"Here's hoping for buffs to our AOE"

90 Orc Warlock
10095
Why?

AOE is neither fun nor interesting, and will probably not even be viable in Cata due to the need for CC and focus firing.
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90 Troll Mage
14080
Sometimes it's fun to just lay into a pack of enemies and watch a whole bunch of numbers fly around. It's one thing to require CC and / or focus-firing for some packs, but if a class's AoE is bad enough to the point where they're better off staying single-target, then that's a problem too.
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10 Draenei Paladin
20
From the videos that I've seen of the Cataclysm instances, there will be a mix of mob packs that will require focus fire, cc and aoe.
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85 Gnome Rogue
12090
The only thing less fun and interesting than mindless AE spam is trying to maintain something resembling a single target rotation on one mob while the whole pack is being AE'd down by those capable of doing so.

Ask any Rogue what it was like in Naxx before the FoK cooldown was removed.

While AE is no longer the primary mode of content in Cataclysm, there are still boss fights with AE adds, AE packs on trash, and yes, when you outgear the more single target trash, you can end up AE'ing that down as well.
Edited by Feist on 11/8/2010 4:53 PM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
10095
From the videos that I've seen of the Cataclysm instances, there will be a mix of mob packs that will require focus fire, cc and aoe.


That's probably the case, but I wouldn't shed a tear if rain of fire, hellfire, and SoC were removed from the game. AoE packs are AoE-able because they do so little damage that they couldn't possibly be a threat to the group. Beating something that couldn't possibly have hurt you isn't very satisfying.

Though I do understand the "OMG screen full of numbers!" feeling, that has IMO been done to death in the current expansion and ceases to thrill the way it did in the first week or so of WotLK.
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60 Undead Warrior
0
You're in the 1% of people that think this way. I'm sorry to be the one to inform you of this.

To everyone else AoEing a lot of things is fun and enjoyable.
Edited by Granseal on 11/8/2010 5:27 PM PST
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85 Human Death Knight
8110
AoE only being used on packs of mobs that can't hurt you is pretty far from the truth. All of the major bosses in Wrath involved significant AoE in some form or another.
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90 Tauren Shaman
12590
The only thing less fun and interesting than mindless AE spam is trying to maintain something resembling a single target rotation on one mob while the whole pack is being AE'd down by those capable of doing so.

Ask any Rogue what it was like in Naxx before the FoK cooldown was removed.

While AE is no longer the primary mode of content in Cataclysm, there are still boss fights with AE adds, AE packs on trash, and yes, when you outgear the more single target trash, you can end up AE'ing that down as well.

That's where Enhancement Shaman are at.

On the trash packs that require AOE dps, we'll be the retarded kid still hitting one at a time, and every now and then we'll let our totem explode for mediocre damage.
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85 Goblin Warlock
6130
speak for yourself, i love my AoE
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85 Undead Death Knight
6110
Fun and interesting are largely subjective terms, especially when considering a game environment like WoW.

I'd argue that most people probably don't find the typical dungeon fun or interesting after the 10th+ (or less) clear. It's no longer a new experience, it's no longer strange or unknown. It's evolved into another grind, which most people (I'd guess) like to get through as quickly and painlessly as possible. Enter AoE. AoEing makes trivial, typical, uninteresting, grindy content quicker, and likely in many cases, more enjoyable to get through. As well, it makes this type of content much more manageable for PuGs.

This is why I don't understand Blizzard's push toward coordinated CC management in Cata dungeons. Want to do that for raids? Fine. But dungeons, so long as they retain their grindy nature, ought not to be hindered so. People generally want to blow through their daily dungeons and get them over with without any great measure of coordination. Plus, seeing floods of damage fly text and lots of DPS in the meters is enjoyable to some.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
14370
That's where Enhancement Shaman are at.

On the trash packs that require AOE dps, we'll be the retarded kid still hitting one at a time, and every now and then we'll let our totem explode for mediocre damage.

Yeah, our AoE is just about functionally non-existent at this point. I'm just glad our single target DPS isn't being left in the dust.
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85 Human Warlock
7485
Fire Mages and maybe Frost Mages are the only specs with some thought put into their AOE options. AOEing is fine, in theory. But for a lot of specs it's just chain channeling/casting one spell which is the type of gameplay that Blizzard went to great pains to remove from single-target encounters.
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10 Draenei Paladin
20
People generally want to blow through their daily dungeons and get them over with without any great measure of coordination.

Thus it's pretty understandable why Blizzard wouldn't want to encourage/reward such mindless gameplay.
Fire Mages and maybe Frost Mages are the only specs with some thought put into their AOE options. AOEing is fine, in theory. But for a lot of specs it's just chain channeling/casting one spell which is the type of gameplay that Blizzard went to great pains to remove from single-target encounters.

Exactly. AoE for 90% of the classes consists almost solely of mashing 1 button repeatedly.
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90 Tauren Druid
14035
I actually don't see what's so fun about crowd-control, for dungeons or raids. At least the typical crowd-control, where you cast some spell every 40 seconds to keep an enemy out of action indefinitely. Interrupts, stuns, and other short-duration CC (like cyclone) can be fun because they are more interactive - you use them at specific times when they are needed, and not otherwise. Reactively CC'ing a temporary target, like a mind control, can be fun too for the same reason. But putting an enemy on focus and casting a spell every 40 seconds? Not interesting, just a chore.
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85 Undead Death Knight
6110

Thus it's pretty understandable why Blizzard wouldn't want to encourage/reward such mindless gameplay.


So instead they take an otherwise tedious, uninteresting activity and draw it out as much as possible, making it even more tedious and uninteresting?

That's not understandable at all. Grinding by its very nature is "mindless gameplay"; so what's the better option for players? Being able to grind quickly? Or having the grind compounded into an ever more painstaking process?

What about tanks, and healers?

How is it fun for a tank to sit there and tank one or two trash mobs at a time, as opposed to tanking a whole group of them? Threat sure isn't an issue when you're only dealing with a mob or two. And it certainly doesn't make the tank feel like their really tanking--these aren't raid bosses, after all.

As for healers, I could see them falling asleep half the time. There's not much pressure on the tank, or the group, when only one or two trash mobs are active at a time. The tank's not going to be taking boss-like damage. So essentially they're just sitting back for a large portion of the instance pressing a heal every now and again, assuming DPS isn't facepulling everything in the dungeon.

This whole concept of CCs and small pulls in entry-level dungeons is just absurd.

Why should we be forced to conform to a select demographic's idea of fun with regard to low-tier dungeons because Blizzard can't manage to fathom a way to make AoE more interesting?
Edited by Sinseer on 11/8/2010 11:00 PM PST
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79 Draenei Shaman
1040
I can't wait for about 400 of these threads a day over the next few months.
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85 Tauren Druid
3280
What about tanks, and healers?

How is it fun for a tank to sit there and tank one or two trash mobs at a time, as opposed to tanking a whole group of them? Threat sure isn't an issue when you're only dealing with a mob or two. And it certainly doesn't make the tank feel like their really tanking--these aren't raid bosses, after all.

As for healers, I could see them falling asleep half the time. There's not much pressure on the tank, or the group, when only one or two trash mobs are active at a time. The tank's not going to be taking boss-like damage. So essentially they're just sitting back for a large portion of the instance pressing a heal every now and again, assuming DPS isn't facepulling everything in the dungeon.
If it's a pull that requires CC, then this shouldn't be the case. If the mobs don't hit very hard, go ahead and AoE pull them. There's no reason not to. But if the mobs hit like a truck, then the tank will be worrying about staying alive (survival cooldowns), the healer will be worried about keeping the tank (and depending on the behavior of the mob, possibly the DPS) alive, while the DPS will be worrying about keeping the CC up while still managing to take down the current target.
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