Are Absorbs Overpowered?

90 Dwarf Shaman
13890
shamanssssssssssssssss
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
8345
mog those pants you heathen
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
13720
mog those pants you heathen


look i don't have any other pants except some sort of green dress wtf it's an alt ur lukky i mogit at all.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
8345
mog every character IDIOT
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Priest
11895
09/09/2013 11:34 PMPosted by Lifegutter
I don't think Spirit Shell can stay as is going into the next expansion.
It isn't. The build time is getting reduced by 5 seconds

Next expansion, not next (now current) patch. I'm expecting some drastic changes to it or some drastic changes to spells it interacts with (like PoH, which we already know is going to be changed to not have a party restriction).

09/10/2013 08:04 AMPosted by Tsilyi
Should probably be a proper raid CD, 3 minute cooldown and everything


i've always felt like SS is at least somewhat weaker/allows other healers to shine if strong damage comes more frequently than every minute. encounters like iron qon, ra-den and lei shen come to mind (even though disc is still strong on lei shen for other reasons)

It is. In any situation where the damage is sustained for a long period of time or occurs with a higher frequency than once per minute, SS starts to lose out. I don't know if that's really an acceptable weakness though, given that it still has the relative strength of a raid CD and a one minute cooldown.

Though really the 'weakness' of SS is that, outside of it, Disc's throughput is kinda poor.

honestly as far as disc is concerned i'd just make atonement be worse. the spec is too strong and also too easy/boring to play because of it.

Again, agreed.

Maybe I'm just sick of Disc or something, since I apparently think a lot of its core mechanics need overhauls. I should probably start a thread on Disc specifically.
Edited by Skootalloo on 9/10/2013 8:30 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
9320
(like PoH, which we already know is going to be changed to not have a party restriction).

Nooooooo.....
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Priest
11895
09/10/2013 09:44 AMPosted by Mythrose
(like PoH, which we already know is going to be changed to not have a party restriction).

Nooooooo.....

We don't know anything about it beyond that. I don't think it'll end up as a spammable smart heal though.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
9320
We don't know anything about it beyond that. I don't think it'll end up as a spammable smart heal though.

Color me old fashioned, i love how different PoH is to any other aoe heal out there, and I really think that the party restriction is fine as-is. I will be genuinely sad to see it go.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
13720
if poh gets changed i will literally never play priest again.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
11005
09/10/2013 08:03 AMPosted by Truelite
It isn't. The build time is getting reduced by 5 seconds


only a nerf in 25m, 10m you just use IF on one group and 3 casts on the other and everyone's capped


You can't SS cap a 10 man raid in 4 casts even with arch and IF. It is currently possible to cap an entire 10 man raid due to the additional build time. Yes, this a nerf to 10 man.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
6295
An absorb is stronger than a heal of the same size, with the same mana cost and casting time, because it is less susceptible to overheal. (Corollary: Disc's crits are better than everyone else's crits.)

Whether that makes any *particular* absorb OP is dependent on the numbers behind that specific spell (including what other abilities can proc from it, if any.)

The best proposal I've seen for making absorbs and heals work together better is to make absorbs absorb only up to 50% of each hit even if there are more absorbs than that currently present; that amount is deducted from the absorbs currently on the target and the rest remains to absorb (half of) the next hit.

In particular, that would make HoTs not useless while the absorb holds.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
6295
I should probably start a thread on Disc specifically.


I think we all know that a thread on absorbs is already a thread about Disc. Other specs have some absorbs, but they don't revolve around them or spam them.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
13720
Other specs have some absorbs, but they don't revolve around them or spam them.


i'm not so sure. the number one heal of basically every paladin is their mastery which is an absorb that until 5.4 procced off every heal they cast.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
11005
09/10/2013 11:23 AMPosted by Calonderiel
An absorb is stronger than a heal of the same size, with the same mana cost and casting time, because it is less susceptible to overheal. (Corollary: Disc's crits are better than everyone else's crits.)
Absorbs are temporarily granted and heals are not, making heals stronger when applied to low health targets that could die from damage subsequent to their absorb expiring. Death is rather negative. Overheal QQ is a social issue and mainly a pain point because LFR healing is so undertuned and overstaffed with healers.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Priest
11245
God forbid the only class with 2 healing specs be allowed to have a good healing spec. They should be forced into playing sub optimal dps.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
16080
09/10/2013 12:05 PMPosted by Tsilyi
Other specs have some absorbs, but they don't revolve around them or spam them.


i'm not so sure. the number one heal of basically every paladin is their mastery which is an absorb that until 5.4 procced off every heal they cast.

Still does!

But you're right, pally healing does revolve heavily around absorbs; typically 30-40% of our healing came from our mastery before 5.4 (numbers have shifted slightly with the talent changes).
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
16220
09/10/2013 08:29 AMPosted by Skootalloo
(like PoH, which we already know is going to be changed to not have a party restriction).

I'm gonna need a source on us "knowing" that PoH's group restriction is getting removed. So far all I've seen is them thinking about it.
Reply Quote
100 Human Priest
7100
Disc priests are not OP. They just look that way to people who don't understand what the recount numbers represent.

When the raid is taking a steady pounding, and you've got the boss down to 1%, and everyone still standing in the raid is on the brink of death, which one is going to prevent a wipe - the holy or the disc priest?
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
13720
When the raid is taking a steady pounding, and you've got the boss down to 1%, and everyone still standing in the raid is on the brink of death, which one is going to prevent a wipe - the holy or the disc priest?


it's funny, but in the scenario you propose either spec is capable of the job. I'd actually argue that unless divine hymn is off cd and will tick at least once before everyone dies, their chances of success are relatively equal. we also never brought any holy priests to lei shen or ra-den and often the priests were some of the last people standing on lei-shen.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
0
09/10/2013 12:05 PMPosted by Tsilyi
Other specs have some absorbs, but they don't revolve around them or spam them.


i'm not so sure. the number one heal of basically every paladin is their mastery which is an absorb that until 5.4 procced off every heal they cast.


While it's true that we provide a large number of absorbs, they're incidental (apart from the tank) in most circumstances. That is, you won't see a paladin burn mana in order to build shields up before a big hit, not at 3-4 times the mana cost of what a disc priest can do, and with it taking 2-3 times as long. If someone has shields up, because yay, we coincidentally healed the raider who got targeted by raid damage with an Eternal Flame, putting a 50k or so shield on them, awesome. But no more than 2-3 will ever have this at once (depending upon raid size).

If you took our mastery... and converted it entirely into +healing... we'd have a tiny bit less healing because of added overheal, but it certainly wouldn't be a 25-30% healing loss. Maybe 5%, as the paladin slows down casting to compensate. Paladin shielding can suppress others a bit when we spam heals on full health targets, but that can only be done when the raid overgears the boss.

Tank healing is an exception, though. Tanks generally require being topped off, and in this case our Mastery turns even heavy overheal casts into efficient Effective Health, which makes us super awesome < /flex >. I've heard it argued that the Shaman's Ancestral Vigor provides just as much buffer, both for raid and for tanks, as our Mastery does in realistic circumstances (but I never checked the validity of that assessment).

In other news... absorbs are a fun mechanic. They're like mitigation cooldowns (Hand of Sacrifice, Pain supression, Barkskin) that use a numerical value rather than a percentage. It helps diversify the overall healing situation and can help give different classes different flavors. Spirit Shell, however, has seemed like overkill. I mean, it's raid-wide shielding, and powerful at that. I'd like to say that it should be made slightly stronger with a longer cooldown, but Disc already has Barrier as a cooldown. Or conversely, made into a single target powerful shield... but Monk has that. And PW:S already does the main job.

Lots of different options available, though I do like the sound Calonderiel's mention of, well, it sounds a lot like Flameglow from Mages. Shields can protect for huge amounts overall, but only up to X% per hit. Which would allow HoT's to work alongside them (because normally they are mortal enemies. Grr! Rawr!).

...I have no Druid friends. :(
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]