The Sad state of Priests come Cataclysm.

85 Blood Elf Priest
9950
Could we get any information regarding what the Devs think of Chakra in its current state? Or any possibility to make it work like stances or hunter aspects?

Thank you.
Edited by Elsinnombre on 11/18/2010 3:26 PM PST
[quote]

I think you missed what I said, the clock (while ticking) doesn't end with the release of Cataclysm. Time goes on and so will changes as they need to be made.


While I greatly appreciate your response in this thread, this is simply unacceptable from a customer perspective. Admittedly, I do not know what all goes into class balance, I just have a hard time believing you cannot fix the obvious problems related to the class by ship date.


Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder (when someone doesn't look at the larger picture.) What you may see as an "obvious problem" may not be a problem at all other than in how you're approaching it. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great, but we definitely plan to keep an eye out on things and have additional ideas should they be necessary to implement.


Oh Cmon! please tell me that was sarcastic or you are just here to laugh at all of us.

I mean look at this thread basically you have got the attention of some of the best priest PvP players in the world to what is happening to priest, everyone, every single player that have beta or at least that watch what is going on in beta knows that priests have by far not only the worst healing specs in the game, but the worst spec in the game and completely unviable because of the many problems already said in this thread that have not been adressed at all.

this post has completely smashed and reduced my faith in blizzard's currently developers and their eyes towards balancing the game (see: holy paladins)
Edited by Nuba on 11/18/2010 4:17 PM PST
90 Undead Priest
11810
I am rather curious as to how the 20% increase to healing spells translated in Beta. Anyone have any info on that?


Beta is currently down so I can't give you in game data, but on paper it looks to put holy above and disc on par with paladin single target healing.


PvP balance aside, I've had more fun playing my priest in the beta than the entirety of wotlk. I find chakra to be an enjoyable mechanic although I liked it a bit more with a 1 minute cooldown.
People have been complaining about mana problems for the past 2 years but it wasn't buffed because many of us don't have issues with it. Priests are in a great spot in cataclysm. Healer balance has been extremely close for the past few builds, this recent buff might even be too much. Live is a mess and I really do feel sorry for those of you who are unable to experience 85 balance.

I'm not exactly sure how they can tweak things so that pvp is enjoyable for those of you who participate without breaking the new pve healing model. Its likely that the other healers will be toned down, smite and focused will buffed.
85 Undead Priest
6325
To the above poster, pve was never a concern for this thread

Holy is not a viable spec for arena, but the sad part is its actually 10x better then disc with the way shields and penance are

Not to mention our mana efficiency and burst potential (burst being our strong point over other healers) which are both worse then that of a paladin atm.
Edited by Coded on 11/18/2010 4:10 PM PST
^ pretty much exactly what every pvp priest is thinking atm

Sorry but the current implementation of discipline priests in pvp is unacceptable, 20% base healing to flash heal is not a fix for our class for competitive pvp.

I suppose the "^" was to my post and not the pve biased dude
90 Dwarf Priest
14975
I am rather curious as to how the 20% increase to healing spells translated in Beta. Anyone have any info on that?


Beta is currently down so I can't give you in game data, but on paper it looks to put holy above and disc on par with paladin single target healing.


PvP balance aside, I've had more fun playing my priest in the beta than the entirety of wotlk. I find chakra to be an enjoyable mechanic although I liked it a bit more with a 1 minute cooldown.
People have been complaining about mana problems for the past 2 years but it wasn't buffed because many of us don't have issues with it. Priests are in a great spot in cataclysm. Healer balance has been extremely close for the past few builds, this recent buff might even be too much. Live is a mess and I really do feel sorry for those of you who are unable to experience 85 balance.

I'm not exactly sure how they can tweak things so that pvp is enjoyable for those of you who participate without breaking the new pve healing model. Its likely that the other healers will be toned down, smite and focused will buffed.


I find that Chakra being on a 30 second cooldown severely trivializes the State of Mind talent. Though the switch to Chakra: PoH/PoM and the removal Chakra: Renew is nice and all, I find that is trivializes Chakra altogether and wish there were more option (not counting Chakra: Smite).

During WoltK there was certainly a certain tier of gear in which mana regen was an issue but that was sooooo far ago (Naxx25 gear was more than sufficient until the nerf, which was not as severe as it seemed).

I can compete with resto shamans and resto druids pretty well as holy on fights like heroic BQL and dominate fights like heroic Lady D and normal LK rather easily, at least post 4.0.1.

Now the question is, are people saying mana is an issue in beta the same people who say mana is an issue now?
85 Gnome Priest
4150
I do not know a single Priest that is happy with the way Disc Priests are performing in Cata PvP at the moment. It is not unusual for players to come to the boards and whine about their class in hope of buffs, but usually, you see the same from every other class. Not this time. People may argue about which is the stronger healer currently, but no one, and I mean NO ONE, argues the fact that Priests are currently drop dead bottom by all measures available.



The main problems:

- Priests have the least throughput

- Priests have the worst mana efficiency

- Priests have no mobility

- Priests rely on PW:S, DA, PoM for survival, and thus (like druids) have been completely shafted by the removal of dispel resistance mechanics

- Our only real defensive CD, Pain Suppression, is now very dispellable and has an increased CD to 3 mins to boot

- Penance has a longer cooldown and heals for a puny % of a healthbar - this has made it less reliable compared to WotLK, and forced us to spam a low throughput, bad efficiency FH



Worst of all, the Priest healer niche has been eroded



While the bottom 3 points are very valid, the top 3 (throughput, mana efficiency and mobility) have ALWAYS been Priest "issues". Up until now it's been okay - it was the trade-off we made to get all the tools that made Priests the "offensive healer" number one. Smite damage. Two dots. Offensive and defensive dispel. Fear.



Now, every healer has defensive dispel. Every healer has a viable nuke similar to Smite, or even better (see Exorcism which costs like 0 mana, has a chance to proc instant, and has a lower cast time). All we have left that is unique is absorbs (gutted because of the dispel mechanic changes and apparent lack of scaling from 80 to 85), one of two classes with offensive dispel, and Fear.



You tell me with a straight face that those three things are worth having the worst mobility, worst survivability, worst throughput and worst mana efficiency.



The 20% buff to base healing on FH, GH, Heal and Binding Heal was a step in the right direction. But is is far from enough. The fact is, PvP-wise, the only thing that changed was that FH now heals for 20% more, since neither Heal nor GH are viable with current cast times. That small buff does NOT change the situation - we still have the same problems that I listed above.



This is pretty much a cry for help. I love my Priest, as do most of the Priest community, but with the way Cata has been shaping up, a lot of us have been rerolling Paladins. We wouldn't do that if the gap in viability was not huge, believe me.



Over at Arena Junkies, there's a ~30 page thread of good objective (as far as the WoW community goes :)) discussion about possible changes that could save Priests. I am going to link the discussion here, and post a list of suggested changes (some my own, some by others) to kick off the discussion.



Please try to be objective, and try to consider that suggested changes

- CANNOT buff Shadow Priests (apart from maybe a bit of mana efficiency)

- MUST be in line with the current design intent for healers, PvP and PvE that Blizzard is pursuing (otherwise, how are we going to get heard). This means no buffing PW:S and Penance PvE throughput into oblivion - the changes need to make us want to use FH, GH and Heal.



Link to thread: http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=214833



(see the post below for a list of some of the suggestions - there was not enough room in this post)



There are more on the Arena Junkies thread. Please note that we are NOT asking for ALL of these to be implemented. That would bring us out of line. The point of this thread is to compile a list of reasonable, thoroughly considered suggestions from which the developers can cherry pick ideas that they like.



Please discuss - post more suggestions, and discuss the viability of those listed. Keep it civil and to the point. Do not make non-constructive posts. We want Blizzard to listen to us, and whining is not the way to go about that.



Let's bring attention to these issues before Cata ships so we can enjoy playing our class in the new expansion!

-By Moridinnz
85 Gnome Priest
4150
List of some of the suggestions:





- Return Archangel/Evangelism to its old state before nerfs. Make Evangelism a 3-stack instead of a 5-stack to 15% increased damage on Smite/HF, and make it stack on Holy Fire as well (The +dmg buff wouldnt matter since you would need to cast 3 smites to even get it up, but the +healing buff and mana gain would help towards fixing both priest mana issues and healing issues).

- Add this to Rapture: "if your Power Word: Shield is dispelled, the target is instantly healed for 75% of the remaining absorb amount of the shield."

- Make Flash Heal affect Strength of Soul. Make Strength of Soul a 3 point talent, and reduce it to 1/2/3 sec. Make Divine Aegis a 2-point talent (15/30%) The extra talent point for SoS is to make it less OP (3s instead of 4s) - compensating for that talent point by making Divine Aegis a 2 pointer.

- Make Inner Focus work with Divine Hymn and Mass Dispel. Increase CD to 1 minute or more to compensate.

- Remake Glyph of Dispel Magic to be similar to the Cleanse glyph that Paladins have (-20% mana cost)

- Make Pain Suppression undispellable, reduce CD to 2.5mins and take it off the GCD like other big defensive CDs.

- Make PW:S stack Grace

- Lower mana cost on Holy Fire and Smite

- Give healing Priests a talent like Holy Paladins that gives you hit rating based on spirit (tie to an existing talent)

- Increase the healing of Desperate Prayer, increase the CD accordingly.

- Train of Thought is useless in both PvE and PvP and should be reworked. Possibly make it similar to Paladin's "Speed of Light" talent and make it reduce the cast time on next Heal/Greater Heal by 15/30% after casting a PW:S or Penance - this would make casting Heal/GH worthwhile.

- Take Inner Will and Inner Fire off the GCD to make swapping back and forth more viable.

- Fix SW: D on Polymorph casts - currently it does not break Poly when you have a shield on you. This was one of the few classy and skilled moves Priests had left that allowed us to "make a play" as they say in the NFL. Please do not take it away from us.

- Reduce the base mana cost of all priest heals by 10% (this is one change that would benefit SP's in a way that is okay - currently, healing as a Shadow Priest is not even a consideration as we have enough mana issues trying to keep damage going already).

- Buff the throughput of Penance, Renew, PoM and PW:S by 20% like the other heals

by Moridinnz
85 Undead Priest
5690
Is there any word on priest regen? I know a big part of cata is to make healers be more cautious and not faceroll heals, but Priest regen is horrible atm. I'm just hoping that isn't the case at 85.
85 Gnome Priest
4150
[quote]

I think you missed what I said, the clock (while ticking) doesn't end with the release of Cataclysm. Time goes on and so will changes as they need to be made.


While I greatly appreciate your response in this thread, this is simply unacceptable from a customer perspective. Admittedly, I do not know what all goes into class balance, I just have a hard time believing you cannot fix the obvious problems related to the class by ship date.


Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder (when someone doesn't look at the larger picture.) What you may see as an "obvious problem" may not be a problem at all other than in how you're approaching it. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great, but we definitely plan to keep an eye out on things and have additional ideas should they be necessary to implement.


We have stated many issues of the priest class its time to realize that for once you guys are wrong and fix the issues... You really don't understand issues on the pvp side at all and pve, if your telling us priests are fine...

Also how can you make the paladin class so op again? Do you not realize the paladin class replaces priests in every single way I myself going to be playing paladin if changes aren't fix soon.
dear Blizzard Developers, we are not here asking to be overpowered, we are asking to be COMPETITIVE.
85 Undead Priest
3930
By what Nethaera is saying blizzard intends to release priests as they are now and "might" fix them during season 9

I'm sorry but as a priest since release this is the worst weve been competitively in WoW

Not to mention priests are supposed to shine the first 2 seasons of an expansion before druids take our comps over, now were the worst starting


Please refrain from "interpreting" what I've said. That is not what I said nor what I'm implying. When the next major patch releases, we'll talk more and see where you're at. Then we'll talk some more and see if we can find out what the root issues are and I'll convey them to the development team. Sometimes though, the answer is "no" or "we don't see it." I'm not saying either of those things right now. I'm just letting you know that we may not always agree with you.


The problem is the priest community has been pointing out the problems for some time now. Look at Chakra for example we have been giving alternative ways of implementing it for the past month or two. It's almost as if the Developers have their own idea, and are not willing to listen to the community at all. There are some glaring holes on all 3 priest classes, and we are only a few days from Cata release.

You guys asked show us details. We did.
You guys asked show us the numbers. We did.
You guys asked show us alternatives. We did.

But you guys haven't listened to a word we have been saying lately.
85 Worgen Priest
7640
By what Nethaera is saying blizzard intends to release priests as they are now and "might" fix them during season 9

I'm sorry but as a priest since release this is the worst weve been competitively in WoW

Not to mention priests are supposed to shine the first 2 seasons of an expansion before druids take our comps over, now were the worst starting


Please refrain from "interpreting" what I've said. That is not what I said nor what I'm implying. When the next major patch releases, we'll talk more and see where you're at. Then we'll talk some more and see if we can find out what the root issues are and I'll convey them to the development team. Sometimes though, the answer is "no" or "we don't see it." I'm not saying either of those things right now. I'm just letting you know that we may not always agree with you.
Well I do hope you have a fix for the Vampiric Touch being dispelled having its effecting being a Buff and macroed out off issue, but I'll wait till after the next patch to discuss that seeing as you may have already fixed it and I don't know.

Thanks Nethaera. *hugs* Kind of odd hugging a candle, but I'll do it anyways.
Lets hope these mystery changes that are coming will save us eh? Those ones that'll reset our trees? >_>
85 Undead Priest
6805
this post is a joke and too say priest wont be good is a joke, at this moment and time priest are on top of the world my mind blast alone hits for 40000 with 3 orbs, and my mana regen never gets below 90%, only worry about the present! your making us priest look bad and quit QQing
85 Dwarf Priest
6725
this post is a joke and too say priest wont be good is a joke, at this moment and time priest are on top of the world my mind blast alone hits for 40000 with 3 orbs, and my mana regen never gets below 90%, only worry about the present! your making us priest look bad and quit QQing


Woops! Relating your shadow priest PvE experiences at level 80 does not have any bearing on Disc Priest PvP experiences at level 85. Try to stay on topic.
85 Gnome Priest
5585
[quote]

I think you missed what I said, the clock (while ticking) doesn't end with the release of Cataclysm. Time goes on and so will changes as they need to be made.


While I greatly appreciate your response in this thread, this is simply unacceptable from a customer perspective. Admittedly, I do not know what all goes into class balance, I just have a hard time believing you cannot fix the obvious problems related to the class by ship date.


Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder (when someone doesn't look at the larger picture.) What you may see as an "obvious problem" may not be a problem at all other than in how you're approaching it. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great, but we definitely plan to keep an eye out on things and have additional ideas should they be necessary to implement.


Basically this reads: Why don't you guys try out your 20% healing buffs before anything is said. Little does blizzard know the 20% healing buff did absolutely nothing to address our problems. Our mastery does nothing for our shields that can be dispelled. Our shields hold nothing. Penance sucks. Pain suppression gets dispelled. Our barrier is now a suppression because of PVE. Our mana is absolutely terrible. Penance hits for not much more than level 80 with our health pools grown like 4x the amount. Our offensive role is now a joke.

TL;DR: THE 20% BUFFS WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING
72 Undead Priest
1090
[quote]

I think you missed what I said, the clock (while ticking) doesn't end with the release of Cataclysm. Time goes on and so will changes as they need to be made.


While I greatly appreciate your response in this thread, this is simply unacceptable from a customer perspective. Admittedly, I do not know what all goes into class balance, I just have a hard time believing you cannot fix the obvious problems related to the class by ship date.


Balance isn't as easy as some seem to think and often balance is in the eye of the beholder (when someone doesn't look at the larger picture.) What you may see as an "obvious problem" may not be a problem at all other than in how you're approaching it. We believe priests will be in good shape if not great, but we definitely plan to keep an eye out on things and have additional ideas should they be necessary to implement.


Basically this reads: Why don't you guys try out your 20% healing buffs before anything is said. Little does blizzard know the 20% healing buff did absolutely nothing to address our problems. Our mastery does nothing for our shields that can be dispelled. Our shields hold nothing. Penance sucks. Pain suppression gets dispelled. Our barrier is now a suppression because of PVE. Our mana is absolutely terrible. Penance hits for not much more than level 80 with our health pools grown like 4x the amount. Our offensive role is now a joke.

TL;DR: THE 20% BUFFS WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING


Hmm this is making me think about playing a shaman I would be able to purge basically everything a priest puts out making a priest completely useless, yes? Perhaps even better than a Paladin in terms of offensive healer/dps at least for rated bgs.
Edited by Exhume on 11/18/2010 6:27 PM PST
85 Draenei Death Knight
4120
Speaking strictly from my experience in PVE with both disc and holy priest healing (I have healed as both at 85) they are by no means weak. Disc has the hardest hitting heals in the game since the grace buff.

As far as pvp? No idea, they may be extremely weak.
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