Proving Ground's NPC party is horrid...

My npc's didn't seem to stand in the fire that much but on wave four with the double aqua mobs she'd be in melee range aoe-ing (which was good) and tank or rogue would get it at the same time and I'd dispel it off the melee npc and lifegrip the mage out but she'd run right back in if I did it early. Too late and it would explode on both me and her. On the attempt where I got my title I actually used mass dispel if two in melee range had the debuff, despite its huge mana cost.
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90 Orc Shaman
11935
They're still pretty stupid. I'm on gold now. I'm gonna try using Hex.
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12 Blood Elf Priest
0
I was getting pretty frustrated with the Gold mode when I was going OOM in round 7 no matter what I did. Between the NPC fix and having a UI that now actually displays Chomp, I found it much easier to complete. Strange, that. ;)

And yes, they're still pretty mediocre and the tank is still a freaking mana sponge (especially if he gets Chomp), but it is miles better than it was. I had no idea it was bugged and was just like WTF? How do they expect anyone to be able to heal through this?
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90 Draenei Shaman
10630
Just got Gold last night on the third try. Haven't tried Endless yet.

I wouldn't say that the DPS were acting stupidly, but their actual damage output was abysmally low. Is it intended that the waves overlap each other because the DPS team isn't up to par? Is it my job to pick up the slack for the DPS as well as heal them?
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90 Night Elf Priest
13190
The problems that I experience on my shaman are that chomp gets applied to the same target twice or 2 ppl in the group, the aqua bomb hits 2 ppl at the same time and when you dispel it gets reapplied within seconds. I've been trying to get to wave 30 for the past couple days now in the healing challenge and wave 26 is it for me. The NPC's just take so much damage that it's hard to heal through wit NO mana. I don't mind throwing in some occasional dps, mostly using my totems and elementals, but honestly if I wanted to dps I would do the dps challenge. When you go into a dungeon or raid as a healer you are not expected to dps, only to heal.

I tried different talents and glyphs and gear and re-gemmed some. Nothing really seems to make a difference. The tank takes a lot of damage most of the time. Maybe Blizz could swap the warrior tank for a DK or pally who can heal himself every now and then, that would be nice. Or maybe the NPC's could use some of the Healthstones....

Could any shaman post a video on how they did this challenge in endless?
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90 Human Paladin
16215
I wouldn't say that the DPS were acting stupidly, but their actual damage output was abysmally low. Is it intended that the waves overlap each other because the DPS team isn't up to par? Is it my job to pick up the slack for the DPS as well as heal them?


Their output is still low but now you should only get overlaps of one mob at low health instead of more and there are more waves with actual breaks between them, not including the every 10 waves drink break which is kinda a close call with the conquerer every single time.

09/26/2013 05:40 PMPosted by Shér
The problems that I experience on my shaman are that chomp gets applied to the same target twice or 2 ppl in the group, the aqua bomb hits 2 ppl at the same time and when you dispel it gets reapplied within seconds.


That seems to be intended, so just choose who to dispel (usually anyone in melee range). To deal with the dot the best way is to keep everyone topped in prep for it, if possible, because then it would only take a small heal to top them up and remove it.
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90 Human Warlock
6125
heh, if a 552 paladin can't do it. I'm glad I didn't even try
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16515
heh, if a 552 paladin can't do it. I'm glad I didn't even try


With scaled gear, you lose so much raw power, it's like going in blindfolded, with a broken arm.

It's forced us into tricking the system with high gem slot items, so that we can overbudget the scaled gear.

Pally power doesn't scale linearly. If the NPC's and mobs were "ilvl appropriate," I would stomp this without having to worry. But as it is, I can't keep up because my heals are too small, too slow, and anything I do to make them better turns them mana inefficient.

I'm pretty consistent at getting to wave 6/7, but I'm completely out of mana at that point, and praying that one of my 4 mana regen (spirit tinket, mana trinket, racial, and glyphed plea) abilities will come up. This is at 9k spirit at 463 ilvl.

I like to think I'm a fair healer, but I just can't keep up. Too much incoming damage on too many different NPCs too quickly. If I get a chomp, I'm gonna burn 80k mana trying to get the NPC cleared. A 5-10% heal just can't keep up with NPC damage in the 20% range.

I know I'm a better healer than I am a tank (by far), but I've managed to get silver on both, and tank spec just feels easier. Yah, there's cooldown differences, but I don't have to manage resources the same (I don't even think about mana as a tank, which means I can SPAM, SPAM, SPAM).

Personally, I think all 3 challenges should have roughly equal difficulty. Right now, I don't think they do (coming in as a mediocre tank, and a "good" healer). I had to "game" the system significantly as a healer, whereas as a tank, I was able to go in "clean." I'm not saying the tank challenge is easy. It's not. But there's aspects of the healer challenge that need significant tweaking.

- Tank only has to protect 1 mob, vs Healer protecting 4. I'm sorry, but in a real group, I sometimes have to decide who is going to die. That's why combat rezzes exist. Maybe if they gave you a combat rez (wave rez) in the healer challenge, it would even or... if they just gave you a tank that you had to keep up. Make it the exact reverse of the tank challenge.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
9175
As someone that completed it, under the ilvl with no amazing trinkets or legendary cloak (i know it's scaled down) AND as a holy priest, it was definitely challenging. I also did it on my undergeared druid as well who was only at 443. I actually found it easier to do on my priest than my druid which was surprising after reading how druids and shaman do so well in there.

I was having issues last week but after the hotfix I was able to do it. It seems as long as I used any of my 3 min cds no later than the beginning of wave 3, they were all up when I really needed them again by wave 5 or 6. And I always hymned/tranq when the 2nd chomp went out and the mobs were usually dead before they could chomp again. I didn't try to keep people (the dps) topped off because I knew that I was going to hymn/tranq early which took any chomps off. I used my pysfiend on any groups that were more than 3 or whenever the tank started taking truck loads of damage. Eventhough the cc would get broken, those few 1-2 second helped alot. Plus the fiend keeps doing it anyway. On my druid I used typhoon. which got things off my tank plus stunned (i think for a really short time). Anything to give a few seconds to relive damage on the tank so some heals could get his hp up. I had to voidshift with him in wave 6 or 7 (don't remember which one) though.

I didn't have amazing trinkets since I just came back to wow after a 10 month break so I wound up using H Tear of Blood back from Cata and some spirit quest reward trinket I got from Townlong which gave 1852 spirit when it proc'd. Once I got past wave 7 it's a cake walk. On my druid, I even had some downtime between a few waves because talented for Dream of Cenarius instead of Nature's Vigil because I found myself not using it. It basically turned my Wrath into an Atonement ability which healed for more than Nourish and cost less mana. I used wrath to heal for the first two waves then mainly healed from then and dps'd when I could. I made sure to keep a tree and efflo/shroom under the tank at all times. The extra dps definitely helped get the mobs down alot faster and have atleast a small break between the waves. On my priest I just concentrated on healing but I tried to avoid using Prayer of Healing when I could. I only used it a few times so that I'd get a few PoM procs. I stayed in Serenity stance the whole time. Great for removing chomp. I also talented for free Flash Heal. Since I used my shadowfiend early, it was up again when I needed it the most.

I don't know if anyone else noticed this but you pretty much can tell whether or not the run is going to go well or not. If I notice the tank getting hit hard by wave 2 when there are only two mobs hitting him, I know that I'm not going to be able to keep him up in later waves so I got to the point where I just yielded to save myself the time and aggravation. The same with the dps. It none of them interrupt the guy in the first wave, I know that they aren't really going to do much interrupting. I usually just let that round go though eventhough it still caused issues in wave 5.

I did notice that if I just restart it from inside the instance, the NPCs hardly ever got better. I started to completed exist the scenario and queuing back in. For some reason, it seem to do a better reset on the NPCs. For me anyway. If I stay and do a few rounds and the tank just keep getting raped, almost always when I leave and re-queue, the next time it starts he does ALOT better. When I just stayed in and retried it seems like the same crap just kept happening over & over. Things seems to resolve or the outcome change a bit when I left and came back but I don't know if it's a fact but it certainly just seemed that way to me.
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90 Human Paladin
16215
heh, if a 552 paladin can't do it. I'm glad I didn't even try


What?

You just get used to it, learn all the npc's tricks and mob patterns, save cds for as long as you can incase of emergencies and gem straight spirit till you get the title imo.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16070
Something is still messed up with this in my opinion. A couple days ago I made it to wave 26 in Endless and now I can't even get to wave 10 :( I interrupt when I can, I gemmed mostly for spirit, I dps, I reforged for crit... I don't know what else to do here. I consider myself a good healer but this is insane. Oto dies with 17% health left? Really? Could the NPC's not use some sort of self-heal or protective cd like every normal raider would?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10645
09/27/2013 03:04 PMPosted by Paíge
As someone that completed it, under the ilvl with no amazing trinkets or legendary cloak (i know it's scaled down) AND as a holy priest, it was definitely challenging. I also did it on my undergeared druid as well who was only at 443. I actually found it easier to do on my priest than my druid which was surprising after reading how druids and shaman do so well in there.

By "it" you mean Gold, right? The hotfix didn't actually affect Gold.

And you probably found your priest easier because you know it better and because its gear is closer to 463. The difference between priests and other specs doesn't really become apparent until Endless, and then only if you're really good with using the other spec's utility, and really since the hotfix it's not a big deal until at least the mid-late 20s waves; you can just heal through everything pretty comfortably until then.
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90 Human Paladin
16215
Something is still messed up with this in my opinion. A couple days ago I made it to wave 26 in Endless and now I can't even get to wave 10 :( I interrupt when I can, I gemmed mostly for spirit, I dps, I reforged for crit... I don't know what else to do here. I consider myself a good healer but this is insane. Oto dies with 17% health left? Really? Could the NPC's not use some sort of self-heal or protective cd like every normal raider would?


Shanara I dunno when you got your new gear I see on armory but enchant them!!! haha
Well I'm not sure whats happening, did you change talents by any chance? Talents seem to make or break success in these grounds tbh, and glyphs.

I few stuns and interrupts will help so keep em up, I did find myself hugging those big aoe mantid guys, trying to stop em from casting, they were the only ones I really actively interrupted tho. Saved the big raid cds for flamewalker waves and tank cooldowns for conquerer waves.

Oto dying at 17% hp doesn't seem right though, I've seen him quit at less then 10% but then I've seen npcs nearly die and let me save them with lay on hands, so its odd.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
I don't think that the party is necessarily that bad post hot fix at doing particularly dumb things, but there are still a lot of frustrations.

1. I think that they should make it so the Chomp bleed debuff can not go on the tank. Most of my 20+ endless fails came because of the combination of the debuff on the tank in combination with the large Conqueror being enraged and there being adds still alive from a previous wave. Even if you can get through it, the debuff being on the tank in combination with certain other abilities can force you to burn through so much mana that you're screwed. It's too much RNG - they should just remove that and make the tank not an eligible target for the debuff.

2. They still need to do something about the variance in NPC damage and the frequency in which mobs are still alive from the previous wave going into the next wave. On some waves, the mobs are dead 15 seconds ahead of time; on some others, 3+ mobs are still up. It's healer Proving Grounds; the limiting measure of success should not be whether the NPC damage was good on the critical waves or not.

3. The interrupts are frustrating. You are kind of forced to guess if an NPC is going to interrupt or not and end up wasting a lot of interrupts and Grounding Totems . There should be some way to control the NPC interrupts.

4. They need to fix the drinking between every 10 waves thing. Sometimes it bugs out and you can't drink. Other times, mobs are still (even post hotfix) alive through the 15 second grace period.

5. The dispels are frustrating. In particular, it should not be able to hit 2 targets in melee range. If the debuff goes on the rogue + the tank, you're forced to let one go off - and usually the mage will be standing in melee range and get hit with it too. On that note, why is the mage standing in melee range?
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90 Human Paladin
16215
On that note, why is the mage standing in melee range?


Because they had to make her arcane and run in to arcane explosion >.>
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90 Night Elf Druid
12310
09/28/2013 09:30 PMPosted by Delalina
On that note, why is the mage standing in melee range?


Because they had to make her arcane and run in to arcane explosion >.>


Psh, I love it when she runs into melee range. I wish I could get the hunter to do it, too. I relish that rare moment when a mob gets dragged onto the hunter.

I feel bad for you healers without ground based healing.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10645
Oto dying at 17% hp doesn't seem right though, I've seen him quit at less then 10% but then I've seen npcs nearly die and let me save them with lay on hands, so its odd.

It's unpredictable. Sometimes he's OK with dropping to 10% or even less, sometimes he gives up at 25% or so.

The thing that makes me want to punch my monitor is when he gives up after I Void Shift him - he'll be sitting there at >75% health and just quit, I assume because the next hit would have brought him below his quitting threshold. Whatever that is.

I would think LoH would have the same issue, but I couldn't trigger it when I was fooling around on my paladin. (That was just in Gold, though, because I'm a !@#$ty paladin. It's not easy to trigger the VS problem in Gold either; it mostly seems to happen when there are a lot of sources of damage, like wave *6-*7 Endless with a Chomp and 4-5 mobs on the tank.)
Edited by Kaels on 9/29/2013 12:15 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
16070
I have been playing around with different sets of gear especially for PG's. I got my mana combat regen up to 14.5k and I am still oom the closer it gets to wave 30. And my gear is enchanted. You may have looked at a piece I wasn't using for PG at a time, I did get some new pieces in raid that I didn't wear in PG and therefore may not have been enchanted/gemmed at the time. I changed to Conductivity yesterday and that seemed to work a lot smoother. I use the heck out of healing wave and greater healing wave along with riptide and unleash weapon but the tanks health barely seems to go up at times.
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90 Human Priest
10255
I got to wave 35 but i had to practice and try's for 2 days in a row. If you cant do it no offence but your just not good enough, keep practicing you will eventualy gets it.

Personal Tip: every 10 wave if you can help the npc with dps and clear the wave, you get out of combat.
Also you should try to help your npc kill the hive singer, to prevent them from doin too much AoE dmg.

PS: Yes the npc party is horrible but i seen worst with real players, Imo DEAL with it like it is a pug group your carryng :p
Edited by Mavala on 9/30/2013 2:44 PM PDT
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