Diablo® III

BoA (+ delay to trade in clan) to save the game

Edit 3: Just wanted to say I have more respect towards Blizzard for making an effort in rewarding playing the game. It means they actually care.
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There you go, a great video by Moldran explaining the pros of BoA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cwHPL1tZzw

I totally agree with him, and question the ones that are anti-BoA, meaning that I wonder what are their goals: having fun playing Diablo or making profit flipping and botting.

Keep in mind that a lot of people make a lot of money out of that and that their point of view on BoA may not be selfless. To the ones that argue that the AH will be gone, the game will still be pay to win throughout the 3rd party websites, if BoA isn't added.

To the ones that argue that it doesn't matter if it's pay to win if there's no real pvp, I say that it does affect us in the way we look at items and other players.

Would you rather see a godly player and think: "Bah, it's a credit-card wielder", or "Nice! This guy's character is insane!"

BoA (+ delay to trade in clan) to save the game!
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Edit 1:

The main argument against BoA seems to be: "Why do you care if others are pay to win?"

1) I care because I care about the game in general. I don't like the fact that people faceroll content and brag and consider themselves the best while not earning it. It's a bit selfish of myself, but it's true.

I don't like feeling I am not being as efficient or on the same level as others. Why do you think people play ladders if they play alone? They like the feeling of a fresh start for everyone. It's the same for BoA, or OP classes, like WW barbs. We feel like we are losing something if we don't play like them. It's nice to know that everyone is not abusing the game.

2) The fact that the game can be considered "pay to win" with the AH, and still will be with no BoA, affects the players who are not pay to win by removing any respect we have towards items and how we got them. If we see someone that has amazing gear, there is no way of knowing how he got it, and we must assume he wielded his credit cards.

3) Similar to #1, Blizzard should care that their game is considered "pay to win", like I do, cause it affects the quality of the game in a way. A "pay to win" game has this shallow side to it and that is kind of bad.

4) Blizzard should also care because a "pay to win" game will give players amazing gear too quickly, and these persons will a) quit the game faster, because they will have almost nothing to do because the game will be too easy too quiclky, and b) people will complain the game is unrewarding because they can't find upgrades on their own.

5) A variant of self-found is the most fun version for everyone. You should care about that as I do, even if you don't realize it.
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Edit 2:

Video by ArchontheWizard on this at the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m1cB0q6YxQ
Edited by bearr#2157 on 11/18/2013 2:33 PM PST
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11/16/2013 08:08 PMPosted by bearr
I totally agree with him, and question the ones that are anti-BoA, meaning that I wonder what are their goals: having fun playing Diablo or making profit flipping and botting.


So these are the only possibilities? You really think it's that widespread, and there can be no other reasons? Seriously, dude....

So clans and groups. Group games. What if a person prefers solo? Or only playing with one or two other people that they already know from outside this game? Guess that doesn't matter to the elitists who want to dictate to everyone because of course they're right.

I could care less where someone else got their gear. Know why? It's none of my business.
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I could care less where someone else got their gear. Know why? It's none of my business.


Great for you buddy, but it does affect the game. If you always play alone, nothing really affects you, but it does affect in a way the majority of us.

These are not the only options, but it's what I think is the best.

BoA all the way, but the details after that can vary a bit (x amount of time to trade to who, friends/clans/group...).

Still, I find funny that people have bashed Blizzard for a year and a half to take out the AH. They finally do, but people don't seem to realize that the game will still be pay to win and boring (there's almost no point in playing if you can faceroll all the content because the goldy gear would be pay to win and easily acquired).

And BoE will profit flippers (who basically only play the economy and not the game), and BoE and BoT will profit botters, who would scrap the economy in a few months anyway.

11/16/2013 08:15 PMPosted by Nephalem
What if a person prefers solo? Or only playing with one or two other people that they already know from outside this game?


Then the details could be "BoA + X amount of time to trade to your friends list".

And if you play alone, then you would find all your upgrades by yourself or by your friends that you have in your friends list. Plus, the items will be way better in RoS, so finding your own upgrades will be rewarding. You will also need to salvage a lot of items to upgrade your gear through transmogrification.
Edited by bearr#2157 on 11/16/2013 8:27 PM PST
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11/16/2013 08:23 PMPosted by bearr
Great for you buddy, but it does affect the game.


Really? If I had not posted here, how would you ever known I existed, much less what my gear is? How exactly does it effect you, if I choose to buy a set of gear? What further pain does it inflict upon you if I then pass that gear to someone I do play with when I upgrade?

I dunno. All this stuff about flippers and tycoons all the time. I am beginning to wonder - Are we hearing from the ones who failed at "AH Tycoon" and are now jealous of those who succeeded? It's not impossible.
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I watched the video and he doesn't really say any pros to BoA except that it will destroy botters and gold buyers/sellers.... which isn't really true.

Botters will still be spamming your inbox and trade chat trying to sell materials and gold so it's definitely not going to be the nail in that coffin.

Now to why I dislike the BoA idea...

As far as the issue with pay to win, who cares? Why does anyone care if someone goes out and spends their hard earned money on pixels in a game? It's not like there is any competition in this game pvp or otherwise.

Getting rid of the AH should be enough to stem the devaluation issue by simply making things less accessible. If players have to work to find someone to trade with by either spamming trade chat or joining trade games it's going to slow things down for everyone. Not to mention while botters can bot to find the items they will still need live people to take the time to try and trade them. Removing the AH creates a limited market, every item isn't available all the time at the cheapest price, sellers aren't always having to under cut every other seller out there. These reasons will ensure items don't devalue or at least wont devalue as quickly.

As for his idea of trading between friends and guild members, how is it fair that someone in the largest guild or with the largest friends list gets access to more items then anyone else?

If any sort of binding of items must happen it needs to be BoE or BoT. We need the ability to trade away those perfect items that just aren't the right fit for your current build or class.
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Still, I find funny that people have bashed Blizzard for a year and a half to take out the AH. They finally do, but people don't seem to realize that the game will still be pay to win and boring (there's almost no point in playing if you can faceroll all the content because the goldy gear would be pay to win and easily acquired).

And BoE will profit flippers (who basically only play the economy and not the game), and BoE and BoT will profit botters, who would scrap the economy in a few months anyway.


I find it funny how people consider sketchy third party sites equivalent to the RMAH. Fact is only a very small fraction of players would ever even consider buying from a third party site. Also, how does it affect you if someone does use a third party site to get all their gear? PvP is trash and there is no word of improvements on that front and as far as I know D3 offers no other form of competition.

Yes BoE and BoT will profit botters (far less then the RMAH). However, the economy will not be trashed in a few months as items will still be next to impossible to come by. It will take hours to find someone selling what your looking for at the price your willing to pay, the entire D3 universe will no longer be at your finger tips, this is the benefit to removing the AH.
Edited by frothylager#1349 on 11/16/2013 8:46 PM PST
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Great for you buddy, but it does affect the game.


Really? If I had not posted here, how would you ever known I existed, much less what my gear is? How exactly does it effect you, if I choose to buy a set of gear? What further pain does it inflict upon you if I then pass that gear to someone I do play with when I upgrade?

I dunno. All this stuff about flippers and tycoons all the time. I am beginning to wonder - Are we hearing from the ones who failed at "AH Tycoon" and are now jealous of those who succeeded? It's not impossible.


Wow, a lot of non-sence out here. I'm a AH failure because I like BoA? Actually, I did some money out of D3 even if I like playing the game more. I got back my 60$ and bought my girlfriend some great gifts with some gold I cashed out.

As for how pay to win affects us, Moldran talks about it in his video and I wrote about it twice, so you must have problems reading and listening.
Edited by bearr#2157 on 11/16/2013 9:02 PM PST
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11/16/2013 08:35 PMPosted by frothylager
As far as the issue with pay to win, who cares? Why does anyone care if someone goes out and spends their hard earned money on pixels in a game? It's not like there is any competition in this game pvp or otherwise.


I already answered to that so. And Moldran did too.

11/16/2013 08:35 PMPosted by frothylager
Getting rid of the AH should be enough to stem the devaluation issue by simply making things less accessible.


No, items will be almost as accessible, and more open to shady trade and scams.

11/16/2013 08:35 PMPosted by frothylager
As for his idea of trading between friends and guild members, how is it fair that someone in the largest guild or with the largest friends list gets access to more items then anyone else?


Come on. It is so easy to make friends in D3. Just go in the Looking for Group section. Seriously man...

11/16/2013 08:44 PMPosted by frothylager
I find it funny how people consider sketchy third party sites equivalent to the RMAH.


You find D2JSP sketchy?

11/16/2013 08:44 PMPosted by frothylager
Also, how does it affect you if someone does use a third party site to get all their gear? PvP is trash and there is no word of improvements on that front and as far as I know D3 offers no other form of competition.


I already answered that -_- Read people, read.
Edited by bearr#2157 on 11/16/2013 9:08 PM PST
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Only trade in the playing groups everything else will be abused.

Everything else is "obvious" in that video.

But its also wrong to think "i respect u because u wokred hard for your stuff farming 7 hours a day since release".

At least i didnt get any respect....... more like called a "learn to play".

But well i am still proud and i dont care but just pointing out thats wrong.

The current gamer generation respects players who buy items for $ or flipped items to buy 500 billion char. In my eyes thats NOTHING to be pround of

Sad but true!
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The current gamer generation respects players who buy items for $ or flipped items to buy 500 billion char. In my eyes thats NOTHING to be pround of

Sad but true!


Yes it's true. But that can be changed. The first step would be to add BoA and maybe a little more respect towards "playing the game" can be found again.

Secondly, the self-found route (with trading with friends) is the most rewarding and fun to play. People tend to go the easy way and the easy way is the pay to win one. Sadly.

When everything is pay to win, people tend 1) to have godly gear easily and fast, so they faceroll the content and find the game boring, and 2) complain that the game is unrewarding because they can't find upgrades on their own.

It also affects the others, because we feel we are not being as efficient or on the same level as others. Why do you think people play ladders if they play alone? They like the feeling of a start fresh for everyone. It's the same for BoA, or OP classes, like WW barbs. We feel like we are losing something if we don't play like them. It's nice to know that everyone is not abusing the game.
Edited by bearr#2157 on 11/16/2013 9:35 PM PST
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Good point with the ww barb.
I played it and made paragon 100 SO FAST and it was so cheap.
But well its not fun for me so i am still playing my trashy wd.
Its like 15 hours difference 1-100 for me.

I hope Blizzard will ballance the new 60-70 skills so every char gets the exactly same killspeed so noone will be sad.
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11/16/2013 09:01 PMPosted by bearr
As for how pay to win affects us, Moldran talks about it in his video and I wrote about it twice, so you must have problems reading and listening.


Wow, that's rich. I didn't bother to watch the video or read the article, post, or whatever it was. And if you think I said you were a failure at Ah in my statement, then you are probably the last one who should be preaching about reading comprehension.

Unless you are just Jonesing for more drama. In that case, carry on.
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11/16/2013 08:44 PMPosted by frothylager
Also, how does it affect you if someone does use a third party site to get all their gear? PvP is trash and there is no word of improvements on that front and as far as I know D3 offers no other form of competition.


I suspect the truth is closer to something to do with e-peens and insecurity. With a dose of "if I don't like it, you can't have it".

Or in the case of some who are born-again non-traders, "If I don't like it any more, you can't have it."
Hypocrisy is a nice seasoning to add to this dish.
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I don't know what is your problem buddy, but you haven't given any arguments whatsoever, while not watching the video at the top of my post so, I don't know what's your point.

Good point with the ww barb.
I played it and made paragon 100 SO FAST and it was so cheap.
But well its not fun for me so i am still playing my trashy wd.
Its like 15 hours difference 1-100 for me.

I hope Blizzard will ballance the new 60-70 skills so every char gets the exactly same killspeed so noone will be sad.


Yeah. My main class is a Demon hunter (always will be), but I found myself rolling a barb just because I felt like losing my time with my other classes.
Edited by bearr#2157 on 11/17/2013 3:07 AM PST
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Posts: 1,637
11/16/2013 09:31 PMPosted by bearr
It's nice to know that everyone is not abusing the game.

Who's everyone? And BOA won't accomplish this.
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I edited my first post.

11/17/2013 03:10 AMPosted by Baconan
It's nice to know that everyone is not abusing the game.

Who's everyone? And BOA won't accomplish this.


Well, I don't have any surveys, but I feel I'm not the only one. Why won't BoA won't accomplish that? I'd like to know.
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Posts: 1,637
11/17/2013 03:23 AMPosted by bearr
Why won't BoA won't accomplish that? I'd like to know.

Because it's contingent upon, "not everyone abusing the game". Who's everyone? And if you can't identify who, "everyone" is, how will BOA stop them?
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Why won't BoA won't accomplish that? I'd like to know.

Because it's contingent upon, "not everyone abusing the game". Who's everyone? And if you can't identify who, "everyone" is, how will BOA stop them?


Okay. Well, I'd say, that I feel that knowing people are abusing the game affects me in a lot of ways (see my Edit in my OP).

If I feel like this, I know I'm not the only one, and from the debates on the subject, it does seem like I'm not alone on this.

Also, the community strongly asks that we have ladders. Ladders are similar to BoA on this point. People that don't like ladders could say: "Well, we don't need ladders. If you want a fresh start, just play self-found by yourself." But it's more than that. People want to know that everyone starts from scratch. Why is this wrong with BoA?

Also, I would like to hear your opinions on my Edit.
Edited by bearr#2157 on 11/17/2013 3:35 AM PST
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Posts: 1,637
11/17/2013 03:34 AMPosted by bearr
"Well, we don't need ladders. If you want a fresh start, just play self-found by yourself." But it's more than that. People want to know that everyone starts from scratch. Why is this wrong with BoA?


but I want Ladders and I'm not opposed to starting from scratch and BOA is neither.

the game will still be pay to win throughout the 3rd party websites

If you're counting 3rd party sites too, the game will still be pay2win with or without BOA
Edited by Orecchiette#1114 on 11/17/2013 3:43 AM PST
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I edited my first post.


Who's everyone? And BOA won't accomplish this.


Well, I don't have any surveys, but I feel I'm not the only one. Why won't BoA won't accomplish that? I'd like to know.


People had bot's in D2 to run various boss's. I had friends, who couldn't be bothered with farming Mephisto or Pindle. So they had a bot to do it for them while they slept or was at work. Then they come home, see what they found, and took it from there.

BOA will not change abuse. It will not change the fact, that some people will get ahead of you. BOA will not change the fact, that some people simply have more game time than others (What? should we change Diablo to having a opening and closing time, just to please everyone? Diablo is open from 8 am to 17 pm...lol?) BOA will not change the fact, that people will go to great lengths, just to feel better than others, and they are usually not scared of the consequences while doing it. Look at elite sports performers. They risk everything doing illegal enhancements, yet they do it anyways. BOA will not change human nature!!

Those of us, that doesn't use cheating in order to get ahead, are being dictated by those who does. Do society cave into criminals? It is not safe to walk around at night, so no one is allowed to go out after nightfall! Think about that for a minute.
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