Shaohao Rep Gain

(Locked)

100 Troll Shaman
15050
How is Shahao rep optional when the Pouch of Timeless Coins requires being at Honored with the faction? I don't have anything to upgrade, there's nothing I want to buy, and I'm stuck near the hard cap (2955). So you tell me - what else can I do with my valor? Because otherwise I can't hit the weekly cap and get the Valor buff.
90 Goblin Mage
14410
While, I was fine with the heavy grind to finish the quest, a few in my guild are starting to burn themselves out with attempting to finish the questline for the rep grind. It is because the rep grind is tied to a quest that drives everyone to finish it up as quickly as possible. People are trying to finish the questline in a few days. Unlike the Dark Prince rep grind, this grind is not normally achievable through normal gameplay.

Another problem has popped up as well. When we put together a five-man group to farm rep, another guild is using trade chat to call out our guild by name, putting together a 15 man raid team, use the Censer of Eternal Agony and then harassing our 5 man team. They used standard PVP tactics and attacked our healer first. Unfortunately, our healer was a Battletag friend from a PVE server, who does not PvP, so sadly, I do't think she will run Timeless Isle with our guild again.

While personally, I enjoy being on a PVP server, the Censer of Eternal Agony and guilds putting together large raid teams and targetting a guild in the same faction is starting to be a problem. Unfortunately, I think this gameplay mechanic is going to rip a few guild apart.
100 Worgen Mage
18375
While personally, I enjoy being on a PVP server, the Censer of Eternal Agony and guilds putting together large raid teams and targetting a guild in the same faction is starting to be a problem. Unfortunately, I think this gameplay mechanic is going to rip a few guild apart.


Exactly what I'm noticing here. General chat is just full of trolls now saying go here for a rare or fight horde, and it's just the bloody coin raid lol
100 Worgen Death Knight
5885
So...camping elites so no one can get them before anyone else...

Sounds like a fun time with Everquest all over again.
100 Tauren Priest
20320
Can we reconsider account wide reps if we're going to introduce rep grinds like this back into the game? My hunter was my main in wrath she was the one who got all the reps and I just don't care enough about alts to gear her to the point that she could solo these and or any group would take her to farm the rep needed.

I'll do it on my priest but the thought of coming back to do this on my hunter in the next expansion just fills me with dread.
90 Human Priest
13755
09/12/2013 01:38 PMPosted by Zarenna
Does anyone even remember when WoW wasn't one giant participation award. When you had to earn your gear and you spent months trying to get anything achieved? When I point these things out people will cry about they have a life or it shouldn't be fair only elitists get the best loot. The truth is that business model of making you work your butt off for gear was the best business model. There's a reason why participation was so high, why people treated this game like crack.


Mindlessly killing enemies over and over for long periods of time isn't a test of skill. How are you improving your abilities if there is none to little challenge? It's more of a test of endurance and patience. Just like the old Grand Marshall or High Warlord titles in PvP back in Vanilla. You didn't become an overnight sensation with the sudden expertise that it takes to become a +2200 player. No, you spent 3-6 months at a computer queuing for battlegrounds.

Trivial combat encounters aren't anymore difficult or challenging at hour 1 than it is at hour 18. Test of endurance, sure, but a challenge of gameplay or ability, no. How hard can a rep grind be be when people go away from their keyboard to get food or use the bathroom? If you have the leisure to step away or join a group at a moments notice, the hardest test of skill is simply showing up.

At some point, cutting-edge guilds making 500 attempts a week is no longer a test of skill. It's a test of endurance. Until Naxxramas most bosses were pure tank and spank standing in one spot from pull to loot. The thing what people call difficulty is the tuning of the bosses which required collecting every single possible buff for your class, not the fight mechanics. Raiding used to be test of endurance, now it's test of skill.

You know why those things got changed? Because they were not fun for vast majority of people. I know there are masochists out there who actually enjoy doing things that are painful for most people but those are in the, very vocal, minority.

Does the guy who spends 8 hours in a gym somehow get a better workout then the guy who shows up with a diet and workout plan who can manage it in under 2 hours?

Time does not equal effort. Otherwise the guy working a 9-5 office job would be getting paid the same as a Doctor because they both put in 8 hours of work that day.
100 Night Elf Rogue
12715
Oh jolly. More dailies. I just canceled both of my subscriptions. Screw this game.
100 Worgen Mage
7920
How is Shahao rep optional when the Pouch of Timeless Coins requires being at Honored with the faction? I don't have anything to upgrade, there's nothing I want to buy, and I'm stuck near the hard cap (2955). So you tell me - what else can I do with my valor? Because otherwise I can't hit the weekly cap and get the Valor buff.


Buy blood spirits from the Isle of Thunder factions and sell them on the AH. It's not much, but its better than letting the valor just go to complete waste.

I think the coin pouch should be behind Friendly, if they feel it -has- to be gated behind the rep.

The daily is a nice touch though, it's not much but considering the mobs only give 5-15, 250 is a godsend ;p
Edited by Tredain on 9/12/2013 4:26 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Death Knight
5100
To quote another player: "PHENOMENAL COSMIC POPULATION!!! iiiitty biiiitty questing space."

I haven't had the chance to check out 5.4 until this evening, so I've been browsing the forums. I've already made up my mind to tinker with my alts if the Isle is too packed and just come back to it later :). As for the rep grind, well, I feel better knowing it's actually a grind. Yeah grinds get to me after a while, but it still gives me something to look forward to. If I have everything almost handed to me then I'm left bored trying to find something else to do.
Community Manager
IMO the problem is that only Yaungols give rep. Make it so that every island creatures gives some rep and it will be fine.

On the other hand: What the blue said is BS. For the love of god blizzard, stop doing that. You make something extremely hard/long/painful for its release and sometime later you make it super easy: 5.0 Reps, first steps of legendary Quest line, getting loot from past patches. and the excuse is " Oh oh, we've been monitoring the community and we are not satisfied with this so we gonna make it easier." or "We feel that served its purpose" Or something like that. Give your players some respect. I understand some of the reasons but I can't help but feeling I just lost a bunch of time doing that stuff. If you gonna change this rep DO IT NOW because theres already people working their asses for this and it will be frustrating if you make it easier in one or two months. Or don't change it and make it clear that you will not to. Thank you.

The first change happened within 48 hours of the patch going live. If we think there's a problem we'll take steps to address it.

But I'm not comfortable comparing this to 5.0 reps or the legendary questline. First, the changes made to them were mostly for very different reasons. The way so many reward systems tied together in 5.0 reps made it more difficult to address by applying a hotfix or two. It required patches. And the primary changes to the legendary questline have been calculated and gradual, to allow players an opportunity to catch up without having to repeatedly run content for which it's increasingly difficult to find groups, while also not trivializing the overall effort needed to complete the chain now.

You seem to be implying we should take a "nerf first, think about the implications later" approach. That's not good for the game or the community. If we make any mistakes in the process, it becomes a lot harder to take something away from players, and we want to avoid repeatedly swinging the pendulum to opposite extremes in that regard.

Ultimately, a lot of this feedback ends up being a little shorthand, not that it's being discounted entirely. But there's a sense of, “There’s a thing I want and I don’t have it yet; fix it so I have it now,” going around. Shaohao rep definitely has a grind attached to it, but as other players will happily point out, there are a lot of other repeatable, random, and other mechanisms and systems at play that make the Isle as a whole very rewarding. If we gated all the good stuff behind the rep, that’d be a more serious concern, but it isn’t. The rep is just one progression among many parallel ones.
Edited by Zarhym on 9/13/2013 4:21 PM PDT
100 Tauren Paladin
14880
09/12/2013 02:40 PMPosted by Typhanei
Shaohao is Timbermaw. Entirely unnecessary for character advancement. Optional.

For the last time, the rep being optional and completely cosmetic is no excuse for it being insanely tedious to grind out.
MVP - World of Warcraft
100 Gnome Warrior
13285
09/12/2013 04:26 PMPosted by Zarhym
But there a sense of, “There’s a thing I want and I don’t have it yet; fix it so I have it now,” going around.


I think it's beyond that, myself. I'm quite nearly at Friendly and it's really a chore. There's a point where things are grindy to the point where they're just not going to be fun.

Personally I think it's over that line. I recognize I don't speak for the masses, all I have is my own opinion on the topic.

There's nothing at the end of the grind I have to have. I'm not an avid mount collector. I'll get it done and get the mount eventually, but it's just not going to be fun getting there.
100 Human Mage
14745
Just for perspective, our intent with the implementation of this rep was to focus on the more difficult creatures on the island, as well as the ones that thematically are the most threatening to the island's residents.


Pretty sure we the players are thematically the most threatening things to the islands residents.

Find a lost isle that only appears once very 1000 years with new and strange creatures, and what do we do? Kill all the creatures, all the time.
100 Pandaren Monk
12650
Woah 250 rep that help a lot! Really! Bloody piddly amount of rep.
90 Human Hunter
830
IMO the problem is that only Yaungols give rep. Make it so that every island creatures gives some rep and it will be fine.

On the other hand: What the blue said is BS. For the love of god blizzard, stop doing that. You make something extremely hard/long/painful for its release and sometime later you make it super easy: 5.0 Reps, first steps of legendary Quest line, getting loot from past patches. and the excuse is " Oh oh, we've been monitoring the community and we are not satisfied with this so we gonna make it easier." or "We feel that served its purpose" Or something like that. Give your players some respect. I understand some of the reasons but I can't help but feeling I just lost a bunch of time doing that stuff. If you gonna change this rep DO IT NOW because theres already people working their asses for this and it will be frustrating if you make it easier in one or two months. Or don't change it and make it clear that you will not to. Thank you.

The first change happened within 48 hours of the patch going live. If we think there's a problem we'll take steps to address it.

But I'm not comfortable comparing this to 5.0 reps or the legendary questline. First, the changes made to them were mostly for very different reasons. The way so many reward systems tied together in 5.0 reps made it more difficult to address by applying a hotfix or two. It required patches. And the primary changes to the legendary questline have been calculated and gradual, to allow players an opportunity to catch up without having to repeatedly run content for which it's increasingly difficult to find groups, while also not trivializing the overall effort needed to complete the chain now.

You seem to be implying we should take a "nerf first, think about the implications later" approach. That's not good for the game or the community. If we make any mistakes in the process, it becomes a lot harder to take something away from players, and we want to avoid repeatedly swinging the pendulum to opposite extremes in that regard.

Ultimately, a lot of this feedback ends up being a little shorthand, not that it's being discounted entirely. But there a sense of, “There’s a thing I want and I don’t have it yet; fix it so I have it now,” going around. Shaohao rep definitely has a grind attached to it, but as other players will happily point out, there are a lot of other repeatable, random, and other mechanisms and systems at play that make the Isle as a whole very rewarding. If we gated all the good stuff behind the rep, that’d be a more serious concern, but it isn’t. The rep is just one progression among many parallel ones.


Ultimately, I think Blizzard was too lazy and unimaginative to make the Timeless Isle worth our time and effort.
90 Orc Hunter
13355
but it's just not going to be fun getting there.
100 Human Mage
14745
Ultimately, I think Blizzard was too lazy and unimaginative to make the Timeless Isle worth our time and effort.


Most people are enjoying the isle. Most people don't seem to be bothered by the final rep grind because it's something we can do at our leisure.

It's fine if you feel the Isle is not worth your time and effort, but don't speak for any others in this case.
100 Blood Elf Priest
18010
09/12/2013 03:15 PMPosted by Daru
It's definitely different from some of the more recent reputations added to the game, and harkens a bit more back to reps like Timbermaw or Hydraxian -- though we'd argue is still less painful.
I had an easier time grinding Timbermaw rep than this ridiculous rep. Hell, I have 60+ exalted reps and this is by far one of the worse reps to grind.

09/12/2013 03:52 PMPosted by Gwaeniiha
The "you don't have to do it" isn't an argument as to why it's set up this way.


And as I said, I did Shatt united, I did pirate rep, I am grinding my goblin rep back up, I even did Shen'dralar rep. NONE of these were as bad as this grind is.


I suspect rose-colored-glasses syndrome here. Those rep grinds WERE long and slow and very very grindy and wearying beyond belief (yes, physically tiring and headachy). But we didn't have much else to do back then and there wasn't much competition for killing pirates and pick-pocketing junkboxes and running Dire Maul more times than I want to even remember.

First couple of days of the patch, you know there's going to be an immigrant-boatload of players in the new zone. I saw people on my realm who quit years ago. Of course resources are going to be strained and scarce. But remember, in a few weeks/months there'll be nobody around and your alt will be all, "I can't kill nuthin without a group waaah".

So enjoy the flash mob of excited players swarming the place for now. It never lasts. Then you'll be solo grinding what you can for hours on end, wishing for easy peasy dailies. (I loved the MoP dailies and though I never like grinding mobs, I'll do this cuz must have new toys!)

This may require alcohol like vanilla/BC grinds did.
90 Human Hunter
830
09/12/2013 04:37 PMPosted by Fairadey
Ultimately, I think Blizzard was too lazy and unimaginative to make the Timeless Isle worth our time and effort.


Most people are enjoying the isle. Most people don't seem to be bothered by the final rep grind because it's something we can do at our leisure.

It's fine if you feel the Isle is not worth your time and effort, but don't speak for any others in this case.


Guess you missed the "I think" in my comment. Whereas you are trying to speak for "most people".
Edited by Lorralei on 9/12/2013 4:42 PM PDT
90 Human Rogue
3560
It is a grind for sure but I have found using OQ and and joining a less populated server in a group of 5 with a tank and heals makes it go much faster. I grinded 3000 rep in less then an hour last night.


I am sure they love you on that server coming in at a time they enjoy having 'less population'.
It is one of the very few benefits to being on a low population server and you guys are ruining it for them.
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