Shaohao Rep Gain

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90 Goblin Priest
16190
I love grinding when there are actually mobs.
100 Tauren Paladin
14880
Ultimately, a lot of this feedback ends up being a little shorthand, not that it's being discounted entirely. But there a sense of, “There’s a thing I want and I don’t have it yet; fix it so I have it now,” going around. Shaohao rep definitely has a grind attached to it, but as other players will happily point out, there are a lot of other repeatable, random, and other mechanisms and systems at play that make the Isle as a whole very rewarding. If we gated all the good stuff behind the rep, that’d be a more serious concern, but it isn’t. The rep is just one progression among many parallel ones.

I feel no sense of "There's a thing I want and I don't have it yet; fix it so I have it now.". The sense I get is, "This is a rep grind that's WORSE than Vanilla rep grinds, which many people thought was impossible. Didn't you learn 7 years ago that this is a terrible thing!?"

Many of those repeatable, random mechanisms also have worn out after the first day. On my server, at least. There's no reason to hunt for the legendary relics or shrines because you get the buff then die 5 minutes later and lose it. I've found so many chests that I've replaced my entire main gear set and can work on offset gear, so that doesn't matter. I've found all of the special chests, such as the Sunken Treasure. I did Rolo's Riddle. I don't have the legendary cloak so I can't do Ordos, and my server is PVP with 75% Alliance so we can't fight the Celestials. Literally all I do on the timeless isle now is hunt rares that drop pets and the Onyx Cloud Serpent mount, and this is 48 hours after its release.

I was quite happy when I discovered a new reputation to acquire, and then was immediately shocked to discover that some of the hardest non-dungeon/raid mobs in the game only give 5-20 rep per kill. Keep in mind 2-5 rep is usually reserved for AoE packs.

The fact that it's all optional is not a reason to put in such a monumental rep grind. The rep is not "useless" because, at Honored, you can exchange Valor Points for Timeless Coins. Hydraxian Waterlords, which you've compared it to in the past, had a monumental grind and were not optional; you needed their rep to extinguish the seals to fight the Majordomo. Even then, the rep was acceptable because you got it by progressing through Molten Core. This meant there was a value to the grind. There is no value to the mobs you have to grind for Emperor Shaohao.
Edited by Blockhêad on 9/12/2013 4:44 PM PDT
100 Worgen Mage
14515
I'm fine with the grindy nature of the Shaohao rep. The bonus from the quest will help and there is nothing being sold by him that is a massive upgrade, it's all vanity stuff or in the case of the trinket a quality of life improvement which speeds up the return to the isle.
100 Tauren Paladin
14880
I'm fine with the grindy nature of the Shaohao rep. The bonus from the quest will help and there is nothing being sold by him that is a massive upgrade, it's all vanity stuff or in the case of the trinket a quality of life improvement which speeds up the return to the isle.


It is not all vanity stuff; the ability to purchase Timeless Coins with Valor is locked away at Honored.
90 Orc Death Knight
10255
3 Days in, 6414/12000 Honored.... 75k Coins...

About to start the 3rd day of Grinding.. Loosing my sanity...slowly..
100 Night Elf Hunter
19850
So, is the hotfix for the rep via daily quest actually live? I'm waiting to hand it in.

I don't mind insane grinds terribly much but I feel like Blizzard is purposefully putting one in each content patch and it's starting to wear on me. First we had Sky Crystals, then we had the dino bone mount, now we have this rep.

I love the island. I love bloody coins. But I feel like endlessly farming yaungol takes away from my freedom to check out the rest of the island. It seems weird to make a more "open" playstyle area and put a 2004 era MMO design grind on one half of the island. It's as if there are two different dev teams with conflicting design goals making the game.
Community Manager
09/12/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Typhanei
I can't help but view Thunder Island, Battlefield Barrens, and Timeless Isle as being three parts in a continuing experiment.

This is true to a large extent. We're trying out types of endgame content other than repeatable quests. Timeless Isle is the most direct "sandbox, evergreen" environment we've created so far. The Isle content as a whole isn't nearly as strict or linear as dailies. There are many things you can take at your own pace. Needless to say, we're very interested in the feedback -- not just what we're hearing now, but what we'll be hearing two months from now.
90 Human Hunter
830
09/12/2013 04:54 PMPosted by Zarhym
I can't help but view Thunder Island, Battlefield Barrens, and Timeless Isle as being three parts in a continuing experiment.

This is true to a large extent. We're trying out types of endgame content other than repeatable quests. Timeless Isle is the most direct "sandbox, evergreen" environment we've created so far. The Isle content as a whole isn't nearly as strict or linear as dailies. There are many things you can take at your own pace. Needless to say, we're very interested in the feedback -- not just what we're hearing now, but what we'll be hearing two months from now.


The Timeless Isle is too minuscule to be called sandbox content.
90 Pandaren Monk
12290
Overall, I would say the Isle is wonderful. Lots of stuff to do, always something going on and a peak at my armory profile will show I'm enjoying the gear. However, I would like to throw my two cents in that the grind for Shaohao isn't fun due to the very narrow (even if slightly expanded) avenue you must take to get there; it's relatively difficult for the reward you get and will require what I would say is an inordinately high amount of time investment compared to recent rep grinds.

Why not make the first kill of a celestial each week give some rep (750-500)? Maybe some rep for completing the achievement to kill ALL the celestials (1000-2000)? These wouldn't be spammable and could give decent chunks. Plus, they're related to the Emperor in some way. Heck, maybe even make the pet daily (250) and the Celestial Tournament (1000-2000) worth some rep.
91 Orc Hunter
15380
Haven't we spent the entire expansion telling the devs "Rep is a PITA to grind"? So we were given that rep in a dungeon once a day thing (doesn't apply), given the garden option (doesn't apply)... I don't follow the logic here.

I'm an avid mount collector and my interest in doing this is minimal. Get a group, or try to fight 500 other people for spawns. Yeah, not happening. I had enough of that crap farming dinosaur bones (and I still don't have the 10k for that mount).
90 Gnome Warrior
8355
I guess all I have to compare it to is other recently released world content.

Isle of Thunder is great, still do it. Yes it's a little 'grindy' but at least the grindiness is slightly different every day, and each day has a set amount of quests you go and do, you finish that day's quests in maybe 30 minutes or so, and then you can go do a raid or level an alt or go spend time with your wife.

I've been to Timeless Isle a lot over the last 3 days, the first day was extremely fun, the second day (once all chests were gone and the rares started getting farmed hard) less so. It's now day 3, and i feel almost zero compulsion or desire to go back to the Island. There's nothing compelling, interesting or stimulating left to do - all that's left that is of genuine interest is once-per-week boss kills, a mindless yaungol grind, and occasionally lucking into a decent rare that lets you throw loot to your alts and/or fill up Kujuru's pockets.

I just don't see this new Island holding the bulk of the player base's attention for more than a few weeks, let alone months. Contrast that with Isle of Thunder which I've been contentedly going to day after day for months and months now.
100 Draenei Paladin
19715
This is true to a large extent. We're trying out types of endgame content other than repeatable quests. Timeless Isle is the most direct "sandbox, evergreen" environment we've created so far. The Isle content as a whole isn't nearly as strict or linear as dailies. There are many things you can take at your own pace. Needless to say, we're very interested in the feedback -- not just what we're hearing now, but what we'll be hearing two months from now.


So what happens if in 2 months no one can get anything done due to the blood coin farmers? It's already a hassle if you're ally as there's flagged horde all over intentionally trying to get you flagged, either by standing on/under your kills, or on a target you're fighting.

Ally side no one cares much about PvP to try and stop it, so it's a constant game of being overly careful, which sapps even MORE enjoyment out of this area.
100 Worgen Mage
7920


Ultimately, a lot of this feedback ends up being a little shorthand, not that it's being discounted entirely. But there a sense of, “There’s a thing I want and I don’t have it yet; fix it so I have it now,” going around. Shaohao rep definitely has a grind attached to it, but as other players will happily point out, there are a lot of other repeatable, random, and other mechanisms and systems at play that make the Isle as a whole very rewarding. If we gated all the good stuff behind the rep, that’d be a more serious concern, but it isn’t. The rep is just one progression among many parallel ones.


My only real issue is just the pouch of coins. I hesitate to call it a 'worthwhile' valor sink, but it's really the only one available outside of upgrades and unless loot just falls out of the sky you'll generally be paying 0-500 valor a week depending if you manage to get loot or not (strictly from a Flex/LFR point of view).

Valor basically has no 'goal' this patch. It has now gone the way of justice being largely mediocre, if only slightly more useful. This is just a complete 180 from the whole expansion where it was the 'go to' currency, everything drops it, you have the capacity to cap it every week and you had a lot of gear you could spend it on, plus upgrades, and.... now that doesn't mean anything really, the amount you accrue is now largely pointless because you have finite ways of utilizing it. Upgrades require gear, gear only comes from raids and/or RNG with Burdens and/or waiting 3+ weeks for the new profession gear to be made. Gear gains are going to be mostly 1 piece a week until things start rolling.

So, having the only other valor sink rep gated behind something that'll take easily months without sitting down and just straight grinding for hours and hours in a group (cuz otherwise you're not going to get many tags or kills from the elites) is just a bit disappointing.

I don't mind that the mount, the vanity items, etc are rep gated, that's fine, but it's agitating about the valor dump, it's not even a -good- valor dump for what it buys, 7,000 a week isn't going to flood anyone with burdens or anything else. It shouldn't be more than friendly, so it's still gated, but you can get to it in a reasonable amount of time for those that don't/can't group and have to rely on what slim pickings are left over and the daily.
Edited by Tredain on 9/12/2013 5:08 PM PDT
100 Worgen Mage
19550
The Timeless Isle would definitely be a completely different beast without Bloody Coins/same faction PVP. We'll see if same faction PVP ends up being the dominant core activity a couple of months down the line. All in all I think it's still a success even if that's the case, just knocking it down to 4 stars down from 5
100 Human Monk
18225
09/12/2013 04:26 PMPosted by Zarhym
But there a sense of, “There’s a thing I want and I don’t have it yet; fix it so I have it now,” going around.


Oh please. The community is just letting you know that this rep grind is boring. That's the takeaway, here. Don't just dismiss all of this as people being impatient. Instead of making excuses and calling us greedy, own up to your mistake and figure out how to make it fun. That's the designers' job in the first place, after all; if any part of this game is boring, that's not our fault. You guys did a great job with the rest of the patch's content, but this rep grind needs work. That's what all this is about. Again, don't make excuses or pass around the blame, just take it to heart.
90 Blood Elf Rogue
19005
We're all just guinea pigs as Blizzard sees how much they get away with before people quit. 100 mobs giving 600 rep is just really pushing it.
94 Night Elf Druid
5390
is anyone having a problem logging in right now?
90 Night Elf Druid
10770
Yep...definitely not able to log in -_-
100 Night Elf Druid
20245
Don't change the grind. People should have to work for these items. The new content has only been up for TWO DAYS. I like that my items reflect some amount of work that I had to put into getting them.
91 Orc Hunter
15380
But there a sense of, “There’s a thing I want and I don’t have it yet; fix it so I have it now,” going around.


Oh please. The community is just letting you know that this rep grind is boring. That's the takeaway, here. Don't just dismiss all of this as people being impatient. Instead of making excuses and calling us greedy, own up to your mistake and figure out how to make it fun. That's the designers' job in the first place, after all; if any part of this game is boring, that's not our fault. You guys did a great job with the rest of the patch's content, but this rep grind needs work. That's what all this is about. Again, don't make excuses or pass around the blame, just take it to heart.
Thank you. I was very displeased to see I couldn't use the dungeon rep option, even moreso when I realised the quests I was doing were doing nothing for my rep. Care-o-Meter about this faction til next expac when no one's here doing it is empty.

lol@above poster; Yeah, mindlessly AoEing mobs is super hard. Feels like all kinds of work to me.
Edited by Cozzene on 9/12/2013 5:35 PM PDT
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