The Sad state of Priests come Cataclysm.

There is cause for some hope.

All during TBC, Shadow priests were the doormats of the damage dealing world. At high PvE content levels they were desired only as a support class because their dps was poor. In PvP they were absolutely hopeless: they had no melee escape, they had no effective CC, they were in cloth armor, and their burst dps was poor. To say that Shadow priests during TBC were pathetic is to accurately state their situation (more for PvP than for PvE where everyone wanted mana batteries).

But ... the developers listened to the community and in WotLK they actually ended up giving to Shadow priests almost all the things they were asking for. They got melee escapes. They were given better mitigation tools, and they were blessed (if you could call it that) with bone chilling amounts of dps.

I think it is more than fair to say that Shadow priests in 3.3 were doing really, really well.

Holy priests are in a situation similar to that of Shadow priests. In WotLK we scaled poorly and became a less desirable PvE healing spec at high content levels. In PvP, Holy priests could be very effective raid healers (which gave them something to do in group PvP), but survivability was so poor that there was no place for them in Arena.

Discipline priests were better in PvP during WotLK, but for PvE at the end were valuable mainly as raid shield spammers.

I'm sure that the devs are aware of the issues that players of the priest class raise. It remains to be seen whether they have the interest and will to take steps to position healing priest as an attractive, competitive class in Cataclysm.


So what you're saying is that if we just wait until the expansion AFTER Cataclysm, everything will be okay again?
85 Undead Priest
6340

So what you're saying is that if we just wait until the expansion AFTER Cataclysm, everything will be okay again?


Yeah... that would be dumb. With the overwhelming evidence that something needs to be changed (either with priests or the other healers), there is no reason why they can't do something now. Why wait til March to do something when they've broke it NOW. Why would they want to repeat s5/6? Aren't you supposed to learn from your mistakes...not repeat them?
80 Draenei Priest
9575
The question is, whether we (along with Shamans, I understand) are too weak at that level, or if paladins and druids are too powerful.


Paladins and Druids have kind of always been OP. Or, as you put it, too powerful.
85 Undead Priest
6340
I just realized that in the bg video AJ vs Blizz... go to the end score to see what players blizzard was using. guess what... wasn't a single priest on blizzards team.

go figure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HDbSLYDLy4
85 Goblin Priest
0
I hope someone with better regen comes up with a mass dispell, cause it doesn't look like any priests will be around in cata to do it.
85 Undead Priest
6340
I hope someone with better regen comes up with a mass dispell, cause it doesn't look like any priests will be around in cata to do it.


warriors :)
80 Blood Elf Priest
6560
warrior mage paladin is the new rmp

warrior has mass dispel, and stuns better than a rogue, rogue in plate

mage has lust and offensive dispel, damage over the top

paladin is the new disc priest in plate, offensive healer
1 Human Priest
0
There is cause for some hope.

All during TBC, Shadow priests were the doormats of the damage dealing world. At high PvE content levels they were desired only as a support class because their dps was poor. In PvP they were absolutely hopeless: they had no melee escape, they had no effective CC, they were in cloth armor, and their burst dps was poor. To say that Shadow priests during TBC were pathetic is to accurately state their situation (more for PvP than for PvE where everyone wanted mana batteries).

But ... the developers listened to the community and in WotLK they actually ended up giving to Shadow priests almost all the things they were asking for. They got melee escapes. They were given better mitigation tools, and they were blessed (if you could call it that) with bone chilling amounts of dps.



Which is why I went to the healy side in WotLK. I enjoyed Shadow as it was throughout BC, because I like being in a support role. I am a Disc priest now because I enjoy the playstyle.

How all the changes will affect my enjoyment of the class, I cannot say yet, as I am not 85. But I am giving it a chance before putting time into my other healer toons. Priest is my favorite class and it will be a sad day if I feel I have to play something else.
85 Undead Priest
4180
These are probably upfront and probably late to change. I'm sure blizzard devs have thought of/dont like these, but here's what needs to happen, in my eyes in order to make disc the unique, damage and quick healing class it should be:
-Return Penance CD to 8 seconds. Absolutely necessary. Our most effective heal, with low healing output to start needs to be more useful. With so many kicks, a full penance isn't likely to happen when trained vs anyone 2400+.
-Reduce cast time of smite, or buff disc's flash heal amount. Or lower mana cost.
-PWS undispellable, OR revert the dispel system and make more covers (offensive/defensive)
-I know blizzard removed it, but return the stun reduction, if not the silence length as well. CS/KS is longer WITH the DR (meaning they dont want rogues CS/KS always) than it was before 4.0. This is completely counter intuitive. OR DR stuns after 2. Don't want stun zerg? DR them faster.
-Shadow fiend or archangel need to give more mana return per effective cost. Make Archangel work off flash heal too, make it less smites, or make fiend return more mana per % damage. OR fix archangel; its silly to think smiting is 100% necessary. Regening mana should be based around healing, not damaging since there are times that priests (especially) should not DPS and should heal (ie m/p or r/p waiting for CDs/CCs- same with rmp).

My 2 cents.

TLDR: Weak heal output OR weak mana efficiency, not both. DPSing for mana return isn't well thought out. Most trainable healer gets trained more, with less effective instants and more interrupts = easier kill.
Edited by Racial on 11/16/2010 2:47 PM PST
90 Undead Priest
13575
There is cause for some hope.




So what you're saying is that if we just wait until the expansion AFTER Cataclysm, everything will be okay again?


No.

That is not what I said.

I had been hopeful that the devs would implement some fixes in beta. To a degree they have ... but I am circumspect about how meaningful they will be.

I am now expecting healing priest to be a fail class when Cataclysm begins. It seems as though Paladin is poised to be the dominant healing class not only because they have exciting new mechanics, an expanded array of tools and greatly enhanced versatility ... but also because they are very strong in PvP which is important to people who PvE and also like PvP.

Right now I cannot recommend Holy priest to anyone looking to roll a new healer for Cataclysm. I'm not yet sure that I can recommend Disc or not.
90 Human Priest
12010
Relax, all. We just need number tweaking. I don't think they're really going to go live with these current numbers. I think they're just debating how best to adjust us.
80 Undead Priest
2185
so in other words, shadow is fine. yay.
86 Human Paladin
7530
These are probably upfront and probably late to change. I'm sure blizzard devs have thought of/dont like these, but here's what needs to happen, in my eyes in order to make disc the unique, damage and quick healing class it should be:
-Return Penance CD to 8 seconds. Absolutely necessary. Our most effective heal, with low healing output to start needs to be more useful. With so many kicks, a full penance isn't likely to happen when trained vs anyone 2400+.
-Reduce cast time of smite, or buff disc's flash heal amount. Or lower mana cost.
-PWS undispellable, OR revert the dispel system and make more covers (offensive/defensive)
-I know blizzard removed it, but return the stun reduction, if not the silence length as well. CS/KS is longer WITH the DR (meaning they dont want rogues CS/KS always) than it was before 4.0. This is completely counter intuitive. OR DR stuns after 2. Don't want stun zerg? DR them faster.
-Shadow fiend or archangel need to give more mana return per effective cost. Make Archangel work off flash heal too, make it less smites, or make fiend return more mana per % damage. OR fix archangel; its silly to think smiting is 100% necessary. Regening mana should be based around healing, not damaging since there are times that priests (especially) should not DPS and should heal (ie m/p or r/p waiting for CDs/CCs- same with rmp).

My 2 cents.

TLDR: Weak heal output OR weak mana efficiency, not both. DPSing for mana return isn't well thought out. Most trainable healer gets trained more, with less effective instants and more interrupts = easier kill.


Why not a 6 sec CD on penance? Holy shock has a 6 sec CD, it hits for about 65% of Penance, but after 3 you get a free, instant Word of Glory. TBH 6 secs seems fair in both PvE and PvP. With 100k health, a 15k penance every 6 secs is far from game breaking

Evangelism should give damage reduction for PvP. I would much rather try and DPS to keep up evangelism for a 15% damage reduction than pop wings for a 15% heal bonus. It would make every match become zerg the priest before evangelism is up, but I guess we could burn PI. All I know is that disc needs help. Its like tissue paper right now. A great option would be 3% damage reduction with each stack of evangelism, or pop wings for 3% heal bonus, and 3% haste on Mana Burn and Smite for each stack.

Grace needs to be fixed. Being balanced around a 24% heal bonus that gets put up on 1 target at a time is ridiculous. It makes us vulnerable to switches in PvP (as soon as they see Penance, switch to the non-penanced target), and makes us a pure single target healer in PvE. Grace should buff the priest, not the target. Give me an 18% self buff to my direct heals over a 24% buff to a single target any day. Grace was a cool idea when it was implemented, but really? 24%?

TBH, even if they implemented these changes and we had to balance smiting for damage reduction and direct heals to keep up a grace buff, I still think disc would be behind Paladins for PvP.

Edit: A ramp up time on 24% of the strength of our heals just plain doesn't work in PvP. Also, why not make grace an 18% self buff that works on ALL heals (or at least all cast heals) and remove the Aegis from PoH (unless we crit of course).
Edited by Terrel on 11/16/2010 10:09 PM PST
85 Orc Death Knight
2350
4.0.3 spell changes

http://www.wowhead.com/blog=173983

So Holy Paladins got every single heal spell buffed while Priests get 30 sec CD on Chakra and a hard nerf to SW:D.

I really don't get what Blizzard is trying to do but it was probably wise of them to not post the actual changes with this patch.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3175
A 20% base healing buff on Greater Heal, Flash Heal, and Heal addresses zero of the current (numerous) issues with priest pvp, specifically disc pvp. Please take the time to thoroughly review player feedback regarding play style concerns and viability, as the solutions implemented thus far rectify none of the aforementioned. Dispellable pain suppression and power word shields are extremely detrimental to the class, this is, if one completely ignores the laughable absorption amount on pw:s. The damage scaling at 85 (observed from beta footage) is equal to, perhaps sub-par, to that of other healing classes. All whilst retaining the distinction of having the worst mana efficiency of all healing classes. It would be tragic to see such a (previously) dynamic and skill-oriented class be nerfed out of competitive pvp (see: 3v3 bracket arena), and ultimately pvp in general.
85 Blood Elf Priest
4220
Blizzard has said a few times that they have things in store for priests in the beta... And I have to say that you're running out of time, Blizzard. Cataclysm is in three weeks and right now my paladin is almost 80.

Adding a flat 20% healing buff a few of the priest healing spells does help, but it barely begins to scratch the surface. We still have laughable survivability and pretty much pathetic mana regen.

Don't get me wrong, we all appreciate the effort, but personally, you're going to need to do a lot more to get me to keep playing my priest if this is how it's going to be.
Edited by Terrorsocks on 11/17/2010 4:04 AM PST
77 Blood Elf Priest
1620
Time to retire my priests and reroll pally. Things aren't looking good from a pvp PoV for disc.
85 Human Priest
3790
A lot of really valid concerns are listed over these 9 pages, but as Blue stated, they're listening and will be keeping a careful eye on how the Priest class appears at lvl85 PvE content and beyond. Just a matter of being patient. But just as everyone else, at 85...if I'm experiencing issues with mana management and severely weak heals, then I will be a very unhappy camper.
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