on beta. :(
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85 Dwarf Paladin
4290
/signed
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