Shamans Deserve More CC's towards PvP

83 Blood Elf Mage
11310

It's bugged. It's always auto-casted.

I was downright shocked that all the unleash effect did was add an extra 20% to the FB snare.
WHOOP-DE-DO BASIL!


Funny, I've never had Bash getting auto-casted issues. I just turned it off and macro'ed it to my Feral Spirit button, and they bash when I want to. Then again, long time I used my small shammy for PvP, so I'm not sure if it always auto-casts on players.

I'm not sure what I was expecting for FB Unleash Elements, but yeah, seeing that it is only an extra amount of snare doesnt sound very appealing. And if it happens to be dispellable magic then it will be even less useful if a healer is around.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
4610
First off, i love how another class is saying yes to a stun for shamans

but i just want something i can do when T-storm is on CD to get away from melee. yes i could earthgrap but i normaly just die by the time i can get away :|
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680
First off, i love how another class is saying yes to a stun for shamans
but i just want something i can do when T-storm is on CD to get away from melee. yes i could earthgrap but i normaly just die by the time i can get away :|

We're also the only melee class without some form of Stun.

And we can't run away the way Druids can, either.



"Oh, but you have Hex, QQ!"
Yeah. And you have a PvP trinket! >(
Edited by Matuk on 11/7/2010 10:38 PM PST
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80 Orc Shaman
7595
As it stands right now I find we are fine against other casters, except say a skilled frost mage with all their cd's up. Grounding totem, wind shear, and purging key buffs go a long way.

Were i find myself feeling helpless is against melee. Its near impossible to get away from them. So what I'm suggesting is bring back something similar to the fire nova totem stun. It was only a 2 seconds stun on a cd, but it was enough to get away and force them to use a gap closer for something other than, elemental, thunderstorm. Make it spawn from our earth totem but player used, it would serve a dual purpose in that it would make a healer think instead of the automatic reaction of totem stomping, and give us a way to get away from melee.

Yes I know as elemental have an aoe root, but it does not get the shamans spell pen and can be resisted. Frost shock instant ghost wolf is great but doesn't do enough majority of the time, especially considering the tied shock cds.

Again my experience is as elemental, and we are in the best spot of all 3 specs currently but an equally skilled melee is impossible to get rid of in an arena environment with dispels and gap closers.
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It's bugged. It's always auto-casted.

This got fixed several months ago.
Edited by Eklo on 11/8/2010 4:37 AM PST
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our defensive stuff would be a lot better if it wasn't completely ignored by seemingly every class. i'd rather have something that can't be affected by the other person's abilities, like a blink type spell
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85 Draenei Shaman
4260
Well there are two lines currently.

There are the shamans who are enjoying their PvP as whatever spec and who see no need for a change.

Then theres those who haven't hit the skillcap needed to take full advantage of the tools shamans have and want an easier time PvPing.

The only thing that needs to change is Hex Not having a cooldown. Since shamans have no other CC, its typically trinketed and thus useless. Its only solid use is in BGs or maybe arena after another class has forced an opponent to use their trinket. This however, is the developers design. We are considered a SUPPORT class, meant to work in a team to be fully effective. In other words, the developers have us where they want us.

We had a stun for awhile remember? It was on fire nova totem. They took it from us because they wanted us to remember we're 2nd class citizens.

A silence? When we interrupt (which is between 4-6 seconds) with wind shear we also silence for 2 seconds from that class of spells. Its not much but its what makes us annoying to uhhh....wait mages don't cast unless we're stunned, locks have only 1 real cast time spell and priests will dot dot fear then cast so uh...yeah elemental can't really take advantage of the interrupt against other casters so maybe that should be looked into. Enhancement and resto can abuse the hell outta it so Maybe Elemental needs a talent to make wind shear useable against other casters.

Slows? Earthbind is awesome for all specs and functions as intended. Frost shock rooting as enhance works fine and lets you get in close or forces mages to blink early.

The Verdict: Even though making Hex Spammable is really all we need to have our CC to be on par with other classes and/or making wind shear do more than just interrupt for Elemental shamans(talented) is a simple and effective fix, remember we are 2nd class citizens and will receive no such favor. Pray to the WoW gods for good rain and a plentiful harvest. That's more likely to happen.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
We should construct this post around Shamans as a whole more than specs. Lets get back to how Shamans react to encounters. We as a community need to produce some good ideas but keep them to ideas which are plausible answers to our Survival abilities.
Edited by Thalais on 11/8/2010 9:30 AM PST
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
I will ask the following question then, mainly because we seem to be focused towards 2 CC Fix.

Q. Should Shamans as a class get a Stun?

OR

Q. Should Shamans have Hex changed to be a Spamming CC, similar to Polymorph and change the glyph?


We all seem to like the idea of Hex being a spamming CC and it would fall under the same DR as Polymorph, but I think other classes will complain too much. If they wont let this happen, Maybe Hex needs to be the only CC in the game with a CD that you don't break out by damage. The only way to get out of Hex is to use your Trinket. I would prefer that, it would make it really useful in PvE too, of course Bosses would be immune to it lol but still would be nice
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85 Tauren Shaman
2485
I don't think the developers will ever make hex spammable. for the simple fact that it doesn't break on damage and enhancement can get a insta hex with 5 stacks of maelstrom.

I do love the idea of a 3 second stun though.

Doggy bash is nice but I'd rather be balanced around not having them up all the time.

Some one suggested making a glyph for primal strike to release it from the shared cooldown and make it stun opponents for 3 seconds.
I like that idea the most.

It'll give us a chance to heal or peel melee off of our healer.
as well as a chance for a shock. lash, or stormstrike to come off cooldown.

Maybe UE will solve this problem at 85 but I doubt it.
If we can't get a stun I'd love to have another defensive ability or even a mortal strike.

The amount of good shaman ideas and design I've seen posted on these forums in the past months is enough to start a new class.
Edited by Mëk on 11/8/2010 11:18 AM PST
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83 Blood Elf Mage
11310
Hex being spammable and remaining the way it is would not be very good. It doesnt always break on damage and doesnt heal the target for an absurd amount every second (stupid sheep). Poly is used to control the opponent at the cost of healing him; if Hex was spammable, you could do an enormous amount of damage to the target in the whole 3 uses before DRs (2 if there is trinket) without the drawback of self healing that Poly has or the chance of your opponent getting out of range like it happens with Fear (frogs dont run that fast).

A glyphed stun to Primal strike does sound good if the glyph increases its CD a reasonable amount.
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85 Draenei Shaman
7650
The new Hex glyph helps lowering the CD to 30 secs, but I feel that should be the base CD now.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5305
The only problem I have about the 3 second stun is how can we as a community of Players, not just shamans convince the Devs that Shamans need a stun when they already took the 4 second Fire Nova 2/2 Talent stun out? I mean if they put it back in, that Imp. Fire Nova is too deep in the Enhance Tree for other shamans to grasp.

The Mage makes a good point that Sheep also heals while Frog doesn't. She also makes a good point that the frog doesn't move fast, however, I find my self still being chased down by the frog. The purpose of this spell is to make it a CC but when I'm running away and the CC only lasts for 6 seconds, the frog is about 4 seconds behind me. Now that sucks because once it breaks and lets just say its a Warrior, my CC doesn't keep him out of range for a Charge or Intercept; this is one scenario of many.

I like Hex being Spam-able idea because it's a good idea, it gives Shamans a chance to heal up and start the attack or Peel the DPS off our healer.

Brainstorm Alert!!!!

What if Hex was 30 second CD instead of the 45 CD and they changed the Glyph to this:
Once your target of your Hex has Hex removed by damage, dispelled, or trinket, a Debuff is placed on the target that reduces the the affected targets Damage, Healing Received, and Healing output by (%) for (Seconds) {5 or 10 sec}.
I was thinking 25 or 50%.
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90 Tauren Shaman
12680
I think they just need to make Unleash Frost into a Stun effect instead of yet another snare. Frost Shock is on a 5 second cooldown in most pvp specs, and we still have Earthbind, so why would we need a THIRD snare?

When every single spec in the game has some way of countering snares?

Would it really be so OP to give us a 4 second ranged stun on a 15 second cooldown that first requires us to be using an imbue that neither Ele nor Resto tend to have up?
They'd have to spend a GCD to even be able to cast it.

In the case of Enhancement: we're melee, and the fact that we don't already have a 10 second cooldown Stun, when every other melee spec is perfectly capable of disabling opponents, is absolutely appalling.
Edited by Matuk on 11/8/2010 4:25 PM PST
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85 Goblin Shaman
5225
While the thought of having Hex a spammable CC sounds amazing, it would be op. LSD and such already have enough spammable CC as is. Between the lock fears and druid clones it can be rough. Adding another spammable hex to that would be too much. Maybe make the spammable CC just for enhance at best, even then though that sounds weird.
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85 Troll Shaman
6490
I will ask the following question then, mainly because we seem to be focused towards 2 CC Fix.
Q. Should Shamans as a class get a Stun?
OR
Q. Should Shamans have Hex changed to be a Spamming CC, similar to Polymorph and change the glyph?

Stasis totem from war3 troll witchdoctors imo.
Stasis totem
Air totem
5 hp
15 yard range
20 sec CD
Drops a stasis totem on the ground, which arms after two seconds, going invisible. Anyone entering the 15 yards triggers the totem setting off an explosion, stunning them for 6 seconds.

Easily countered like most of our tots, with one hit, but only a small window of opportunity. Though can be avoided easily if they are paying attention. Will give melee pause from just charging in, and Pwning us.
Edited by Okaithul on 11/8/2010 8:00 PM PST
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85 Troll Shaman
2545
I think that hex on a CD is fine, reduce the CD to 30 seconds, leave the glyph the way it is and it wont be to OP. That would give a 15second CD on hex, this should be acceptable to most.

I like the idea of a stun, but i think it might be best implemented using a new totem. The totem would be similar in function to the grounding totem, where damage is absorbed and the totem causes the attacker to be stunned for 3 seconds. A 3 second stun will allow a shaman to get away, heal, or just recoup briefly.

For balance put the totem on a 20 second CD, and any damage caused causes the totem to be destroyed.

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80 Troll Priest
3220
It would be nice to have a stun in each of the two DPS lines.

Having Thunderstorm stun for 3 seconds after they land from the toss would probably do for Elemental Shaman. It has a cooldown, it has range limitations, and it would provide the needed setup to follow-up with something useful. It is an AoE ability, but I think the point-blank range and the cooldown would put it pretty well into balance.

For Enhancement Shaman, they have the Bash from the spirit wolf, but the bash itself is only 2 seconds, on a 45 second cooldown, and the wolves have a 2 minute cooldown. I'd like to see some complexity added, make their primary defensive cooldown also have an offensive component so they must decide when to use it. I would like to see the wolves lose the stun in favor of a snare and for Shamanistic Rage to gain this: "Also causes your next successful melee attack or single-target magic attack to stun the target for 4 seconds".
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85 Dwarf Shaman
Eos
5275
I think that the lack of CCs only truly becomes an issue in a 1v1 setting. Hopefully, since PVP may be geared more toward rated BGs than arenas, this issue will be negligible. I personally feel that elemental shaman have a sufficient amount of CC abilities at the moment however. Between hex, earthbind slow and root, frost shock and thunderstorm I think that an elemental shaman has more than enough CC when combined with its burst damage potential and healing abilities. I neglected to even mention the ever OP wind shear or grounding totem which may or may not be classified as CC, but nevertheless contribute to an elemental shamans survivability.
Seeing as I have little to no experience playing as restoration or enhancement in PVP I'm not able to comment on their CC abilities. However, if they do indeed need additional CC then I feel it should be a spec exclusive solution, not a class wide spell.
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