Flex raiding 1st week 5.4 discussion

90 Orc Death Knight
12935
So, as the first week of the patch is nearing an end, I thought it would be good for people to tell what they like, and don't like about SoO in FLEX, primarily. There have been more than one post about Norushen, but what do you think of the other bosses? Is Flex working like you hoped it would, or is there room for improvement? Do discuss.
Edited by Muumi on 9/14/2013 7:38 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13595
I would like it to be a little harder/challenging.

Pretty much great system but they could make it clearer or easier to pick what boss you're on with changing group size.

ie

if 14 raiders kill boss 1 and boss 2 and then 2 raiders leave and the remaining 12 kill boss 3.

If the next day all 14 raider que up they will be on boss 3 (because two have yet to kill it) but the 12 raiders who killed boss 3 que up they will be on boss 4 and then can then invite the 2 raiders that had to leave and did not kill boss 3 will not be on boss 4 but still able to get loot from boss 3 if they kill him later.

Easiest way to do this is to just enter the instance with whatever the raid leader has killed or is saved to.
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
16185
I would like it to be a little harder/challenging.

Because you found it faceroll easy? Its not aimed at heroic raiders.

I got first wing, but admit went with mostly skilled regular raiders. I've had less luck with non-raiders even getting past Immersus. Some people in the successful group said they also experienced the same thing.

For people who haven't been successfully raiding normal or heroic raids, this is going to be quite challenging and doesn't need to be any harder. It should help though once more people see the bosses in LFR (provided they can keep the mechanics in LFR at least a bit similar to flex).
Edited by Murdina on 9/14/2013 1:48 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
13045
We went in Flex with a group of guildies. It was easier than I had expected, with my crappy shadow dps and an under-geared dps alt of another guildy. We had a lot of discussions after hitting Norushen's enrage on Normal, so we had our dps cleanse order figured out and one-shot him in Flex. Nevertheless, I'd agree with Murdina that Flex could still be challenging to a pug of inexperienced raiders.
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90 Gnome Monk
5615
I found it to be good for someone that hasn't raided in this expansion really. Did MSV and TOES on my priest, but that's it. I made this guy my main and have never tanked a raid in WOW. I had fun with the first two and even Norushen, though it was late and people could only get three attempts in.

I think it will do what they hoped. Norushen is going to get nerfed. I don't think it should, but it will. Plenty of people are saying its fine, but the only people saying it's face roll are people that are heroic geared and shouldn't be commenting on normal, let alone flex. I think they really had a good idea with this. Immerseus is too easy but I think they want this group of players to have that "oh nice I can raid too" moment.
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90 Troll Hunter
11020
Plenty of people are saying its fine


It is fine, especially in Flex. Quit confusing people screwing up on the cleansing with difficulty of the boss.
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90 Night Elf Mage
13090
My guild is a little above the target gear range for flex, nevertheless we found it a good warmup for the normals we did later in the week. Looking forward to trying the rest of the flex fights.

I admit I was initially a little apprehensive that with flex there would be raid bloat and pressure to run two raids a week to gear up, but it's honestly rather relaxing with how smooth it is (for us at least), it's almost a social experience since we can bring our other undergeared guildies along for the ride while shooting the !@#$ in vent.
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90 Undead Monk
7475
I've actually had a lot of trouble getting into Flex groups. People don't seem keen on more than 11-12 people in a flex group on my server. Some groups get so high-strung forming up that its lead to multiple people being reported.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
15390
Think it is pretty good. We took 10 people from our guild and then 8 others from trade/friends. Seemed tuned just about right for the intended audience.
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90 Worgen Warlock
14465
What I would prefer Blizzard to do with Flex in the future is to not gate it like they are doing for SoO.

I liked ICC back in the day because I was an altoholic, and both versions (albeit 10 was a bit more popular) was easily puggable. If I wanted to kill some time I could hop on one of my many alts, and find a group with relative ease.

I don't want to have to wait the month or two Blizzard is doing for Flex raiding. I don't even remember the schedule 100%, but it was something like every other week being a flex or LFR wing IIRC.

As for the content, it was pretty easy. I did it with a group of randoms, and I was the most geared. One of the the other DPS pulled numbers close to me (cept protectors tehehehehe), and another pulled good numbers. The other DPS were pretty trash. Two shot Norushen the apparent super hard boss, and did Sha in like 2 or 3 which was due to prisons.
Edited by Varlth on 9/14/2013 8:12 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11825
What I would prefer Blizzard to do with Flex in the future is to not gate it like they are doing for SoO.

I liked ICC back in the day because I was an altoholic, and both versions (albeit 10 was a bit more popular) was easily puggable. If I wanted to kill some time I could hop on one of my many alts, and find a group with relative ease.


ICC was gated much, much worse than Flex is...
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90 Orc Warrior
17045
The only problem I have with flex is the assumed ilvl is not clearly stated. You have a lot of groups full of 515 avg ilvl that are failing to hit enrage timers. The first two bosses are complete pushovers which further reinforces people thinking low ilvls are fine
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90 Tauren Druid
19085
ICC was gated much, much worse than Flex is...


bah you're a mage not a ninja :P

But this is pretty much what I wanted to say.

The only problem I have with flex is the assumed ilvl is not clearly stated. You have a lot of groups full of 515 avg ilvl that are failing to hit enrage timers. The first two bosses are complete pushovers which further reinforces people thinking low ilvls are fine


The problem is NOT ilevels. You could set the ilevel at 500 and people will still fail if they don't actually know their class. Ilevel is not really a metric for anything when it comes to difficulty scaling. ToT normal was set for ilevel 496, as that was the ilevel of the previous raid tier. But it had no bearing on whether or not people could attain the numbers required.

People failing to hit enrage timers is not a question of lack of gear... it's a question of lack of knowledge about the raid mechanics, in which case it's a try, try again issue as they learn said mechanics... or lack of knowledge about how to get the most of of the gear they have done. In which case is a practice more issue.

Flex raid is NOT lfr. Flex raid is not really meant to be trucked down in 1 week per wing. It's meant to be long term progression to people who can't find the time, or don't have the skill to do normal modes. Failing to kill bosses is not an indication of overtuning, it's an indication that people need to LEARN the bosses.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10380
From seeing the first two bosses with my guild's social raid (average ~80k DPS), I think the difficulty is great. It's low enough that you can definitely see all of the mechanics and make a solid dent in the boss's health before wiping, but high enough that if you can't push reasonable DPS and healing while following the mechanics reasonably well, you're going to wipe. Protectors felt challenging, but definitely doable with some work on DPS and/or not bringing 6 healers to a 22m flex.

I haven't seen Norushen, so I don't know exactly what the problem is there. If the issue is groups not coordinating cleansing properly, I hope it doesn't get nerfed. But normal was pretty tough on the healing/DPS requirements even with proper cleansing. So I can see that it's possible that there might just be a slight numerical overtuning issue. Or maybe they're just banking on people gearing up some more and don't want it to be faceroll in LFR gear.
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90 Troll Priest
12105
When approached at the item level it is intended for, (meaning not 540 teams) it isn't bad. I only had time to run the first two bosses this week, but my raid group was a mix of 500-520 players and it felt right.


Easiest way to do this is to just enter the instance with whatever the raid leader has killed or is saved to.


"The raid leader's boss progression in the raid instance now determines which bosses are still available when starting a Flexible Raid. Check out this forum post for a detailed explanation on the change."

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10932273/54_Hotfixes_September_13-9_13_2013

Enjoy
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12205
I thought it was tuned well. For those who have issues with normal but are above lfr its a nice medium. They didn't make it impossible to fail. Saying that though, I'm bracing myself for next week for the tears when some of these people hit Galakras.
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90 Orc Shaman
13750
What I would prefer Blizzard to do with Flex in the future is to not gate it like they are doing for SoO.

I liked ICC back in the day because I was an altoholic, and both versions (albeit 10 was a bit more popular) was easily puggable. If I wanted to kill some time I could hop on one of my many alts, and find a group with relative ease.

I don't want to have to wait the month or two Blizzard is doing for Flex raiding. I don't even remember the schedule 100%, but it was something like every other week being a flex or LFR wing IIRC.


Apparently you don't remember ICC back in the day because that was gated in 2 ways. First the wings were released individually and then the end wing bosses had limited attempts.

So, nice selective memory you've got there. Or lack of research, depending on whether you came in late in ICC.

The only problem I have with flex is the assumed ilvl is not clearly stated. You have a lot of groups full of 515 avg ilvl that are failing to hit enrage timers. The first two bosses are complete pushovers which further reinforces people thinking low ilvls are fine


They're failing the enrage timer because they're failing the mechanics of the boss. Not because their item level is too low.

Item level doesn't fix abject stupidity.
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47 Dwarf Warrior
0
Tried a pug, good dps fixes everything, we did not have it. 60-80k dps, average to above average for a LFRer means pugs are in for a bad time.
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90 Orc Warrior
17045
I love all the responses from players who drastically outgear a dps check saying ilvl has nothing to do with it.
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90 Draenei Hunter
9320
It's fun, we have a big guild so we've hit 25 people every time, which I like... I feel one of the perks is being able to bring everyone and their friends.
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