Shamans Deserve More CC's towards PvP

85 Draenei Shaman
5305
Again, Not a Beta Tester, however, with CC being the new norm, I feel as a class, We lack CC's. We need a stun of some sort. When looking at our classes, we all lack that one form of CC for both PvE, but most important to my self, we lack PvP CC.

Shamans have more counter classes than any class in the game and its because we have little to no survival tactics or CC's to really make the difference.

With heals not going to truly matter at 85 because they wont be ground breaking, Shamans will be torn apart because people will deal more damage than the common heal will heal. Granted we will have more life, however, Instead of healing, I would prefer to CC some one.

Shamans deserve this out of any class in the game. We have been discussing possible ways to add in a CC and we got 1 new CC and it was meant for PvE not for PvP. If anything, I think the new Elemental Bind should be similar to how Cyclone works and allows us to use it on anyone, not just Elemental's. This helps us a lot when it comes to melee because as the game plays now, in the past and at 85, blizzard will always say melee deserve to sit on you and you need to find a way to counter it. Well instant cast yellow damage from melee out deal my casting blizzard. We need a proper CC to counter them to even out the playing grounds.

Of course, this could be all invalid if shamans are decent at 85, but I know as of right now, Survivability as anyone but Restoration is Horrible. Melee eat my 20,000 armor and 1600 Resilience as if I wasn't wearing anything. I'm being hit by white hits for 2k crits and yellow damage for 5k-6k. We need help as a class and I suggested my idea of making our Bind Elemental CC be used as if it was just like Cyclone instead of like Bane from Warlocks.
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70 Blood Elf Warlock
1330
I see no mention of Hex. Is it really that bad?

There must be alternative ways to stay alive. Priests wear cloth and don't have CCs either aside from a short Fear, no?
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85 Troll Shaman
6120
Shamans have lots of CC. Not as much as a mage maybe, but enough. So I don't know what you're talking about.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
What I'm talking about is CC in general. Look at a warrior. They have 3 stuns if Arms, Reduce healing, aoe fear, insane healing as long as they have the rage, which they do, snares, reflects, etc.

Now look at mages, Spam-able CC which turns into a stun if arcane, Roots, Snares, Invisible, Ice Block, etc.

Towards the person saying what about Hex? I'll tell you about Hex, its a horrible design. Its suppose to be like Polymorph and it works exactly like Polymorph, however, the frog can chase you without being slowed, it breaks on damage even if its a minor tick from a dot, 30 second CD and it is faster casting than Polymorph, however, its that 30 second CD that kills the idea, also that's with the 15 second glyph.

Our bubble doesn't scale which isn't really bad because of its a totem buff off a glyph.

I don't want to QQ mainly because this isn't 85, but from what I saw form peoples post on 85, we lack a lot. our LvB crits for 20k on 100k people. Boomkins go into their eclipse and drop 50k starsurge bombs.

All I know and I know very little about Cataclysm, Shamans are not on par with the majority of classes. One spec will be good, but the other 2 will fall behind isn't how the game should be played. Allow Skill to make the difference is my idea, not because certain classes have more utility than another.
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680
I see no mention of Hex. Is it really that bad?

There must be alternative ways to stay alive. Priests wear cloth and don't have CCs either aside from a short Fear, no?

You've clearly never played a good Shadow or Disc Priest, have you?

Hell, even Holy Priests all now get Chastise...


Hex is nice. All us Shaman love Hex. But it's not good for locking down a target, it's only good for telling somebody "Hey, leave me alone while I pound on your friend."

What Shaman would like is a short Stun we can use to hurt somebody while they sit their drooling. We want to make OTHER people /bendover for once.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305

What Shaman would like is a short Stun we can use to hurt somebody while they sit their drooling. We want to make OTHER people /bendover for once.

I wouldn't say lets make OTHER people /bendover for once, more lets make shamans overall better, but please don't make us OP. I don't want to try to defend us when I know we are OP because I wont.

What Shamans need is a spam-able CC to allow us to handle all roles: Melee, Casters, Healers.

We really need a way to help CC healers.
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680

What Shaman would like is a short Stun we can use to hurt somebody while they sit their drooling. We want to make OTHER people /bendover for once.

I wouldn't say lets make OTHER people /bendover for once, more lets make shamans overall better, but please don't make us OP. I don't want to try to defend us when I know we are OP because I wont.

What Shamans need is a spam-able CC to allow us to handle all roles: Melee, Casters, Healers.

We really need a way to help CC healers.

Well I wasn't saying to make us OP. I just wanna be able to return the favor the next time a Rogue jumps me. :o
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85 Tauren Shaman
2970
What Shaman would like is a short Stun we can use to hurt somebody while they sit their drooling. We want to make OTHER people /bendover for once.[/quote]
I play elamental in BG's and yeah for once id like to make someone else feel helpless while i pound on them some. Hex is nice as long as the target takes no damage but with the up comming rated bg's hex i think will be a bit useless once the crowds clash and all the different types of aoe damage just take the hex right back off. mean while every class laughs and shuts our spell bar down or freezes us silences us well anyone who has BG'd lately will know this.
I feel hex would be great if it was updated to not come off it the target takes damage. Or maybe if it is the hexed target takes damage or suffers a slowing effect for a set time.
This is just something i think and only an opinion.
/moo
Edited by Madcôw on 11/7/2010 4:50 PM PST
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85 Dwarf Shaman
4610
id love some type of stun. iv seen Tauren Enh shamans rip people up with just there little stun. a shadow priest can just lock down a shaman like no other. i say a glyph for frost shock that takes away the slow and gives a stun.
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680
id love some type of stun. iv seen Tauren Enh shamans rip people up with just there little stun. a shadow priest can just lock down a shaman like no other. i say a glyph for frost shock that takes away the slow and gives a stun.

Or just give us a new Frost spell that encases an enemy in ice, stunning them for 4 seconds. Unless Mages really think it'd be that big of a deal for us to copy a spell from them, when we do have access to the same powers of Frost and Fire...

Leave Frost Shock alone, I use it to root. :(
Edited by Matuk on 11/7/2010 5:21 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
I think I will jump on Enh. Because its no where OP, but because I love to Wind Fury and when I'm done Wind Furying, I start up another Wind Fury.

But seriously, I love enh. so much. I personally think its the greatest game play in the game. I'v been elemental for the entire WotLK because Enh was horrible. I still think it will be Horrible, but man I love running around with crazy stuff, however I need new PvP gear lol.
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90 Goblin Shaman
15860
I was actually hoping that Frostbrand's Unleash Weapon effect would be a 3-4 sec ice stun.
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80 Draenei Shaman
3480

Agree, a stun or another silence would be awesome. Or maybe just make Hex instacast?
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85 Goblin Shaman
3805
From a global perspective just giving out stuns to too many classes will ruin the game, which is a road we are already headed on. You sometimes get lucky and can dps through a hex and wind sear is a form of cc that isn't mentioned. We have enough tools in a group scenario to make us very useful without a stun.
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680
wind sear is a form of cc that isn't mentioned.

Every single melee class as a form of Interrupt similar to Wind Shear, and so do many of the ranged classes. Yet they continue to get new and improved ways of completely disabling all ways of controlling your character AND bursting you from 100 to 0 during that disable.

We have enough tools in a group scenario to make us very useful without a stun.

No...we don't. But I guess you won't see that until 85. We're supposed to be the jack of all trades, master of none...
So why don't we have Stun as one of our trades?
Edited by Matuk on 11/7/2010 7:30 PM PST
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85 Troll Shaman
6120
wind sear is a form of cc that isn't mentioned.

Every single melee class as a form of Interrupt similar to Wind Shear, and so do many of the ranged classes. Yet they continue to get new and improved ways of completely disabling all ways of controlling your character AND bursting you from 100 to 0 during that disable.

We have enough tools in a group scenario to make us very useful without a stun.

No...we don't. But I guess you won't see that until 85. We're supposed to be the jack of all trades, master of none...
So why don't we have Stun as one of our trades?


Spirit Wolfs have a stun.
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680
wind sear is a form of cc that isn't mentioned.

Every single melee class as a form of Interrupt similar to Wind Shear, and so do many of the ranged classes. Yet they continue to get new and improved ways of completely disabling all ways of controlling your character AND bursting you from 100 to 0 during that disable.

We have enough tools in a group scenario to make us very useful without a stun.

No...we don't. But I guess you won't see that until 85. We're supposed to be the jack of all trades, master of none...
So why don't we have Stun as one of our trades?


Spirit Wolfs have a stun.

We don't. And we can't control that Stun. It's still bugged to where the moment you cast Feral Spirit, the first thing they do to the first thing they attack is Bash.

I also can't believe you're perfectly fine with us relying so heavily on our Spirit Wolves in order to perform well in PvP.
Edited by Matuk on 11/7/2010 7:52 PM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
Don't get angry at each other.
The idea of this post is to flush ideas.

I brought this up because as of right now, Shamans are gimped. We really don't have great tools vs melee or any other role.

List of our CC:
1. Hex
2. Earth Bind Totem
3. Wind Shear
4. Bind Elemental
5. Frost Shock

Now lets look at how other classes are:
Mages:
1. Frost Nova
2. Ice Block
3. Counter Spell
4. Polymorph
5. Frostbolt

All Shamans and All Mages have these spells. Look at how it now changes when you get specs involved.

Shamans:
1. Ele: AoE Root
2. Enh: Single Root
3. Enh: 2 min Pet Stun

Mages:
1. Arcane: 10 cd poly stun
2. Frost: 5 sec Stun
3. All Mages can reach: 4 second Silence
4. Fire: Blast wave Snare
5. Fire: Dragons Breath 5 second Disoriented

As you can see, we are similar, however, Mages gain bonuses to CC for all specs, not just 2. I may have also forgotten some things too. People will say that shamans can heal, that is also true, however, heals wont heal as much as people think, they will not be ground breaking no more. Also, blizzard has given everyone some way to heal, mages got Evocation, Warlocks got that Soul Reaper, Warriors got Rage Healer, etc. Basically healing is no longer an excuse for people to say Shamans can heal and their class cant because that's a lie now, even rogues can heal lol.

Look I'm not looking for OP, maybe if Hex was Spam-able, then we would be fine, but we know that wont happen unless we try hard to focus on our class and spreed out ideas.
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83 Blood Elf Mage
11310

We don't. And we can't control that Stun. It's still bugged to where the moment you cast Feral Spirit, the first thing they do to the first thing they attack is Bash.

I also can't believe you're perfectly fine with us relying so heavily on our Spirit Wolves in order to perform well in PvP.


Um... just turn Bash auto-cast off and macro it to something? <.<

I do believe that a stun would help improve Enh in terms of PvP. It's nice that the puppies got one, but having to rely on a 2min CD for it when other classes got stuns in rather short CDs doesn't seem so right.

Unleash Elements + FB would have been a nice way to implement a stun since EB totem, Frost shock and Frozen Power already do a decent job in snare and rooting. The CD, however, would be too short for a stun :/

Self-healing methods have been nerfed recently (evo heals 40% of total hp now), but since they scale with total hp they might have advantage over an Enh shammy self-healing capabilities with 5MW. Not to mention that getting 5MW can be hard if you can not get close to your target (dont blame me for loving frost <.<) and can get dispelled/spellstolen.

In short, IMO, a stun would be a welcomed improvement for shammy survivability in PvP, as long as it is not spammable and OP.
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680

We don't. And we can't control that Stun. It's still bugged to where the moment you cast Feral Spirit, the first thing they do to the first thing they attack is Bash.

I also can't believe you're perfectly fine with us relying so heavily on our Spirit Wolves in order to perform well in PvP.

Um... just turn Bash auto-cast off and macro it to something? <.<

It's bugged. It's always auto-casted.

Unleash Elements + FB would have been a nice way to implement a stun since EB totem, Frost shock and Frozen Power already do a decent job in snare and rooting. The CD, however, would be too short for a stun :/

I was downright shocked that all the unleash effect did was add an extra 20% to the FB snare.
WHOOP-DE-DO BASIL!
Edited by Matuk on 11/7/2010 9:54 PM PST
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