Holy Pally 5.4 Haste or Mastery?

90 Draenei Paladin
14935
Hi guys. This whole new 5.4 thing has me so confused.

I currently am gemmed/reforged to mastery (from ToT) and I grabbed Selfless Healer instead of Eternal Flame (I figure with the nerf it really wasn't quite worth it). I have noticed that my mana has been AMAZING - I barely dip below 50% and I am ALWAYS casting something!

I am now confused because I see people still saying EF is good (which I'm unsure of, I mean our PROT paladin that we raid with has 85k EF TICKS - so it makes me feel like ours is just mediocre). But lately I've also seen a lot of people say they're going haste now instead of mastery.

I know crit is still our worst stat, but can people explain to me why haste>mastery? or why are you going mastery>haste still? I am unsure of what's right for me.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10215
I am unsure of what's right for me.


Would be any different for us ;p It's how you want to play. Personally, I reforge for the 7170 haste breakpoint for EF, and regemmed (Red = Brilliant Blue = Purified Yellow = Artful) . ToT I used mostly by hybrid gems (zen/artful) and pure mastery gems and avoided haste.

YMMV

*edit* lols, just noticed I gemmed an Adept in my chest
Edited by Glorÿ on 9/17/2013 11:12 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
Crit isn't our worst stat. It's just situationally useful. It's actually mathematically as powerful as mastery, however you have to personally balance it against your own overheals (with the legendary cloak, this becomes less of an issue).

Haste however is a mana sink. Having more haste results in more mana usuage. However the trade off to this (now) is your HoPo generation. If you can get your haste to certain levels you get specific advantages.

With EF, you get more healing from more ticks.
With SH, you get more judgements, so more free heals
Additionally you get a lower cooldown on HS, which generates more HoPo.

With mana neutral spells (like HL), you will also get more beacon transfers, and if you are using this as a filler spell, this becomes sizable healing with the 4pc set.

No, we're not gonna run as well with a haste build as Prot, but it will work well depending on playstyle. A crit build favors reactive healers, and a mastery build favors proactive healers (more shields before you need them).

In essense, there is no "best" build, just a build which you will do best at. I personally run Mastery/Crit, however I have seen non-reactive pallies do very well with a straight crit build.

If you aren't having mana issues, then you can do a few things. Convert spirit to a different through put stat (crit or haste). Adjust your mastery down (it is a mana conserver), into a different throughput stat. Adjust the majority of your crit to haste (remember to hit breakpoiints)
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90 Pandaren Priest
8345
idk why you're expecting to match prot's ef when theirs is super-charged by vengeance
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9730
Totally depends on your playstyle. The reason why paladins stacked mastery early on in the expansion was to reduce our time spent casting, and instead rely upon Illuminated Healing. Now, with higher spirit levels, there's a lot less concern with mana. Paladins all over are able to switch from mastery heavy gear to haste gear. The best thing to keep in mind is that mileage is always going to vary depending on the encounter and how your team handles mechanics.

As far as talents go: I still like Eternal Flame. Go with preference.
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90 Human Paladin
12860
I'm currently using a heavy Haste build, reaching all the way up to the 10,867 HBP mark for Eternal Flame. Even with this much Haste, I run into no mana issues in all of the fights I've done so far in Siege of Orgrimmar. In fact, I'm currently contemplating slashing Spirit for additional Mastery.
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90 Troll Shaman
13290
I use the 14535 haste breakpoint for EF > crit. I pretty much drop as much spirit as possible (at 6.5k right now) and rely on glyph of Illumination for regen. I've done the first 11 bosses and a 20% wipe on Siegemaster without any mana or healing issues really. GoI is giving me more mana than Divine Plea and heroic Horridon's combined sometimes.

It certainly feels like my play style is very reactive and I've generally always preferred low spirit builds. Probably not the "right" way to go, but works well for me.
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90 Draenei Paladin
14935
I suppose I could take out some haste to get a bit more. What are some of the soft caps?

I'm really low with haste...I just don't understand why people are getting EF>SH

SH=faster heals that cost less mana = which means you're healing more and not going oom
EF=a heal that costs 3 HP that puts an 18k HoT on the target that doesn't proc your mastery shield anymore.

That's mostly what I'm confused about
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90 Human Paladin
12860
SH=faster heals that cost less mana = which means you're healing more and not going oom


Which requires you to Judgment in order to gain this effect, which is a global cooldown spent not doing anything directly proactive towards your healing. The heals themselves don't cost "less mana" when you consider the 7,200 mana cost to Judgment in order to gain the Selfless Healer stacks.

I've seen a good amount of Holy Paladins showing success using the talent, but it's definitely not for everyone. I personally hate the play style.
Edited by Areos on 9/17/2013 3:01 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
13290
I'd probably go SH and go full mastery if I did 25s.

With my gear, EF does 1032750 average healing per cast, LoD 434519, WoG 180141. EF is 'more healing' as well and completely free since you'd use HoPo either way, but the disadvantage is that it heals over time.

edit: EF also overheals more of course.
Edited by Jasmine on 9/17/2013 3:26 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
. GoI is giving me more mana than Divine Plea and heroic Horridon's combined sometimes.


What are your numbers because DP has the potential to return a ridiculous amount of mana now.

Out of curiosity.
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90 Troll Shaman
13290
What are your numbers because DP has the potential to return a ridiculous amount of mana now.

Out of curiosity.

I'm sure I would've gained more mana if I went for spirit, but I rather go for an output stat in 10s tbh. But the meta and H Horridon's really allows you to drop a ton. :p

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v16yxxi7hsg0oqg3/details/7/?s=8634&e=9097
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11610
Not bad at all. Impressed at how much it returned.
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