The Sad state of Priests come Cataclysm.

85 Blood Elf Priest
8920
I don't wanna re-role T_T
85 Dwarf Priest
7225
I am actually in disbelief that priests are even being considered in good shape if not great only two weeks before Cata goes live.

I'm just ... speechless.

They're asked for data. It's been given.
They're asked for patience. It's been given.
They're asked for suggestions. They're been given plenty of them.

But not to worry guys, 20% base healing to spells that have cast times (read: priests can't cast because there's a warrior/feral/rogue/dk/shaman/whatever else training us and we have no mobility). That'll fix us!

See you in CATA! On my paladin!
85 Goblin Priest
6150
Then we'll talk some more and see if we can find out what the root issues are and I'll convey them to the development team. Sometimes though, the answer is "no" or "we don't see it."


my already low confidence of blizzard devs is now shattered. Play one arena game on a priest against a holy paladin or any other healer and compare your healing, mana efficiency (you will be lucky if the paladin is below 60% mana when you are oom with no fiend or hymn), and survivability. A full penance is out-damaged by a warrior WHITE CRIT, your pain sup will be dispelled by anyone with a brain nearly instantly, and you will proceed to desperately spam flash until you are oom soon after.

Also, the priest niche for being the "offensive healer" is completely ruined with our mediocre damage and the fact that we can no longer afford to do damage in the first place since we are madly spamming inefficient flashes in a futile attempt to survive. the part that pisses me off the most though is the fact that PALADINS received the greatest offensive power of all the healers they could have given it to. This makes paladins the best DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE healer in the game.

I could go on, but im bored of ranting. priests are garbage and not viable in the least in competitive play.
87 Blood Elf Priest
12610

Please refrain from "interpreting" what I've said. That is not what I said nor what I'm implying. When the next major patch releases, we'll talk more and see where you're at. Then we'll talk some more and see if we can find out what the root issues are and I'll convey them to the development team.


If the devs think priest pvp @ 85 is balanced, can they say so? Explicitly? Because not acknowledging that the entire beta pvp community thinks healing priests are terrible seems strange. Saying that priests (Non-shadow specifically) are in a good pvp place is akin to arguing that the sky is green, it simply doesn't mesh with what everyone else sees.

Priest's have:
  • Zero mobility/escape skills

  • A greatly increased vulnerability to offensive dispels

  • Terrible mana efficency, and the most easily counterd methods of in-combat regen (shadowfiend/hymn)

  • A greatly weakend PWS and penance


  • Some of those are hold overs from previous design, some is new with the 4.0 changes. The result is a combined, "Worst of both Worlds" effect. All dps classes have an easier time locking out casting and punishing players they're dpsing. This in turn makes mobility, and the ability to escape those situations all the more paramount, and priest's have no tools to do so. Any other healer can do everything a priest can currently, but better.

    These threads are getting more and more desperate because players are rapidly coming to the conclusion that Blizzard does not see what we see. And even if the devs woke up tomorrow and realized the issues, there are limits to how fast you guys can patch things. I fully expect to spend a great deal of time as little more than a doormat for opposing players, and a complete deadweight on my team, regardless of how well I play. I remember speccing and glyphing for Spirit of Redemption in s5 so that after I died (there was no way to save a priest in a group setting) I could heal for a while. I really hope I don't look back at that as the good old days.
    90 Undead Priest
    4355
    I don't think Priest will be bad in PvE. Most any PvE issues also tend to be straight forward changes.

    PvP wise, my experience on beta both playing as and against priests, as a mediocre casual BGer, is that Priest's horrible mobility combined with the new healing model is making them too easy to tunnel, especially for melee dps. There's basically nothing they can do to stop it. They can't cast any significant heals on the move (and what they can cast can be dispelled), they can't speed themselves up to get away, they can't slow you down to get away, and they can't incapacitate you to get away. Once you're on them, they have one fear to get you off, which can easily be trinketed or broken/blocked by abilities like lichborn. After that, it's more or less game over. They quickly get behind on heals from stuns/silences/interrupts and are forced into flash heals to desperately try and keep up, which ooms them in a heartbeat. They pretty much have to hope somebody saves them. While relying on teammates is of course intended, healing Priests seem entirely helpless alone, moreso than a class should be.

    The new healing model seems to try and encourage not getting behind in the first place, which means mobility to avoid damage is huge and they simply have none. In the past, Priests were more servicable simply because tanking damage was possible and they brought a good dispel and damage. Every healer has defensive dispel now and their offense doesn't seem too special anymore, especially compared to paladins, who's mechanics for damage seem far better designed (fast casting spell with instant procs).

    Disc also seems extremely vulnerable to dispels, with PW:S (the general focus of the spec) and Pain Supp both being dispellable.

    Shadow on the other hand seems fine, assuming Sin and Punishment gets fixed up and they change shadow mastery to be less convoluted.

    At any rate, just my two cents. I could be wrong. Still leveling up this Priest anyway!
    Edited by Byz on 11/18/2010 8:08 PM PST
    85 Night Elf Priest
    8175
    Fixing Priests in PvP is beyond simple.

    -Reduce cooldown of Pain Suppression to 1 minute and make it immune to dispels.
    -Reduce cooldown of Penance back to 6 or 8 seconds
    -Give a super cool Greater Heal glyph for Holy Priests.
    -Have Fade reduce damage taken by X% or give it a Feign Death-like component.
    -Allow easy access to Body and Soul for all Priests. Remove poison component. Add snare immunity while the speed boost is active.
    -Allow us to gain an Evangelism proc every time we use Penance for either dps or healing.
    -Have PW:S heal the target once the bubble breaks or is dispelled.



    Oh, and if Holy is to ever see PvP viability, remove Lightwell and Spirit of Redemption



    Oh look, I just fixed Priests :)
    Edited by Senari on 11/18/2010 8:13 PM PST
    90 Night Elf Priest
    13075
    We’re aware of the current concerns over priest healing and have additional balance changes in store within the beta. As always, constructive feedback based on these experiences is always welcome.


    The sad thing is, it seems most people missed this post.

    Most of the posts in this forum are baseless QQing. If a class isn't unstoppable in PVP you cry that it's underpowered. Well I got news for you, PvP is extremely hard to balance, and with all the different classes and possibilities of specs in this game, it will be a constant fight to make it balanced. There is no magic button that auto-balances the game, stop demanding they press it.

    I've noticed two major things. If a specific class is over-powered, the people who play that over powered class are convinced the game is balanced, and that they are skilled. In contrast, if a class is under-powered, the players of that class know they are under-powered and they make sure everyone else knows as well though public wrist cutting. If you fall into either of these categories, then you are an idiot and your opinion or thoughts on the class are null and void.

    That being said, "constructive feedback" was encouraged and welcome. Crying about your class and saying "oh warriors kill me fast" or "mana goes byebye make it stop mommy" helps absolutely nothing. You have the opportunity to use your brain and actually provide some insight into the class, and hopefully help IMPROVE it.

    Ooo I have an Idea, I'll give an example.

    Hey Blizzard, I see you're increasing some healing spells power by 20%, I'm looking forward to seeing how it changes the game. However, my thoughts so far have been leaning more to decreasing the cast time of heal rather than increasing the power. The amount doesn't matter when the heal lands too late anyways. Obviously we don't want heal to be as fast as flash heal or greater heal, but a 3 second cast time minus talent minus haste is still about 2 seconds for me. At the moment in current content, a lot can happen in two seconds. Bringing it down another half second to 1.5 is probably way too fast also, so possibly somewhere in between. My concern is that as I level to 85, even with gaining some haste from some gear, my 2 second heal might go up to 2.2 or slightly more. This is inevitable, but if I'm forced to use flash heal to compensate for the ever-growing cast time will just destroy mana. However this is fully based on my experience at 80, not 85, so it should be taken with a grain of salt. Also with the gear from 85 raid gear, if my heal drops back down to 2 seconds and below, then obviously decreasing the cast time now would just break it in the future. Another thought, what if serendipity also affected heal, but say only 5% instead of 10%, to get us the occasional heal that's mana efficient, and a bit faster than normal. This is just my outward thinking on the subject, a subject I'm sure has been talked about a TON internally as it is, but still my 2 cents.


    Ok so that was a bit snarky on my part, but the idea is real. Provide real feedback and it might actually help, and even if it doesn't, you can (hopefully) get some respect in the community by being someone who provides an intelligent thought process rather than being a crybaby. Like I said, I'm sure that this specific subject (reducing heal cast time) been discussed a bunch internally, and since the combination of level + haste greatly affects the cast time, just decreasing the cast time more would probably break it later on. This is what we call the thought process.

    I can guarantee you that any post that just cries about your class is fully ignored by blizzard, so in essence you're only hurting the process.
    Atleast our animations are being buffed amirite?

    We may be under powered, but atleast we'll look fabulous with body and soul getting a cosmetic buff, I love the sparkles blizz. :) (( No really, I do. ))

    And our shadow orbs dancing around our ankles just wasn't gonna do. Now we have 2 orbs that are there for 1 stack, 2 stack, and 3 stack. They look pretty, like tiny galaxies, just weird to always have 2, even when we technically have 1, or 3 at given times lol.

    Teasing aside, as I like the coming sparklies for the spec I don't really wanna play, I'm still gonna pay close attention to you blizz guys salvaging our disc stuff, please and thank you. :]
    We’re aware of the current concerns over priest healing and have additional balance changes in store within the beta. As always, constructive feedback based on these experiences is always welcome.


    The sad thing is, it seems most people missed this post.

    Most of the posts in this forum are baseless QQing. If a class isn't unstoppable in PVP you cry that it's underpowered. Well I got news for you, PvP is extremely hard to balance, and with all the different classes and possibilities of specs in this game, it will be a constant fight to make it balanced. There is no magic button that auto-balances the game, stop demanding they press it.

    I've noticed two major things. If a specific class is over-powered, the people who play that over powered class are convinced the game is balanced, and that they are skilled. In contrast, if a class is under-powered, the players of that class know they are under-powered and they make sure everyone else knows as well though public wrist cutting. If you fall into either of these categories, then you are an idiot and your opinion or thoughts on the class are null and void.

    That being said, "constructive feedback" was encouraged and welcome. Crying about your class and saying "oh warriors kill me fast" or "mana goes byebye make it stop mommy" helps absolutely nothing. You have the opportunity to use your brain and actually provide some insight into the class, and hopefully help IMPROVE it.

    Ooo I have an Idea, I'll give an example.

    Hey Blizzard, I see you're increasing some healing spells power by 20%, I'm looking forward to seeing how it changes the game. However, my thoughts so far have been leaning more to decreasing the cast time of heal rather than increasing the power. The amount doesn't matter when the heal lands too late anyways. Obviously we don't want heal to be as fast as flash heal or greater heal, but a 3 second cast time minus talent minus haste is still about 2 seconds for me. At the moment in current content, a lot can happen in two seconds. Bringing it down another half second to 1.5 is probably way too fast also, so possibly somewhere in between. My concern is that as I level to 85, even with gaining some haste from some gear, my 2 second heal might go up to 2.2 or slightly more. This is inevitable, but if I'm forced to use flash heal to compensate for the ever-growing cast time will just destroy mana. However this is fully based on my experience at 80, not 85, so it should be taken with a grain of salt. Also with the gear from 85 raid gear, if my heal drops back down to 2 seconds and below, then obviously decreasing the cast time now would just break it in the future. Another thought, what if serendipity also affected heal, but say only 5% instead of 10%, to get us the occasional heal that's mana efficient, and a bit faster than normal. This is just my outward thinking on the subject, a subject I'm sure has been talked about a TON internally as it is, but still my 2 cents.


    Ok so that was a bit snarky on my part, but the idea is real. Provide real feedback and it might actually help, and even if it doesn't, you can (hopefully) get some respect in the community by being someone who provides an intelligent thought process rather than being a crybaby. Like I said, I'm sure that this specific subject (reducing heal cast time) been discussed a bunch internally, and since the combination of level + haste greatly affects the cast time, just decreasing the cast time more would probably break it later on. This is what we call the thought process.

    I can guarantee you that any post that just cries about your class is fully ignored by blizzard, so in essence you're only hurting the process.


    reported this wall of text as trolling

    you are not aware as its seen that you dont PvP at all how healing priests are terrible at pvp right now on beta
    77 Blood Elf Priest
    1620
    Most of the posts in this forum are baseless QQing.


    Actually posts like yours that cry about the criers on these forums who are expressing their dissatisfaction of priest healing in regards to pvp at 85 just makes "you" look no different than the people you are whinging about if not worse because atleast they havent come here to insult anyone like your ignorant post did.
    85 Gnome Priest
    4150
    We’re aware of the current concerns over priest healing and have additional balance changes in store within the beta. As always, constructive feedback based on these experiences is always welcome.


    The sad thing is, it seems most people missed this post.

    Most of the posts in this forum are baseless QQing. If a class isn't unstoppable in PVP you cry that it's underpowered. Well I got news for you, PvP is extremely hard to balance, and with all the different classes and possibilities of specs in this game, it will be a constant fight to make it balanced. There is no magic button that auto-balances the game, stop demanding they press it.

    I've noticed two major things. If a specific class is over-powered, the people who play that over powered class are convinced the game is balanced, and that they are skilled. In contrast, if a class is under-powered, the players of that class know they are under-powered and they make sure everyone else knows as well though public wrist cutting. If you fall into either of these categories, then you are an idiot and your opinion or thoughts on the class are null and void.

    That being said, "constructive feedback" was encouraged and welcome. Crying about your class and saying "oh warriors kill me fast" or "mana goes byebye make it stop mommy" helps absolutely nothing. You have the opportunity to use your brain and actually provide some insight into the class, and hopefully help IMPROVE it.

    Ooo I have an Idea, I'll give an example.

    Hey Blizzard, I see you're increasing some healing spells power by 20%, I'm looking forward to seeing how it changes the game. However, my thoughts so far have been leaning more to decreasing the cast time of heal rather than increasing the power. The amount doesn't matter when the heal lands too late anyways. Obviously we don't want heal to be as fast as flash heal or greater heal, but a 3 second cast time minus talent minus haste is still about 2 seconds for me. At the moment in current content, a lot can happen in two seconds. Bringing it down another half second to 1.5 is probably way too fast also, so possibly somewhere in between. My concern is that as I level to 85, even with gaining some haste from some gear, my 2 second heal might go up to 2.2 or slightly more. This is inevitable, but if I'm forced to use flash heal to compensate for the ever-growing cast time will just destroy mana. However this is fully based on my experience at 80, not 85, so it should be taken with a grain of salt. Also with the gear from 85 raid gear, if my heal drops back down to 2 seconds and below, then obviously decreasing the cast time now would just break it in the future. Another thought, what if serendipity also affected heal, but say only 5% instead of 10%, to get us the occasional heal that's mana efficient, and a bit faster than normal. This is just my outward thinking on the subject, a subject I'm sure has been talked about a TON internally as it is, but still my 2 cents.


    Ok so that was a bit snarky on my part, but the idea is real. Provide real feedback and it might actually help, and even if it doesn't, you can (hopefully) get some respect in the community by being someone who provides an intelligent thought process rather than being a crybaby. Like I said, I'm sure that this specific subject (reducing heal cast time) been discussed a bunch internally, and since the combination of level + haste greatly affects the cast time, just decreasing the cast time more would probably break it later on. This is what we call the thought process.

    I can guarantee you that any post that just cries about your class is fully ignored by blizzard, so in essence you're only hurting the process.


    Please leave your terrible... your feedback might just make priests worst thanks... Btw the main issue is the pvp state of disc/holy priests not pve (even though seem there needs few changes for pve)

    Reported for uselessness ;)
    Edited by Ninelivez on 11/18/2010 9:56 PM PST
    83 Blood Elf Priest
    2250
    [quote]
    Ooo I have an Idea, I'll give an example.

    Hey Blizzard, I see you're increasing some healing spells power by 20%, I'm looking forward to seeing how it changes the game. However, my thoughts so far have been leaning more to decreasing the cast time of heal rather than increasing the power. The amount doesn't matter when the heal lands too late anyways. Obviously we don't want heal to be as fast as flash heal or greater heal, but a 3 second cast time minus talent minus haste is still about 2 seconds for me.


    Only thing I really wanted to respond on...

    My response is.. "Take it as a sign that you need more Haste, 2 seconds isn't that long at all. Learn to time your heals instead of waiting for them to be almost dead, hard, I know."
    85 Undead Priest
    13895
    Most of the posts in this forum are baseless QQing.


    It is far from baseless.
    1 Undead Rogue
    0
    Atleast our animations are being buffed amirite?

    We may be under powered, but atleast we'll look fabulous with body and soul getting a cosmetic buff, I love the sparkles blizz. :) (( No really, I do. ))

    And our shadow orbs dancing around our ankles just wasn't gonna do. Now we have 2 orbs that are there for 1 stack, 2 stack, and 3 stack. They look pretty, like tiny galaxies, just weird to always have 2, even when we technically have 1, or 3 at given times lol.

    Teasing aside, as I like the coming sparklies for the spec I don't really wanna play, I'm still gonna pay close attention to you blizz guys salvaging our disc stuff, please and thank you. :]


    little orbiting moons of fail. it's unfortunate that they had to recycle the old shadowguard animation for the orbs. the swirling spirits from shadowmourne would have been so much better. i think it's a shame that the devs spent so much time on a graphic for a legendary that soon will be outdated and placed in some dusty corner of someone's bank and yet had to recycle something as lame as the shadowguard effect. my suggestion is that if you're going to be lazy and recycle graphics from old content, at least make it the cool ones. sadly enough the "revamped" orb animation looks actually worse, but that's another story.
    Edited by Stabinator on 11/18/2010 10:23 PM PST
    90 Draenei Shaman
    10900
    You're welcome! Can I have a /hug now?

    /hug

    The problem is the priest community has been pointing out the problems for some time now. Look at Chakra for example we have been giving alternative ways of implementing it for the past month or two.

    A lot of the suggestions to fix Chakra were not something they can just hotfix by changing a couple of numbers. You can get upset about it, but those types of major overhauls usually take months for Blizzard to release.

    Fixing Priests in PvP is beyond simple.

    -Reduce cooldown of Pain Suppression to 1 minute and make it immune to dispels.
    -Allow easy access to Body and Soul for all Priests. Remove poison component. Add snare immunity while the speed boost is active.

    DK tanks back in Sarth-3D demonstrated the problem with mitigation cooldowns being available much more frequently on one spec. With PW:B and PS, Disc would have a whole lot of prevent X% damage on fairly short cooldowns.

    60% movement on Disc PW:S is also way too good. It might be balanced in 3v3 due to Weakened Soul, but every bit of content with 10+ players (raids, rated BGs, TB) would just have to use Disc priests. Even timed events for 5-mans would be trivialized by BS on Disc's PW:S cooldown.
    Edited by Totemtoter on 11/18/2010 10:57 PM PST
    85 Worgen Priest
    6650
    Would be cool if they lowered smite's cast time by .5, and let us cast it while moving the way scorch is for mages in the discipline tree. Would make archangel more viable for pvp situations and help our offensive niche.
    Edited by Raincheck on 11/18/2010 11:04 PM PST
    85 Gnome Priest
    4150
    Would be cool if they lowered smite's cast time by .5, and let us cast it while moving the way scorch is for mages in the discipline tree. Would make archangel more viable for pvp situations and help our offensive niche.

    ^ thats not a bad idea
    85 Worgen Priest
    6650
    @Totemtoter
    At 85, holy priests get the reduced cooldown your talking about and still have body and soul. Though i do agree about the pain suppression being way too strong on pve if it was 1 min.
    Edited by Raincheck on 11/18/2010 11:15 PM PST
    77 Blood Elf Priest
    1620
    Would be cool if they lowered smite's cast time by .5, and let us cast it while moving the way scorch is for mages in the discipline tree. Would make archangel more viable for pvp situations and help our offensive niche.


    Hmm that is a very nice idea actually.
    90 Undead Priest
    4355
    Would be cool if they lowered smite's cast time by .5, and let us cast it while moving the way scorch is for mages in the discipline tree. Would make archangel more viable for pvp situations and help our offensive niche.


    Me likey. Heck, even if they had to tweak the damage down somewhat (and hopefully the mana cost too) if they felt the overall dps was too high, it'd still be a nice change. There's all these talents working off smite (atonement, train of thought, evangelism/archangel) and currently little way to use them in PvP. At the very least, dropping the cast time would be nice.
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