Thok the Bloodthirsty

100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
At the very least, the interrupt needs to be taken off because it absolutely screws certain healing comps in 10m. We're forced into Druid + Mistweaver because our Pally can't get a single damn cast off near the end.


AM
Bop
Bubble

Honestly, that's all I can say that they can do, I think when he hits the point where you can't cast between cries is where you should be transitioning.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16080
We're forced into Druid + Mistweaver because our Pally can't get a single damn cast off near the end.
No luck with Selfless Healer?
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90 Tauren Paladin
16365
Fixates do go on the melee, however...

After the first fixate, raid would spread out and go to poison cage. Melee would cross over and dps Thok near Frost cage.

Melee still had to be careful, but as long as they were close enough to Thok, they would not get targeted. We stayed on Thok until 6-7 stacks of Frenzy and crossed over to the Jailer.
The biggest thing to keep in mind, even though melee can't get targeted, is that he will still devour players even if he doesn't turn your direction, so you still need to move away from Thok during the fixate.

It seems like you could control Fixate to an extent, but there were certain conditions.
I think it was Tyranny's PTR video? but one guild controlled fixates during testing, not sure if that was intended or still works entirely.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
09/16/2013 10:31 AMPosted by Azane
At the very least, the interrupt needs to be taken off because it absolutely screws certain healing comps in 10m. We're forced into Druid + Mistweaver because our Pally can't get a single damn cast off near the end.
AM
Bop
Bubble

Honestly, that's all I can say that they can do, I think when he hits the point where you can't cast between cries is where you should be transitioning.
I realize there's ways to get around it, but the easiest way by far is just to get healers that literally never have to cast and still get off really big heals. The Druid doesn't need a BoP to do 150k HPS.

And you can't pretend like the multiple fixate in a row mechanic is not dumb. Like, really? It's not an issue now on normal, sure, but if it doesn't get fixed because of the normal QQ we have another Vizier on our hands. Literally no one wants that for heroic.
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Our second group killed Thok shortly into fire (doing green, blue, red), three healing and intentionally dragging out the fixate phases.


we kept him in the fixate phase till his blood frenzy got to 15 then released the prisoner and had 2 melee on the jailer while ranged dps'd the boss
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
why do melee get targeted at all? it's not like we have the benefit of doing damage from 40 yards away. or can dps effectively on the move (from range), etc...

literally no guild stacks melee, so why are they elgible targets? or at the very least, they shouldnt be instagibbed for being close, given thats the only way they can dps effectively.
Edited by Sanctifìed on 9/16/2013 4:44 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
why do melee get targeted at all? it's not like we have the benefit of doing damage from 40 yards away. or can dps effectively on the move (from range), etc...

literally no guild stacks melee, so why are they elgible targets? or at the very least, they shouldnt be instagibbed for being close, given thats the only way they can dps effectively.


You're whining about being melee on a fight that requies the massive effort of running away like a little girl and being able to ignore one of the more annoying mechanics designed purely to interrupt casters? Lol.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
why do melee get targeted at all? it's not like we have the benefit of doing damage from 40 yards away. or can dps effectively on the move (from range), etc...

literally no guild stacks melee, so why are they elgible targets? or at the very least, they shouldnt be instagibbed for being close, given thats the only way they can dps effectively.


You're whining about being melee on a fight that requies the massive effort of running away like a little girl and being able to ignore one of the more annoying mechanics designed purely to interrupt casters? Lol.


one of the only benefits of being melee is being able to do good dps on the move...but in this case, you cant get too close or you might get one shot. so what do melee do when out of range? almost nothing. casters get to do damage, on the other hand.

melee just twiddle their thumbs while casters get to cast spells. is that fair? the problem is you have to get away, but while doing so, damage is basically zero. if melee werent a target/option, they might *gasp* be an asset over ranged on a fight, which happens once in a blue moon these days.

a fixate target being ranged makes sense, they have a 40 yard gap where they can do damage or kite. melee cant do that and maintain decent damage. so they are a liability. it's like horridon pink dinos all over again, and will probably be even worse on heroic.

basically, there is no good reason melee should be targeted, when they cant do good damage at a safe range. ranged can, melee cant. just for once, lets have a fight where it's a good thing to have melee dps. h dark shaman is already terrible for melee, give people SOME reason to use melee in heroic progression. even if it gets them off the bench for one boss.
Edited by Sanctifìed on 9/16/2013 5:25 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
10730
But the problem is, Thok hotfixes went like this:

Tuesday: Thok stands there and cries incessantly. Groups kill him in P1 and just P1. Lolwtf.
Wednesday: Thok's energy regeneration is fixed to current levels, but Shock Collar is bugged and doesn't do damage. That's literally 20% of the damage during the encounter cut off, P2 has zero damage intake as a result.
Thursday+: lolwtf damage

Like, what? The energy regeneration definitely needs to be cut back because Thok currently is significantly harder than Spoils, harder than Siegecrafter, arguably harder than Paragons.

At the very least, the interrupt needs to be taken off because it absolutely screws certain healing comps in 10m. We're forced into Druid + Mistweaver because our Pally can't get a single damn cast off near the end.


It is extremely silly to put it in a term that won't be censored. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't blizzard's mantra been 'bring the player, not the class' for a long time now? And haven't they stated that if a fight is undertuned that they would rather leave it be then to increase the difficulty in the middle of progression? The thursday hotfix massively contradicted both of those statements.

Healing as a disc priest is absolutely miserable in this fight. Bringing a priest, shaman, or even Paladin to this fight as a healer gimps your raid, end of story. Attempting to 2 heal this with a shaman felt like someone cut off our arms. I love hard fights. I love healing overwhelmingly high damage. Just let me !@#$ing hardcast.

EDIT: Oops, I swore after all. !@#$ it.
Edited by Derpchao on 9/16/2013 6:33 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
10635
How we killed it:

3 heal.

Poison -> Frost -> Fire

Have 1 mobile healer running with Fixated raider to heal and dispel as necessary. Have 1 healer focus on the group of Ranged DPS who are nuking the boss. Have 1 healer with the tanks and melee who are taking care of the jailer.

Lust at start, push Phase 1 as long as possible. You should be aiming for 17+ stacks of Roar. This is doable with Devotion Aura, BOP, etc. Make sure you have a raid cooldown rotation prepared for each Roar phase.

Poison phase - Most heal-intensive phase. Specifically because your healers are trying to dispel while pumping out throughput and push the phase as long as possible. The additional dispel from 3 healing is very nice for this.

Frost phase - Frost debuff is absolutely negligible. Got a single ice tomb maybe once every 3-4 attempts.

Fire phase - Just stack up. The fire damage is trivial compared to the constant Roar damage you should be used to healing through anyway. When you get a patch of fire under the group, shift a little bit.

He'll do another Fixate phase at the end, if you let him. Don't try to push too far and get yourselves killed. You can finish him off pretty easily.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
one of the only benefits of being melee is being able to do good dps on the move...but in this case, you cant get too close or you might get one shot. so what do melee do when out of range? almost nothing. casters get to do damage, on the other hand.


Melee can absolutely get in range. Moreover, if a specific melee is too scared to melee Thok, they can be assigned to be the one whittling down the Jailer.

If you're twiddling thumbs you are bad. Melee are great for every part of Thok.
Edited by Slashlove on 9/16/2013 9:25 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
11130
We 2 healed it and went to 11-13 stacks for the first round with Rsham/MW as healers. We also used 3 melee which is atrocious for this fight.
Edited by Sneakyhobos on 9/17/2013 12:58 AM PDT
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91 Troll Shaman
17265
So much hate for shamans and two healing.
I thought it was pretty easy (even without a pally to cheese the mechanics).
Conductivity owns this fight. Just before his aoe silence gets retarded pop ascendance and drop an UW HR then time up some Chain heals (start casting as soon as he roars). As the aoe hits ludicrous speed, use personal damage mitigation cds, drop Spirit Link and Healing Tide and just chill through the next 6 seconds. You should be sitting on like 260k hps.
The only aspect of this fight that was challenging from a healer perspective was dispelling the poison (magic debuff), as people are often out of range chasing thok down the hall. Any dps that have a magic dispel (shamans) or can throw one quick heal on themselves to eliminate the ticking debuff that applies at 50% health should be taking a global to help out.
Edited by Taozin on 9/17/2013 5:59 AM PDT
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90 Undead Warrior
14910
Zyenn, you are exactly right, the hit box is way to small. As a melee dps you have to be very close to him to dps and in the fixate phase thats risking a death and given the dps requirements a raid wipe if you are doing 10 man.

Slashlove, ever think that your passive 15% run speed helps you out a little bit as you dps?

After the boss has his run speed buffed once or twice there is no way a warrior can run with him and dps you only hope is to position so that he will run past you and dps for a very small window before you have to prepare to run / leap away on fixate change.

I found it was better to just nuke down the jailer and get positioned for the next burn phase. Only about 10 attempts and we got him to 15% doing poison, ice , fire. Using lust at start and pushing with cd up to 13-15 before fixate began.
Edited by Balgoth on 9/17/2013 6:21 AM PDT
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100 Human Warrior
6960
@Balgoth

Finally, someone is agreeing with me! I'm thinking that it might be a class problem as well.

A lot of players don't understand how a warrior works.
-Our charge reaches the absolute edge of the target's hit box.
-We aren't as mobile as people think; if leap is CD and no targets to charge, we're only left with intervening to banner.. yup.
-if we don't factor in execute phase, our autoattack makes up for 25-35% of our total damage.
-can't hit boss= no damage.

Unfortunately this boss puts any melee classes that don't have a stacking dot/ranged ability in very bad light.
Classes with dots and some ranged ability; ferals, rogues, unholy dk and enhancements to some extent do fairly well on this fight.

I understand that in P1 casters have about 50%+ uptime due to the interrupts.
But they in P2, that's 100% uptime.

For melees that are slow; warriors and rets(maybe?) it's more like 100% up time in P1 and 10% uptime in P2 if you're going to tunnel the boss until you can't catch up.

The strat where someone here mentioned on how it is possible for a melee to tunnel Thok in P2 until about 5 stacks then focus on the jailer- I tried it, but it was literally too much to do and too risky for a little more damage.

I find that it is more than just a QoL issue to hit the boss while moving, move away before fixate ends, pray that it's not you, go back and hit the boss while it moves faster, and rinse repeat. Once it gets to the 3rd fixate it's normally too risky. You might be able to out run it once, but if RNG hates you and you get it for a second time, you're done.

When melee asked for equality between ranged and themselves, I didn't think this was what they meant.

@slashlove

Perhaps I'm just really bad at the game, but I'd have to disagree with you for this being a great fight for melee. Might be good for ferals with their rips, definitely horrible for warriors from other fellow warriors that I've talked to.

If melee truly is great for every part of thok, people would've stacked more melee, not reducing their numbers and stacking hunters.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5235
Couple tips (we killed him the day after the "hotfix" which made him stupidly hard).

First off, burn all your cooldowns in the first phase. Also, Devotion Aura is HUGE at the end of those phases (doesn't negate any physical damage but makes healers immune to interupts). We had three so we just waited until the pulses were close together and chained all 3 with channeled raid CD's (DH/Tranqs)...then, when those wore out, SLT and HTT. Should be aiming for close to 70% when he goes into first fixate phase with 3 healers.

Also, there is some type of range mechanic on his fixates. The people closer to him don't get picked, but the ones around 20+ yards away are always targetted...sooooo, if you are being fixated, when he is about to switch, get decently close to him to avoid getting it chained 2-3 times on you.

No BS, this is a hard fight. HUGE dps and healing check. Overtuned a bit, IMO. Took my group 25 ish attempts with ~545 item level. We did Green (to get the posion debuff phase over with), then blue (easiest), then red (we didn't stack, just spread and burned for a solid 30 seconds and stacked on someone to transition when it got bad, slowly shifting from left to right to accomodate fire on the ground). Last phase we just burned and prayed? lol

Edit: For the stack phases, we split into 2 groups of 4 (without tanks) and stacked on the right and left edges of sanctuary/healing rain so both groups could stack in middle when we wanted to push the phase...that let us dictate when WE wanted the phase to push rather than a series of bad cooldown management or interrupts where you push way too early.
Edited by Churchh on 9/17/2013 8:42 AM PDT
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100 Human Warrior
6960
^Not to sure about that mechanic.

I was chased twice in a row, and I was right in front of him when that happened. (5th fixate, you can only run so fast.)

Our healer was fixated 4x in a row. Luckily it was for the first 4 fixates and he was monk. Rolling around and stuff saved his life.

I still think that this boss is a little buggy.

Thok actually fixated on another person while the prisoners were released.
e.g.
>Thok fixated on A
>Prisoners released at start of fixate on A
>Fixate on A ended
>Fixate on B starts
>Fixate on B ended
>Fixates on prisoners
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90 Troll Priest
11780
We struggled with 2 healers as well, but it wasn't exactly the healing requirement as it was the bonehead DPS mistakes. Like not being near a healer when you get the poison debuff, etc. Once we cleaned that up, he fell over in fire phase.
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90 Goblin Rogue
16650
Thok actually fixated on another person while the prisoners were released.
e.g.
>Thok fixated on A
>Prisoners released at start of fixate on A
>Fixate on A ended
>Fixate on B starts
>Fixate on B ended
>Fixates on prisoners

We saw this too, and it's worse on some of the cages than others, it's because there's a small amount of uninterruptible RP from the prisoners before Thok will devour them. Particularly on the poison cage you need to account for a small amount of extra time, particularly if Thok is near the end of his current fixate
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Slashlove, ever think that your passive 15% run speed helps you out a little bit as you dps?

After the boss has his run speed buffed once or twice there is no way a warrior can run with him and dps you only hope is to position so that he will run past you and dps for a very small window before you have to prepare to run / leap away on fixate change.


155% passive, not just 10%.

The position so that he will run past you is EXACTLY what you should be doing. This isn't a "small window" though, this'll make the difference between your apparent 50% uptime and actually break up to normal DPS levels. 10% uptime like that guy is talking about literally needs not trying.

And as mentioned, if you're having trouble reaching him at high stacks, DPS Thok during low stacks when you CAN reach him and THEN switch onto the Jailer.

The strat where someone here mentioned on how it is possible for a melee to tunnel Thok in P2 until about 5 stacks then focus on the jailer- I tried it, but it was literally too much to do and too risky for a little more damage.


What's "too much to do" about it?

And yeah, Thok does his RP. Also, he'll be gaining energy while he moves from his spot to Devour the person, so if he's starting all the way across the room he'll get his Devour off in perfect time to immediately Defean the raid.
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