I completely misunderstood Flex raiding

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100 Pandaren Shaman
13925
You cannot queue for Flex without 500 ilvl AFAIK.
Source of this information please :-)
100 Human Mage
13630
I like the way it is set up. Initial confusion over having the RL need to queue for it, instead of zoning in, should resolve itself. If you got locked to bosses (can't even fight them anymore) it'd be very hard to find groups if you got a couple down the day earlier.
100 Dwarf Warrior
13470
From Ghostcrawler: "Also remember Flex is winged, so you're usually talking about 2-3 bosses to redo even in the worst case."

Yikes. I don't think I've seen an instance where Blizzard so closely approached the root of a problem, conceived a solution, but then zoomed past and off in another direction. If that blind spot holds, recapturing the community/casual success of Wrath 10-man is off the table. Kills me to write that.
90 Blood Elf Priest
12895
There has been some confusion about a couple aspects of Flexible mode raiding which we’re hoping to clarify for you here:

-If all members of a Flexible mode raid have killed specific bosses within a wing, when they queue up again the next day, they will begin where they left off.
  • Example: All 14 players in the raid on day one have defeated Immerseus, but only 12 continued on to take down the Fallen Protectors. If that same group of 14 were to re-queue for the same wing the following day, they would begin at the Protectors with Immerseus remaining defeated. If they returned with the original 12 that downed the first two bosses, they’d carry on to Norushen.

  • -While Flexible mode will never scale in difficultly below 10 players, you can still queue up and begin clearing the instance with as few as 7 players in the raid.
  • Example: You have 9 guild members and friends who are online and ready to rock Flexible mode, but the other 5 members of the raid are running a bit behind. You can still form a raid group and queue for Flexible Siege of Orgrimmar, and then head inside to begin taking down trash as you wait for the others to log in.


  • If the 12 that downed the first two bosses que up they'll be on Norushen but then they can invite the 2 from the previous raid night after que'ing in and all 14 raiders will be on Norushen.

    I think that is important to communicate too.
    Edited by Taedas on 9/13/2013 11:06 AM PDT
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    4820
    spending 12-15 hours on it over a few days for one wing is the way to go.


    You're very much exaggerating things here and it's not helping you make a convincing argument at all.

    With non-raiders and casuals (you know, the crowd that Flex is meant for) that has issues with stone feet and paying attention to anything but their bars, Flex is actually a bit more difficulty than you make it sound.

    Sure for raiders it's easy. But have you raided with non-raiders outside of LFR ? Flex is not forgiving for these people even if it is for us. One issue with had going to normal last night was Swirl. After doing Immerseus twice on Flex this week (before we knew of the workaround to queue up to where we left off) people just weren't running out of Swirl as on Flex it's a knock back with mild damage. On Normal, it one shotted our healers and cloth DPS. They stood there thinking they would take the knock back...

    We spent the night basically breaking the bad habits we had formed in Flex thinking it was tuned nearer normal than it is. Man, LFR Immerseus is gonna be cake if Flex is harder than LFR.

    That said, we're not talking about taking 12-15 hours to down a wing, but in our raid window of 2 hours, it's highly likely than with non-raiders, you're not going to go 4/4 in a wing. Even with everything on farm, you might clear 1 wing, then do 2/4 in another in those 2 hours. You will come back to a partial instance and the issue with new people kicks in unless you know the workaround.

    Please stop looking at this from a "I'm a raider, this is easy" perspective, look at this from the PoV of the crowd it's mean to address.

    so people between 490-540


    You cannot queue for Flex without 500 ilvl AFAIK.


    I admit that if the entire flex raid has not cleared any of normal tot last tier then the mechanics will take some time to learn. If the entire flex does not have any upgraded shadopan gear then they will be undergeared.

    That being said, you can extend the lockout if you have 7 people from the night before. If you have less then 6 people from the original team then you should be happy to redo the bosses for 1. practice and 2. to gear up those 4 people.

    There is no ilvl requirement to queue.
    Edited by Bobbydigital on 9/13/2013 11:30 AM PDT
    100 Pandaren Shaman
    13925
    There has been some confusion about a couple aspects of Flexible mode raiding which we’re hoping to clarify for you here:

    -If all members of a Flexible mode raid have killed specific bosses within a wing, when they queue up again the next day, they will begin where they left off.
  • Example: All 14 players in the raid on day one have defeated Immerseus, but only 12 continued on to take down the Fallen Protectors. If that same group of 14 were to re-queue for the same wing the following day, they would begin at the Protectors with Immerseus remaining defeated. If they returned with the original 12 that downed the first two bosses, they’d carry on to Norushen.

  • -While Flexible mode will never scale in difficultly below 10 players, you can still queue up and begin clearing the instance with as few as 7 players in the raid.
  • Example: You have 9 guild members and friends who are online and ready to rock Flexible mode, but the other 5 members of the raid are running a bit behind. You can still form a raid group and queue for Flexible Siege of Orgrimmar, and then head inside to begin taking down trash as you wait for the others to log in.


  • If the 12 that downed the first two bosses que up they'll be on Norushen but then they can invite the 2 from the previous raid night after que'ing in and all 14 raiders will be on Norushen.

    I think that is important to communicate too.


    The Blue post did nothing but confuse me further. Lots of conflicting information in this post.

    Question for Blue

    Can you continue raid a second night with mostly new people and retain the downed boss status? Yes or No

    Many times my same guild members bring an alt the next day. We mix it up, we are casual.
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    4820


    If the 12 that downed the first two bosses que up they'll be on Norushen but then they can invite the 2 from the previous raid night after que'ing in and all 14 raiders will be on Norushen.

    I think that is important to communicate too.


    The Blue post did nothing but confuse me further. Lots of conflicting information in this post.

    Question for Blue

    Can you continue raid a second night with mostly new people and retain the downed boss status? Yes or No

    Many times my same guild members bring an alt the next day. We mix it up, we are casual.


    No you cannot continue from where you left off with mostly new people.
    Why is this a problem though? If you have all new people why wouldn't you want more loot?
    Would you rather your alt have 4 chances at loot or 1?
    90 Dwarf Warlock
    12310
    09/13/2013 07:47 AMPosted by Shamantra
    yes, it seems like an unintended mechanical work around to retain a saved instance.
    Lol it is not unintened. It is exactly what you are supposed to do.


    Did you even read the blue post? The "work around" was found by players trying to resolve an issue that shouldn't even exist. Also, this "work around" currently has mixed results with Xrealm players.
    Edited by Darkster on 9/13/2013 11:33 AM PDT
    90 Dwarf Warlock
    12310


    The Blue post did nothing but confuse me further. Lots of conflicting information in this post.

    Question for Blue

    Can you continue raid a second night with mostly new people and retain the downed boss status? Yes or No

    Many times my same guild members bring an alt the next day. We mix it up, we are casual.


    No you cannot continue from where you left off with mostly new people.
    Why is this a problem though? If you have all new people why wouldn't you want more loot?
    Would you rather your alt have 4 chances at loot or 1?


    I do agree there. Not sure why you would want to continue a lockout with mostly new people.
    100 Pandaren Shaman
    13925


    No you cannot continue from where you left off with mostly new people.
    Why is this a problem though? If you have all new people why wouldn't you want more loot?
    Would you rather your alt have 4 chances at loot or 1?


    I do agree there. Not sure why you would want to continue a lockout with mostly new people.


    Many times my same guild members bring an alt the next day. We mix it up, we are casual.

    Basically I don't want boss down status based on new members brought to a raid, we want to continue from where we were. This is a bad design.
    Edited by Nayaga on 9/13/2013 11:45 AM PDT
    100 Human Mage
    20165


    No you cannot continue from where you left off with mostly new people.
    Why is this a problem though? If you have all new people why wouldn't you want more loot?
    Would you rather your alt have 4 chances at loot or 1?


    I do agree there. Not sure why you would want to continue a lockout with mostly new people.


    let's assume a wing with 4 bosses
    the people in the raid/guild had already cleared 3 bosses one night
    the next night, for some reason a few people want to switch to an alt - the entire raid has to start over from the beginning, if I understand this correctly.

    this just seems like a huge layer of hassle.

    Or, the raid forms without those who are new. zones in, then invites/summons the new people.

    I can see why they said this wasn't meant for pugs.
    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    4820


    I do agree there. Not sure why you would want to continue a lockout with mostly new people.


    Many times my same guild members bring an alt the next day. We mix it up, we are casual.

    Basically I don't want boss down status based on new members brought to a raid, we want to continue from where we were. This is a bad design.


    no you go in with your group and sit there. then people drop group and switch to their alts, and then get invited. Once you are inside the instance with 7 people with a shared lockout you are good to go.

    It's not elegant but it works, except for the crealm thing.
    90 Dwarf Warlock
    12310


    Many times my same guild members bring an alt the next day. We mix it up, we are casual.

    Basically I don't want boss down status based on new members brought to a raid, we want to continue from where we were. This is a bad design.


    no you go in with your group and sit there. then people drop group and switch to their alts, and then get invited. Once you are inside the instance with 7 people with a shared lockout you are good to go.

    It's not elegant but it works, except for the crealm thing.


    There you go. Use the "work around" to work towards your advantage.
    Community Manager
    Once again, this community has come together in a constructive manner to share feedback and suggestions, and we thank you for that. Let's kick this update off with the most recent change:

    After careful consideration of the feedback you've shared, and after weighing pros and cons of the Flex mode system that came with Patch 5.4, we've decided to change how raid progress is saved. At patch launch, entering Flex mode SoO was based upon who had progressed the least. For example, a raid of 11 players entered SoO and downed 3 bosses on Tuesday night. Wednesday night, all 11 come back together to continue but decide to bring along 4 new people. If the raid had queued together, they'd have had to start the raid over from the beginning because those 4 new players weren't flagged as having downed the first 3 bosses. Our original intent was to err on the side of making sure no one in the raid would miss out on a boss that they still needed to kill.

    A hotfix applied this morning, however, takes a more traditional approach to raid lockouts by basing boss progression on the group leader's status. In other words, if the raid leader faced 3 bosses on Tuesday and decides to continue where he or she left off tonight, anyone who joins the Flex raid--even those who have never set foot into SoO--will begin the instance at the same point where the raid leader finished on Tuesday. This system is more straightforward and understandable for much of the WoW raiding community, therefore Flexible raids will no longer be based upon the least progressed member.

    Thanks, but there seem to be some folks that haven't seen it work like this if cross-realm players are involved. Is this a bug / user error?

    This was addressed in this morning's hotfixes.

    09/12/2013 11:21 AMPosted by Chaoscannon
    Question, does flex reward loot like lfr does, ie random number roller, or is their actual gear to be handed out?

    09/12/2013 11:25 AMPosted by Seraphion
    Is there any reason why we need to queue in the first place?

    These two questions go hand-in-hand: Using Raid Finder-style loot ensures that adding new players to a Flexible raid will never impact any individual member’s chances of receiving loot. And using Raid Finder-style loot also means using Raid Finder-style queuing.
    93 Blood Elf Monk
    12815
    09/13/2013 12:04 PMPosted by Crithto
    A hotfix applied this morning, however, takes a more traditional approach to raid lockouts by basing boss progression on the group leader's status. In other words, if the raid leader faced 3 bosses on Tuesday and decides to continue where he or she left off tonight, anyone who joins the Flex raid--even those who have never set foot into SoO--will begin the instance at the same point where the raid leader finished on Tuesday. This system is more straightforward and understandable for much of the WoW raiding community, therefore Flexible raids will no longer be based upon the least progressed member.

    Yay! This makes so much more sense. Now casual groups who have people missing the first night can come back and make progress and not be potentially stopped at the same point due to time constraints.
    90 Dwarf Warlock
    12310
    Thank you thank you thank you!

    Other then this one lockout issue I think the new patch is great:)
    100 Pandaren Monk
    7895
    This is awesome! Going to make things so much easier.
    90 Troll Mage
    11345
    Once again, this community has come together in a constructive manner to share feedback and suggestions, and we thank you for that. Let's kick this update off with the most recent change:

    After careful consideration of the feedback you've shared, and after weighing pros and cons of the Flex mode system that came with Patch 5.4, we've decided to change how raid progress is saved. At patch launch, entering Flex mode SoO was based upon who had progressed the least. For example, a raid of 11 players entered SoO and downed 3 bosses on Tuesday night. Wednesday night, all 11 come back together to continue but decide to bring along 4 new people. If the raid had queued together, they'd have had to start the raid over from the beginning because those 4 new players weren't flagged as having downed the first 3 bosses. Our original intent was to err on the side of making sure no one in the raid would miss out on a boss that they still needed to kill.

    A hotfix applied this morning, however, takes a more traditional approach to raid lockouts by basing boss progression on the group leader's status. In other words, if the raid leader faced 3 bosses on Tuesday and decides to continue where he or she left off tonight, anyone who joins the Flex raid--even those who have never set foot into SoO--will begin the instance at the same point where the raid leader finished on Tuesday. This system is more straightforward and understandable for much of the WoW raiding community, therefore Flexible raids will no longer be based upon the least progressed member.


    Now who's a good boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooy!?!?!?

    *hands scooby snack*
    100 Tauren Druid
    16575
    Thank you, this is awesome! *gives the nice doggie a big beef bone*
    Edited by Amadahy on 9/13/2013 12:18 PM PDT
    100 Goblin Priest
    8865
    Yay! Great job Blizz! So much more intuitive.
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