Diablo® III

Why Hardcore in D3 is the way to go



Nope.

/signed

Fellow HC player


He's right, when dealing with lag and disconnections you have to measure the damage (taken) over time and build on effective health to withstand it. In D2 it meant lower damage and high vitality, in D3 it means higher mitigation and lower MP. In other terms, you build for the highest stress, and consider lag and disconnections as part of such stress.


I'm not disagreeing that you can build to prepare for such disasters such as a disconnect. I'm disagreeing that it "adds to the fun". It doesn't. There isn't anything fun about "OH SHI- I DC'D PLZ LET ME BE ALIVE PLZ LET ME BE ALIVE PLZ LET ME BE AL- NOOOOOOO IM NOT ALIVE!!!! NOOOOO!!!!"

Even if you DO live, it's a stressful experience. It's not fun. Love HC, but "building for lag" should have never been a mandatory part of the play style, since lag isn't part of game, it's a technological malfunction completely outside of the ruleset and gameplay of Diablo 3.
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I'm sure everyone has their own concept of what is fun to them.

If hardcore does it for you, great.

However, I don't think anyone will be able declare definitively what mode is the way to go any more than declaring which favour of icecream is the best (for everyone).
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 10/23/2013 5:44 PM PDT
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I'm not disagreeing that you can build to prepare for such disasters such as a disconnect. I'm disagreeing that it "adds to the fun". It doesn't. There isn't anything fun about "OH SHI- I DC'D PLZ LET ME BE ALIVE PLZ LET ME BE ALIVE PLZ LET ME BE AL- NOOOOOOO IM NOT ALIVE!!!! NOOOOO!!!!"

Even if you DO live, it's a stressful experience. It's not fun. Love HC, but "building for lag" should have never been a mandatory part of the play style, since lag isn't part of game, it's a technological malfunction completely outside of the ruleset and gameplay of Diablo 3.


Ya, the foundations of a 10 story building are different from a 100 story one. On the latter, you also need to take into account other factors, such as wind speed and if the area has hurricanes.

Now, server going down is something I can't be aware in advance, nor blackouts and such. Besides, someone pointed out it takes 30 seconds for the server to remove the character from the game, which I find ridiculous. But lag is different, it's somewhat predictable. A character can be built around it. Therefore I can understand the fun on skyscraper architects.
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Hardcore all the way. I exclusively play HC.

I originally went HC to avoid the RMAH, but as it turns out people found ways to channel the RMAH from SC to HC. (everyone that got scammed doing HC:SC trades deserved it completely).

With a smart group and smart play your chances of dying to Lag/DC can be reduced, but it is a part of the format. If you want the thrill of HC you need to accept the Cons with the Pros. Personally I think the Pros far outweigh the cons.
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I would consider seriously playing HC if it was an offline version. Online is always subject to some random thing happening that is not your fault. I'd like to know that if i die, it's of old age ( boredom ingame) or my own fault.

With that said, i don't need to listen to Roosevelt when i have a more closeby incentive ingame.
Act 2 :
Adria and Leah talking :
Leah : Ughhhhh This is DIFFicult
Adria : Everything worth doing is...

There's another advice Adria gives, but sadly i forgot the exact words :
"If you keep holding back, you'll never (progress?)".
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10/23/2013 11:27 AMPosted by HermitBoy
Theodore Roosevelt once said


You assume any of us give a crap what he said, or even like Roosevelt.
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I'm not disagreeing that you can build to prepare for such disasters such as a disconnect. I'm disagreeing that it "adds to the fun". It doesn't. There isn't anything fun about "OH SHI- I DC'D PLZ LET ME BE ALIVE PLZ LET ME BE ALIVE PLZ LET ME BE AL- NOOOOOOO IM NOT ALIVE!!!! NOOOOO!!!!"

Even if you DO live, it's a stressful experience. It's not fun. Love HC, but "building for lag" should have never been a mandatory part of the play style, since lag isn't part of game, it's a technological malfunction completely outside of the ruleset and gameplay of Diablo 3.


Ya, the foundations of a 10 story building are different from a 100 story one. On the latter, you also need to take into account other factors, such as wind speed and if the area has hurricanes.

Now, server going down is something I can't be aware in advance, nor blackouts and such. Besides, someone pointed out it takes 30 seconds for the server to remove the character from the game, which I find ridiculous. But lag is different, it's somewhat predictable. A character can be built around it. Therefore I can understand the fun on skyscraper architects.


I appreciate your analogy, but I think it is fundamentally an improper one. Wind speed and environmental factors are a part of the nature of "building making". Since Day 1 of architecture these things have been of a concern to builders since buildings exist in the natural world, are subject to it, and have a purpose to withstand/protect its inhabitants from said nature.

It is unlike Diablo III because lag is not a "core" element of the Diablo III experience, nor the video game experience for that matter. The nature of "playing Diablo", I would argue, has nothing to do with your internet connection, server stability, or any of those things. I think those things are more akin to "how Diablo works", but NOT "how we play Diablo". I think those are two different categories.

Sorry if this reads confusing. I think your analogy is false because the nature of building making is not the same as the nature of playing Diablo, and by proxy the nature of playing Hardcore. You analogy could work if we were discussing "the nature of making Diablo work", but we're talking about how we play it as players, not developers.

We are not "architects" or "engineers" in any sense of the word. We are players.
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10/23/2013 09:18 PMPosted by CompleatWych
We are not "architects" or "engineers" in any sense of the word. We are players.


Hehe, yet we call "build" to the combination of skills.

It really doesn't matter if bank robbery is against the law, or bank business is not about security. Bank robbers exist so security is needed. Is not the same security in all branches. And the home next to a branch won't likely have a vault.

Same, it doesn't matter if someone thinks lag shouldn't exist. It does. Developers program their games trying to reduce the amount of code exchange, but there's no practical way they can control the amount of servers involved.

Once I tracked my signal and servers involved, it was amusing. It went from my PC to Lima's main server, then to a satellite (yeah, space), Bogota (back to Earth), Madrid (I wonder why to Europe but yeah, that's where it went), Panama, Miami and, only then, to US East. Is that Blizzard's fault? I don't think so. Did I make my HC chars as if I was having 80 ping? Nope, I had 600 average so I took those 0.6 seconds into account for more effective health. Did it work? Kinda, on 3rd D2 Ladder Lokki peaked #24, reached level 96 before season ending, and never died.

What I'm saying is that it can be done. Is another thing if someone's is willing to walk the extra mile to make it work, or if the result is fun enough. Currently, I'm not interested in flawless performance and am focused in progression. Reason why I don't see HC as an alternative as progression is not the main goal in HC. Just that.
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@LokiHap

Hardcore all the way. I exclusively play HC.

I originally went HC to avoid the RMAH, but as it turns out people found ways to channel the RMAH from SC to HC. (everyone that got scammed doing HC:SC trades deserved it completely).

With a smart group and smart play your chances of dying to Lag/DC can be reduced, but it is a part of the format. If you want the thrill of HC you need to accept the Cons with the Pros. Personally I think the Pros far outweigh the cons.


I started in SC because I wanted to test and learn the game. That's pretty difficult in HC as testing the limits is not wise there. During the space race, people said that Cape Cañaveral had one button to detonate a failed rocket, while Start City had two, one for the rocket, the other for the scientist. For testing and learning, HC is Star City ;)

About cheats, I don't know. I see games as I see women, they're supposed to challenge my wit, not my wallet. But I understand there are people that lack the wit and need the wallet to get somewhere. For that matter, if not RMAH then forum gold, another 3rd party or some other cheat make SC and HC all the same. And Ladder won't be different.
Edited by Nicator#1579 on 10/24/2013 1:57 AM PDT
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once i fixed my internet (ie went from wireless to wired) ive never had a problem. in fact i havent disconnected since july when i made the switch.

HC is the quintessential RPG experience, a band of heros setting off, they kill the bad guy or die trying.

i switched to hardcore in september 2012. since then ive had exactly 0 desire to ever play softcore again, thats how much better it is haha.

gearing is much more balanced, ive found it much more difficult and much more satisfying to find a balance of both ehp and dps. as gearing only dps works until ...well that one moment when it doesnt ;). gearing only ehp is just as terrible haha. i was shocked how softcore taught me the basics, but i had no clue on how to gear. hardcore was a real wakeup and now i know how to build a great character, a great killer, and a great survivor.

still the same content. i do mp10, ive cleared the ubers many times on 10, ive played the game on 10, ive got groups for high mp haha. its not like hardcore is far behind :P, but the top end gear is somewhat limited.

economy is much better, low level gear sells since everyone is always making new characters. you can make sales all along the road to 60 and be able to gear and progress at a natural rate. theres no rmah though (and im excited for no ah at all!). in fact, i never learned how to flip items. i just played and sold what i found. without tooting my own horn too much, im very proud of my character roster :)

the thrill of almost dying is amazing. i love it every time. time slows down, blood thunders through your veins. you never remember dying in softcore, yet i can see every one of my hardcore deaths vividly XD.

thing is, you'll either love it or hate it. its not for everyone, and many cant handle the sting of starting over. i see so many posts that basically all say the same thing "i dont play hardcore because ___". thats fine, but thats your problem :), you just arent a hardcore player. i have 2 paragon 100s in hardcore, ive lost 2 paragon 65+ characters. ive disconnected and died (before fixing my internet), but i raised a 100 while disconnecting (with a good team). the only thing preventing you from trying HC is you.

i started HC because i was a little bored, figured a fresh start would make things interesting. luckily for me, HC affords me that luxury fairly regularily ;)
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I agree with you to a point OP.
Sc death is meaningless, so I too tried D3 hardcore though in all my years of playing D2 I had never tried it.

Unfortunately there is too much pain for me in D3. I died a couple of cheap deaths the game holds in store, not a single one from bad connection.

The thrill that every step matters was great at first. Then my deaths showed me that outgearing the content to a point that it was really boring 99% of the time was not enough to survive the cheap shots the game has. So to make it I'd have had to make it even more boring. I couldn't bring myself to continue trying afterwards.

Unfortunately sc had even less appeal after that. No thrill at all.
Death penalty really needs to be upped a little in sc.
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what I don't understand is why all the lag and disconnetion on HC and mostlly none if any on SC
if it would be my internet connection then it would be the same on both.
This is something Blizz should look into and fix.
after all they are both on Blizz server not just SC.
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yea you cant play HC with any thing that has skills that make you move faster or you just clip back in to enemys and die it happens all the time on my WW barb
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It's not hard to avoid rubberbanding on a barb.

I just made a new HC WW barb a few days ago and I've yet to rubberband once.

Simply put, when your fury bar drops below 1/4, stop WWing and bash a few times to get a full fury bar again.

Takes practice, but it's so easy to never Rubberband if you play smart.

That said, D3 HC for life. Played SC for a few months when the game first came out.

Eventually made the switch to HC and have never looked back.

That being said, I've lost a 90, 83, 79 para HC and many more between 20-60 over the last year of play.

Never going back to SC ever.
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10/24/2013 01:11 AMPosted by Nicator
Same, it doesn't matter if someone thinks lag shouldn't exist. It does. Developers program their games trying to reduce the amount of code exchange, but there's no practical way they can control the amount of servers involved.


True. Blizzard can't program a game without lag or disconnects.

But they can program a game where lag or disconnects don't end your game, and maybe kill your character.

They kinda already did that. In Starcraft 2.

I see no reason why we couldn't get a 'fail-safe' in Diablo 3, where the game is paused and saved for later restoration the moment unusually high latency is detected.

Just make sure people are restored to the exact moment before lag started, so you cant exploit it Diablo 2-style (as in people forcing a disconnect just before they were going to die).
Edited by Shadout#2849 on 10/24/2013 10:39 AM PDT
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Hardcore would be fantastic if there was a single player/LAN mode that didn't require internet. This used to be a part of Diablo. I don't know why they dumbed it down so much..
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10/24/2013 10:37 AMPosted by Shadout
Same, it doesn't matter if someone thinks lag shouldn't exist. It does. Developers program their games trying to reduce the amount of code exchange, but there's no practical way they can control the amount of servers involved.


True. Blizzard can't program a game without lag or disconnects.

But they can program a game where lag or disconnects don't end your game, and maybe kill your character.

They kinda already did that. In Starcraft 2.

I see no reason why we couldn't get a 'fail-safe' in Diablo 3, where the game is paused and saved for later restoration the moment unusually high latency is detected.

Just make sure people are restored to the exact moment before lag started, so you cant exploit it Diablo 2-style (as in people forcing a disconnect just before they were going to die).


I agree. I lost a paragon 89 and a paragon 91 to lag. I can't seem to make it to 100 due to the lag barrier. There must be some way to overcome this.
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Balls
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The scarcity of gg gear is another enjoyable factor for me in HC.

I'm sure you could build my p100 monk as a softcore version for supercheap, less than 10m?. But for HC standards, it is actually a decent monk. And pretty satisfying piecing it together over the months.

And we all die, it's a part of HC.
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The problem i have with HC as a Barb is the rubberbanding issue. Why spend hours playing just to die while trying to WW.?
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