Smart heals making healers dumber?

90 Gnome Monk
5565
My issue with smart heals, not the greatest when they don't focus who you wan to focus.

Most fights I just attonement heal, on occasions tanks die and say "I got no heal for X seconds".

Seems if the raid and the tanks are taking damage, it goes to whoever is lowest HP, not whoever is highest priority.


Yes...that's how smart heals work. "Smart" means they know who has the lowest HP. The part about know who to actually heal is what requires the player to make a choice and do something other than smite spam. Smart heals don't care about damage patterns or fight mechanics - that's the player's job.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10215
My issue with smart heals, not the greatest when they don't focus who you wan to focus.

Most fights I just attonement heal, on occasions tanks die and say "I got no heal for X seconds".

Seems if the raid and the tanks are taking damage, it goes to whoever is lowest HP, not whoever is highest priority.


Yes...that's how smart heals work. "Smart" means they know who has the lowest HP. The part about know who to actually heal is what requires the player to make a choice and do something other than smite spam. Smart heals don't care about damage patterns or fight mechanics - that's the player's job.


+1
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0

There is going to be no real change to how any of the spells that they changed are going to be used. This particular change isn't going to change playstyle or spell selection at all from how they are on live.


Actually, it will certainly reduce the amount of overheal on these abilities. It means when the whole raid is stacked and one person is almost dead, everyone can just keep doing their healing rain/spinning crane kick/holy radiance and that one person who is dying will get way more heals than previously. This means you can almost spot heal with smart-heal aoe heals, especially in 25-man.


It means you can't HR to extend mastery shield durations on the whole raid. That in and of itself is a fairly large nerf for pallies. It's also going to increase over healing. We didn't have a 6 target cap. Now all that healing is going into 6 guys.

It means that while in some situations where you didn't need to spam aoe's that the aoe spells you're spamming are going to be working better. It's going to be worse in situations of massive raid damage. It's also going to be worse for pallies preparing for massive raid damage.
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90 Undead Priest
0

To be fair, removing ranks did make a lot of things easier, but yeah... smart heals aren't 'short bus'ing anyone.


The only thing it made easier was keybinding.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930

To be fair, removing ranks did make a lot of things easier, but yeah... smart heals aren't 'short bus'ing anyone.


The only thing it made easier was keybinding.


Shut up and cast Greater Heal 3. Now pls.
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90 Troll Priest
12105

To be fair, removing ranks did make a lot of things easier, but yeah... smart heals aren't 'short bus'ing anyone.


The only thing it made easier was keybinding.


Considering the number of people I encounter that have keybinding troubles or keybinding questions, on a daily basis, one could argue simplifying keybinding alone is a huge impact in making WoW easier. Just a thought. :)
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90 Human Priest
17730
My issue with smart heals, not the greatest when they don't focus who you wan to focus.

Most fights I just attonement heal, on occasions tanks die and say "I got no heal for X seconds".

Seems if the raid and the tanks are taking damage, it goes to whoever is lowest HP, not whoever is highest priority.


Yes...that's how smart heals work. "Smart" means they know who has the lowest HP. The part about know who to actually heal is what requires the player to make a choice and do something other than smite spam. Smart heals don't care about damage patterns or fight mechanics - that's the player's job.


I knew HOW smart heals worked.. lol! I meant more so about how I hate smart heals and how they work. As a disc priest - smite spam is really the play style. Why? Well our heals kind of suck. Penance has a CD that feels a little too long, greater heal too slow, flash heal too expensive etc.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930



Actually, it will certainly reduce the amount of overheal on these abilities. It means when the whole raid is stacked and one person is almost dead, everyone can just keep doing their healing rain/spinning crane kick/holy radiance and that one person who is dying will get way more heals than previously. This means you can almost spot heal with smart-heal aoe heals, especially in 25-man.


It means you can't HR to extend mastery shield durations on the whole raid. That in and of itself is a fairly large nerf for pallies. It's also going to increase over healing. We didn't have a 6 target cap. Now all that healing is going into 6 guys.

It means that while in some situations where you didn't need to spam aoe's that the aoe spells you're spamming are going to be working better. It's going to be worse in situations of massive raid damage. It's also going to be worse for pallies preparing for massive raid damage.


No, it's not going to be worse in situations with massive raid damage. In a situation where there is 0% overheal, the total healing done by the spell capped at 6 targets as a smart heal will be exactly the same as the amount of healing that would be done if it didn't have the target cap and just diminishing returns. For example, with 24 people in the area of effect on live, each target gets healed for 25% of the tooltip value of the spell. With it hitting only 6 people, each target will get healed for 100% of the tooltip value - there is no difference in the amount of healing.

Where it will be a nerf is situations where the raid is at 90%+ HP and taking light ticking raid damage, and the healing amount of the 6 target version of the spell is more than the health deficit on the targets that it hits and ends up being overheal that would have been effective healing with the DR cap. It will be a buff (and potentially a significant buff) in situations where there is more random damage going out and not all targets are at the same health levels/some are at 100%. You will end up with more effective healing and less overheal in those cases.

It's also only going to matter for IH shields in terms of refreshing the shield buffs. The total amount of shields going out will be exactly the same as it is on live, just bigger shields on fewer targets. The only case where that even matters is when there is so little damage going out that the larger shields are not being burned through before they expire. In those cases, there is so little healing to be done that it really doesn't matter. I am pretty sure they never intended Holy Radiance spam on 100% HP targets to work like Spirit Shell.
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90 Human Death Knight
10455
Cata up till 4.3 was the best healing this game has sccene
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90 Draenei Shaman
5475
09/06/2013 08:07 PMPosted by Tiberria
In a situation where there is 0% overheal, the total healing done by the spell capped at 6 targets as a smart heal will be exactly the same as the amount of healing that would be done if it didn't have the target cap and just diminishing returns.


Except for Shamans, where it will actually be *more* because of Mastery. Focusing the same amount of raw healing on *only the most wounded targets* will increase the Mastery benefit you receive per tick.

The buff refreshing issue is a real one though, if Blizzard doesn't intend to do anything about it. Although I doubt it would make much difference for an absorb shield because in any situation where the raid is taking relevant amounts of damage, the shield is in no danger of fading anyway.

Smart heals don't care about damage patterns or fight mechanics - that's the player's job.


And this is why "smart" heals aren't a substitute for player skill or thought. Plus, there's still resources and cooldowns. There's no heal so smart that it can decide on its own when you should cast it.

Furthermore, the recent changes are mainly (or entirely?) targeting ground heals like Healing Rain and HW:Sanc, which have to be placed by the healer.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
The buff refreshing issue is a real one though, if Blizzard doesn't intend to do anything about it. Although I doubt it would make much difference for an absorb shield because in any situation where the raid is taking relevant amounts of damage, the shield is in no danger of fading anyway.


Dayani addressed this in another post and pointed out that there is a truly miniscule chance of this occurring anymore than it already does, whether the raid is spread out (with HR on the Melee only) or stacked up.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
09/08/2013 11:36 AMPosted by Tiriel
The buff refreshing issue is a real one though, if Blizzard doesn't intend to do anything about it. Although I doubt it would make much difference for an absorb shield because in any situation where the raid is taking relevant amounts of damage, the shield is in no danger of fading anyway.


Dayani addressed this in another post and pointed out that there is a truly miniscule chance of this occurring anymore than it already does, whether the raid is spread out (with HR on the Melee only) or stacked up.


I think that her calculations on that are very questionable. On Final Boss (Resto Shaman show this week), Vixsin is showing an analysis that shows the average Ancestral Vigor uptime on H Iron Qon on live compared to a stacked portion of a fight on the PTR dropped from 80% to 55%. That is hardly "miniscule", and falls much closer in line with what I would expect.

On top of that, it isn't just the raw uptime of the AV buff that's important; it's also how stacked the buff is. All that looking at log uptime tells you is that some level of the buff is up; a tiny 5000 HP buff is not very relevant; fully stacked AV buffs (stacking a target to a full 10% takes well over a minute of constantly being in a HR on live) are very important. If this change is causing highly stacked buffs to fall off frequently; it's a big deal. This change is a significant nerf to Ancestral Vigor and a nerf to Shaman utility; there's no getting around that.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
I think that her calculations on that are very questionable. On Final Boss (Resto Shaman show this week), Vixsin is showing an analysis that shows the average Ancestral Vigor uptime on H Iron Qon on live compared to a stacked portion of a fight on the PTR dropped from 80% to 55%. That is hardly "miniscule", and falls much closer in line with what I would expect.

On top of that, it isn't just the raw uptime of the AV buff that's important; it's also how stacked the buff is. All that looking at log uptime tells you is that some level of the buff is up; a tiny 5000 HP buff is not very relevant; fully stacked AV buffs (stacking a target to a full 10% takes well over a minute of constantly being in a HR on live) are very important. If this change is causing highly stacked buffs to fall off frequently; it's a big deal. This change is a significant nerf to Ancestral Vigor and a nerf to Shaman utility; there's no getting around that.


Ya, it's all just a nerf. All of it. They're just nerfing you again.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
I think that her calculations on that are very questionable. On Final Boss (Resto Shaman show this week), Vixsin is showing an analysis that shows the average Ancestral Vigor uptime on H Iron Qon on live compared to a stacked portion of a fight on the PTR dropped from 80% to 55%. That is hardly "miniscule", and falls much closer in line with what I would expect.

On top of that, it isn't just the raw uptime of the AV buff that's important; it's also how stacked the buff is. All that looking at log uptime tells you is that some level of the buff is up; a tiny 5000 HP buff is not very relevant; fully stacked AV buffs (stacking a target to a full 10% takes well over a minute of constantly being in a HR on live) are very important. If this change is causing highly stacked buffs to fall off frequently; it's a big deal. This change is a significant nerf to Ancestral Vigor and a nerf to Shaman utility; there's no getting around that.


Ya, it's all just a nerf. All of it. They're just nerfing you again.


Yes, the change to the Healing Rain mechanics are a significant nerf almost across the board given the interaction with AV, ELW, AG and Ascendance. They are more than made up for by the buffs to the raw healing of HST, HR, CH and HTT (in 25 mans), but the HR change itself is a significant nerf.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Yes, the change to the Healing Rain mechanics are a significant nerf almost across the board given the interaction with AV, ELW, AG and Ascendance. They are more than made up for by the buffs to the raw healing of HST, HR, CH and HTT (in 25 mans), but the HR change itself is a significant nerf.


Okay.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17255


Ya, it's all just a nerf. All of it. They're just nerfing you again.


Yes, the change to the Healing Rain mechanics are a significant nerf almost across the board given the interaction with AV, ELW, AG and Ascendance. They are more than made up for by the buffs to the raw healing of HST, HR, CH and HTT (in 25 mans), but the HR change itself is a significant nerf.


My favorite part about this is how in the past you spent time arguing that AV was not really that important.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930


Yes, the change to the Healing Rain mechanics are a significant nerf almost across the board given the interaction with AV, ELW, AG and Ascendance. They are more than made up for by the buffs to the raw healing of HST, HR, CH and HTT (in 25 mans), but the HR change itself is a significant nerf.


My favorite part about this is how in the past you spent time arguing that AV was not really that important.


It isn't that important. It's a buff that doesn't have much significance (except on tanks) about 90% of the time. I never claimed it was.

It is still a nerf to our utility, and not being able to reliably stack the buff on people inside a Healing Rain makes AV even less significant.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
It isn't that important. It's a buff that doesn't have much significance (except on tanks) about 90% of the time. I never claimed it was.

It is still a nerf to our utility, and not being able to reliably stack the buff on people inside a Healing Rain makes AV even less significant.


Yeah. Cuz you got no buffs to compensate. Poor thing.

Edited to add: As a clarification: You complained and complained that 90% of HR's healing was Overheal. Now they've changed it so that it's not, and will be much more effective, and you've been complaining that it's not overhealing. I mean, I just. *throws up hands*

http://derpicdn.net/img/view/2013/5/31/337510.gif
Edited by Tiriel on 9/8/2013 3:35 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
It isn't that important. It's a buff that doesn't have much significance (except on tanks) about 90% of the time. I never claimed it was.

It is still a nerf to our utility, and not being able to reliably stack the buff on people inside a Healing Rain makes AV even less significant.


Yeah. Cuz you got no buffs to compensate. Poor thing.


And, I never said that either. If you actually read instead of going into personal attack mode, you would see that the EXACT SAME PARAGRAPH you are throwing a hissy fit about says " They are more than made up for by the buffs to the raw healing of HST, HR, CH and HTT". It's OK though, carry on.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
And, I never said that either. If you actually read instead of going into personal attack mode, you would see that the EXACT SAME PARAGRAPH you are throwing a hissy fit about says " They are more than made up for by the buffs to the raw healing of HST, HR, CH and HTT". It's OK though, carry on.


Throwing a hissy fit would be better defined by the post after post after post that you made previously complaining that HR did so much overhealing, only to be followed by post after post after post now complaining that HR is not overhealing.
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