Holy Pally Gearing in 5.4

90 Draenei Paladin
13330
I've been looking into the changes to holy paladins in 5.4, and I'm finding conflicting information on how exactly they'll affect us. I've seen some people say we're going to want to prioritize mastery>haste>spirit>crit, while others say it'll remain unchanged (spirit>mastery>crit>haste). Some are saying Selfless Healer is the way to go, others are saying Eternal Flame, and some say it'll depend on the fight (if it does, what criteria does it depend on? EF for AoE-heavy fights and SH for single-target damage?) What's the final verdict on the changes? I assume they're more or less set in stone now since the patch comes out in a few days.
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100 Human Paladin
18230
I don't think there is a final word yet. Personally I intend to play around with SH to see what it can do and if I'm finding it too demanding or that it's not giving me the throughput I need, I'll go back to EF and try to adjust to it not working with mastery. With SH I will also try a more haste heavy reforge. I'll also be testing out SH with Holy Avenger as I take Marathel's word for it that this will be strong. It's also possible that I'll swap between EF and SH depending on fight maybe even SS although it really does seem that of the three talents, it's the least useful.

It's really suck it and see with these changes.
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100 Human Paladin
14450
No solid math I've seen so far points us in one direction, so I'll be testing out different builds come 5.4 this week.

I'll probably start with a heavy Haste Eternal Flame build.
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90 Troll Shaman
13290
I'm interested in trying different builds myself. Like going crit and haste using glyph of illumination for regen instead of spirit. I'll probably keep EF for now though, but would like to try SH a couple times as well. EF will probably be very strong with the legendary cloak and SH sounds good for holy power and tank healing.

I don't actually theorycraft though, I just like trying different 'builds'.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
There will be a lot of haste-mastery builds or haste OR mastery specifically builds. Crit technically got a few minor boosts but it probably won't be as useful in many cases. I'm certain it will find a place somewhere though

I'll also be testing out SH with Holy Avenger as I take Marathel's word for it that this will be strong


With our new 2p, SH and HA with HS added in a stacked situation it will be very good burst healing.

Also it's ironic that SH originally allowed us to drop spirit but with the judgement mana increase that changed. YET with the holy shock mana cost reduced in half you can shed spirit with SH too if you want.

4900 mana cost HS is huge.
Edited by Marathel on 9/8/2013 9:15 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10655
Haste will most likely be best in my opinion because HR will be stronger reactively versus the pre shielding uses it has now.

Also auto-refreshing from EF won't be a thing. So there's another mastery nerf.

And now you can reduce your HS CD via haste.

It's really hard to make a case for mastery, unless you're prepping for spike damage.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15705
I'd say it would be Spirit till comfortable > Int > haste to EF breakpoint > mastery > crit > haste past breakpoint
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
you'll be tuning your stats depending on what talent you take.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
EF haste breakpoints are so far apart it kind of sucks.

But the first one should definitely be acquired by everyone if you choose the talent no matter what.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
you'll be tuning your stats depending on what talent you take.


This is true as well for the first time in a while. SH and EF will dictate it the most followed by tier bonuses, holy avenger and so forth.
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100 Human Paladin
14450
you'll be tuning your stats depending on what talent you take.


True, but the main point of curiosity is which of the three talents will be most preferable over the others, or possibly mandatory due to an unquestionable difference in throughput.

I'm personally expecting Eternal Flame to hold its current position as top dog.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13825
I'd say it would be Spirit till comfortable > Int > haste to EF breakpoint > mastery > crit > haste past breakpoint


This is what I will be running on Tuesday and will go from there.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
I'm personally expecting Eternal Flame to hold its current position as top dog.


I am thinking SH to be honest. You'll never stack it to 3 but the mana saving at 1 combined with the fast HoPo building with 4 sec shock/judgement is going to be pretty fun imo. Especially if you can stack a little crit in there after you reach your haste level. Probably can sacrifice a good amount of spirit, especially if you use GoI.

Mastery is taking a hard punch in the gut, imo it lost a lot of it's value with the EF change.
Edited by Harpoa on 9/9/2013 6:12 AM PDT
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I have yet to see hard math from anyone reliable. This is just my take on the changes so far.

General things:
- HS cd now benefits from haste, so haste at least going to beat out crit, and possibly mastery depending on your build.
- flat buffs to our holy power spells means we want more than ever to max our our HP generation, so haste looks attractive

SH build - haste is much less valuable since you'll be regularly getting holy power from judgement and your cast times are naturally going to drop quite a bit. My feeling here is that we'll go something like Spirit (to comfort) > Int > Mastery > Crit > Haste. Mastery is still strong because you'll be doing a lot of direct healing and the EF nerf does not come into play. Crit wins over haste because you're already getting an "effective" haste increase from SH itself.

EF build - doesn't change much from what we have now. Haste is stronger because of the HS change, mastery slightly weaker with the HoT nerf. Ultimately, mastery still wins with haste being a close second, though it will be more valuable to hit the breakpoints for EF.

SS build - probably my preference so far. Haste takes over for mastery since SS doesn't scale with mastery at all, and we'll want to get as much holy power as we can from HS. Spirit (to comfort) > Int > Haste > Mastery > Crit.

Raid comp will affect your build choice. Comps that run throughput heavy (druid, shaman, monk, holy priest) will probably favor SS build for the extra absorbs. With the EF nerf, we can't really make a HoT heavy build viable when running with better throughput healers. Comps that run absorb heavy (disc priests, other holy pallies), we'll likely be favoring SH.
Edited by Kurzior on 9/9/2013 8:55 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
I have yet to see hard math from anyone reliable. This is just my take on the changes so far.

General things:
- HS cd now benefits from haste, so haste at least going to beat out crit, and possibly mastery depending on your build.
- flat buffs to our holy power spells means we want more than ever to max our our HP generation, so haste looks attractive

SH build - haste is much less valuable since you'll be regularly getting holy power from judgement and your cast times are naturally going to drop quite a bit. My feeling here is that we'll go something like Spirit (to comfort) > Int > Mastery > Crit > Haste. Mastery is still strong because you'll be doing a lot of direct healing and the EF nerf does not come into play. Crit wins over haste because you're already getting an "effective" haste increase from SH itself.

EF build - doesn't change much from what we have now. Haste is stronger because of the HS change, mastery slightly weaker with the HoT nerf. Ultimately, mastery still wins with haste being a close second, though it will be more valuable to hit the breakpoints for EF.

SS build - probably my preference so far. Haste takes over for mastery since SS doesn't scale with mastery at all, and we'll want to get as much holy power as we can from HS. Spirit (to comfort) > Int > Haste > Mastery > Crit.

Raid comp will affect your build choice. Comps that run throughput heavy (druid, shaman, monk, holy priest) will probably favor SS build for the extra absorbs. With the EF nerf, we can't really make a HoT heavy build viable when running with better throughput healers. Comps that run absorb heavy (disc priests, other holy pallies), we'll likely be favoring SH.


Pretty good way to put except I honestly doubt SS will be used than more than 1-2 fights and if that which is a real pity.

The talent is incredibly smooth with the changes but it's still just so weak.
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100 Human Paladin
14450
Pretty good way to put except I honestly doubt SS will be used than more than 1-2 fights and if that which is a real pity.

The talent is incredibly smooth with the changes but it's still just so weak.


It's a shame really. As much as I love playing my Holy Paladin, I don't like being pigeonholed into the single Holy Power finisher play style that Eternal Flame creates, which is why I wanted Sacred Shield to be able to compete so badly. Its scaling issues just hold it back too much though.

Selfless Healer isn't favorable either. Juggling two 6< second cooldowns, one of which forces you to target a hostile as a healer, isn't my cup of tea.
Edited by Areos on 9/9/2013 10:02 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
15380
The EF blanketing playstyle is a symptom of another problem, one I'm not sure has been addressed.
Edited by Zandrae on 9/10/2013 8:38 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7885
I'll likely be choosing Selfless Healer. I've never been a fan of the Eternal Flame build, just doesn't mesh with my playing style. I wanted Sacred Shield to become viable so so SO badly, but I just don't think it will be as strong as SH.

Do we think Spirit (comfort level)>Int>Mastery>Crit>Haste will be the way to go with SH? I just REALLY do not want to be forced into taking EF again. Do you guys think SH will be on par with EF?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
SH will be good with HA when you need heavy burst healing.

Coup that with Guardian or AW or DF and damn you're in business.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
09/10/2013 09:11 AMPosted by Maddy
Do we think Spirit (comfort level)>Int>Mastery>Crit>Haste


Once your gear is a little better i'd go haste to 4sec cd of judge/shock>crit>mastery>spirit and use GoI. But that's just me, and the way i am going to do it.
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