Diablo® III

How does BOA help the me as a player?

11/16/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Nekar
I understand that it screws over botters and 3rd party sites, but why should I care?

Because you will;
1. No longer be spammed with dozens of 'friend requests' to buy BiS(now BOA) gear from botters.
2. ALL channel won't be swamped with trade spam from botters.
3. Scammers will also have the above same problems.
4. BOA means much less reason to hack you account for gear.
5. Too many other to list.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out what hurts botters/scammers is in general GOOD for everyone else...


You know what else hurts botters/scammers?

Giving Blizzard your SSN every time you purchase a game so that if you get banned you cannot purchase another game ever again
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We can contrast it to WoW.

If you look at the players in WoW that actually run the content, how many of them have the gear that folks need? You'll find that most of the players have the gear they need. Not all of them have all of the slots filled, but they all have the gear they need to progress. And they got this gear via gameplay.


Except you're forgetting the fact that they can only aquire this by depending on groups of 5/10 through Raid / Dungeon Bosses that can only be killed once per day / week. Here in Diablo these items can be dropped by any monster... big difference.
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Posts: 8,029
You are saying that people griefing others is a good reason to get rid of something, essentially. There are people who grief in multiplayer either by pulling massive mobs or by simply sitting in town leaching quests. Should we get rid of multiplayer?


Gotta love the straws!

Maybe for you. Don't generalize that being powerful compared to others was the main source of fun. I had fun on making builds that were viable within the other builds I made. I wasn't interested in competing with others because I already knew I wasn't good enough to compete with others.


This is still possible even with BOA legendaries, thank you.

Blizzard stated that Legendaries are supposed to be game breaking / build defining. That strikes me as being vastly superior to what rares could ever hope to achieve. Also keep in mind that with the exception of a handful of slots, legs/sets are entirely BiS, and not by a small margin either.


With the current system in place, trading gear means less re-playability for you.

Blizzard doesn't want that.

They want you to earn your endgame gear. I know, still hard to grasp.
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Posts: 10,698
1) AH's going away. You can't bring it up as a possible problem anymore.

Maybe for you. Don't generalize that being powerful compared to others was the main source of fun. I had fun on making builds that were viable within the other builds I made. I wasn't interested in competing with others because I already knew I wasn't good enough to compete with others.


Sure. There are exceptions. I'm talking about general ingame goals - which is, I believe for most people, to have a 'powerful' character. Which is relative to other players.

If you want to say 'oh just let everyone do whatever they want it doesn't affect you'...I can point out quite a few problems there :)

2) anonymity does ugly things to a community.

You are saying that people griefing others is a good reason to get rid of something, essentially. There are people who grief in multiplayer either by pulling massive mobs or by simply sitting in town leaching quests. Should we get rid of multiplayer?


No. Don't strawman.

I'm saying that 'free trade' in Diablo 2 caused an ugly mindset that encouraged scamming, exploiting and generally being a jerk. Still see far too many posts bragging about how someone ripped off/tricked someone.

It's very different to griefing since this gives the perpetrator a massive incentive to do so.

3) again, AH is gone. I don't know if you are familiar with d2 trading. That thing was sluggish. People will take days to find a specific rare item. Keep in mind also we don't have things like widespread dupes.

Blizzard stated that Legendaries are supposed to be game breaking / build defining. That strikes me as being vastly superior to what rares could ever hope to achieve. Also keep in mind that with the exception of a handful of slots, legs/sets are entirely BiS, and not by a small margin either.


Yes. But Blizzard...say a lot of things and often not very clearly. Read between the lines and take a look at some of the datamined affixes.
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We can contrast it to WoW.

If you look at the players in WoW that actually run the content, how many of them have the gear that folks need? You'll find that most of the players have the gear they need. Not all of them have all of the slots filled, but they all have the gear they need to progress. And they got this gear via gameplay.

Farming gold is not game play. Buying gold is not game play. Game play is going mano-a-mano with the mobs and beating them down.

You can buy transitional gear in WoW, but you can't buy BiS gear. You have to work the content to get it. You can get gear buy some gear in WoW, which means you can farm or buy gold to get gear in WoW, but it won't be BiS, not hardly. It'll be OK gear.

This is what BoA buys us. This capability for the average player to play the game, and gear up. That's how it's supposed to be.

You want quality gear, you'll need to put the hours in to get it. BoA lets Blizzard tune how many hours that will be. The current tuning makes it absurd and unrealistic hours. But now, with the AH, you can level a character up, buy some gold, and have an MP10 geared toon pretty much instantly.


No you cannot.

WoW has static loot drops that drop off of specific monsters with relatively high drop rates. They also WANT you to play specific raids. Diablo has random drops from random monsters with random affixes. They don't care if you play A1 vs A4.

WoW is about killing hard content once a week with a group of people and getting a near guaranteed drop because A) you earned it by clearing the content and B) stuff is divided by group so there needs to be a guaranteed drop so everyone can eventually get something.

Diablo is about killing things as fast as possible to over rule RNG simply by brute forcing it.
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11/16/2013 08:21 AMPosted by End
You are saying that people griefing others is a good reason to get rid of something, essentially. There are people who grief in multiplayer either by pulling massive mobs or by simply sitting in town leaching quests. Should we get rid of multiplayer?


Gotta love the straws!

Maybe for you. Don't generalize that being powerful compared to others was the main source of fun. I had fun on making builds that were viable within the other builds I made. I wasn't interested in competing with others because I already knew I wasn't good enough to compete with others.


This is still possible even with BOA legendaries, thank you.

Blizzard stated that Legendaries are supposed to be game breaking / build defining. That strikes me as being vastly superior to what rares could ever hope to achieve. Also keep in mind that with the exception of a handful of slots, legs/sets are entirely BiS, and not by a small margin either.


With the current system in place, trading gear means less re-playability for you.

Blizzard doesn't want that.

They want you to earn your endgame gear. I know, still hard to grasp.


Atleast with Non BoA at endgame you would still have the option of finding and trading.

With BoA it is truly ENDGAME once you earn your gear there is no more options.
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No. Don't strawman.

I'm saying that 'free trade' in Diablo 2 caused an ugly mindset that encouraged scamming, exploiting and generally being a jerk. Still see far too many posts bragging about how someone ripped off/tricked someone.

It's very different to griefing since this gives the perpetrator a massive incentive to do so.


I'm using your logic based on a faulty premise and showing the problems with it.

People scam, abuse, and take advantage of people in many areas, not JUST trading. Your argument almost completely comes down to saying "We should get rid of trading because people can be scammed in trading". The logic simply does not make any amount of sense, and it shows when you apply it to other examples of people getting griefed.

If you want to make another argument against trading I'm for it, but that logic simply is silly. Apply it anywhere else and you'll see.


Yes. But Blizzard...say a lot of things and often not very clearly. Read between the lines and take a look at some of the datamined affixes.


I don't have any legs/sets to look at so I can't draw a complete conclusion.

I can however use what date we have now on how the legs/sets are working. Legs and sets, with the exception of ammies and BoA crafters (which are still new) almost completely dominated every slot in terms of quality. I don't see this changing. That means the best options will more than likely be Legs/Sets.
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Posts: 8,029


Gotta love the straws!

This is still possible even with BOA legendaries, thank you.

With the current system in place, trading gear means less re-playability for you.

Blizzard doesn't want that.

They want you to earn your endgame gear. I know, still hard to grasp.


Atleast with Non BoA at endgame you would still have the option of finding and trading.

With BoA it is truly ENDGAME once you earn your gear there is no more options.


Progression and difficulty will be rescaled.

With smarter rolls you'll find upgrades in more ways than one.

Remember that you can still trade magic and rare items. Even BOA legendaries with people in your game for a short amount of time

I'm using your logic based on a faulty premise and showing the problems with it.

People scam, abuse, and take advantage of people in many areas, not JUST trading. Your argument almost completely comes down to saying "We should get rid of trading because people can be scammed in trading". The logic simply does not make any amount of sense, and it shows when you apply it to other examples of people getting griefed.

If you want to make another argument against trading I'm for it, but that logic simply is silly. Apply it anywhere else and you'll see.


Man you'll say anything won't you?

This load of crap does nothing for your feeble argument.
Edited by familia#1746 on 11/16/2013 8:35 AM PST
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Posts: 10,698
I'm using your logic based on a faulty premise and showing the problems with it.

People scam, abuse, and take advantage of people in many areas, not JUST trading. Your argument almost completely comes down to saying "We should get rid of trading because people can be scammed in trading". The logic simply does not make any amount of sense, and it shows when you apply it to other examples of people getting griefed.

If you want to make another argument against trading I'm for it, but that logic simply is silly. Apply it anywhere else and you'll see.


You are comparing griefing for the sake of griefing to scamming, which is very very different. Scamming gives the perpetrator a *massive* advantage with zero risk, since Blizzard do not moderate these transactions.

I don't have any legs/sets to look at so I can't draw a complete conclusion.

I can however use what date we have now on how the legs/sets are working. Legs and sets, with the exception of ammies and BoA crafters (which are still new) almost completely dominated every slot in terms of quality. I don't see this changing. That means the best options will more than likely be Legs/Sets.


The best option - sure. But rares will still be an excellent option, and for a lot of people/builds possibly BIS. Again we don't know enough right now to say one way or the other.
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11/16/2013 08:21 AMPosted by End
Gotta love the straws!


faulty logic is faulty. It needs to be put in other situations to show why.


This is still possible even with BOA legendaries, thank you.


It's also far more possible without BoAs. In fact, BoAs literally do nothing in this context except make it harder for me to do so.

With the current system in place, trading gear means less re-playability for you.

Blizzard doesn't want that.

They want you to earn your endgame gear. I know, still hard to grasp.


Don't give me that. The game has no replayability because there's nothing to do except kill the same monsters the same way but for different reasons. If you honestly think that people being unable to trade and forced to find their own gear is going to make this game any more compelling then you are sadly mistaken.
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Atleast with Non BoA at endgame you would still have the option of finding and trading.

With BoA it is truly ENDGAME once you earn your gear there is no more options.


Progression and difficulty will be rescaled.

With smarter rolls you'll find upgrades in more ways than one.

Remember that you can still trade magic and rare items. Even BOA legendaries with people in your game for a short amount of time


I think they basically mean give away in a game... I mean wtf am I gonna trade it for the only thing really is gold / gems if they will still allow those to be traded and they are close to worthless anyways. I mean if it's for another item it would have had to be dropped in that game as well and I'm pretty sure the selection to choose from would not be a fair trade. simply horrible design.

Yeah I forgot about rares my bad, sorry to break it to you but people will only be using legendaries.
Edited by LazyNCrazy#1730 on 11/16/2013 8:40 AM PST
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You are comparing griefing for the sake of griefing to scamming, which is very very different. Scamming gives the perpetrator a *massive* advantage with zero risk, since Blizzard do not moderate these transactions.


This is true, but I really don't think that the entirety of trading should be removed entirely just for a handful of people who scam. Not everyone is scamming, not everyone is getting scammed. Push comes to shove, I'd bet most people wouldn't even consider intentionally scamming, and I'm sure most people aren't even aware if they are being scammed.

11/16/2013 08:36 AMPosted by Starbird
The best option - sure. But rares will still be an excellent option, and for a lot of people/builds possibly BIS. Again we don't know enough right now to say one way or the other.


That's highly suspect honestly.

Rares are only a good option now because you can trade for them amongst a massive playerbase and legs have virtually no guarantee of finding. Even with smart drops, rares will still be highly random with little control, the only difference is that you'll have your main stat on something thats crappy.
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Hey atleast if I'm in a game with 3 noobs and I find something just slightly less better than my BiS weapon I can hand it over for free in game. Oh wait isn't this against Blizzards philosophy of finding your own gear?
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i think all policy changes have positives and negatives. blizzard is never going to make everyone happy. i remember at the beginning of WoW, in an effort to eliminate bots all together, blizzard attempted to implement the elegant, if draconian, fix of a key-log equivalent to weed out and systematically ban bot accounts. it would have worked beautifully, but users railed against it for reasons of personal privacy. this is an extreme example, but exists on the same spectrum of decision making as BoA. there will be no perfect solution to the problems plaguing any MMO game.

i think starbird's original comment most probably gets at what the dev's are thinking: minimize bots and spam while maximizing the incentive to actually play the game. almost none of us actually enjoy trolling the auction house...same goes for using third party sites for gold or account trades. time spent doing these things amounts to little more than overhead. and though some 'serious' players may get off on this, the bulk of blizzards paying customers simply want to play the game and have a reasonable chance of reaching and enjoying the endgame without having to resort to various exploits.

of course, there are negatives to this decision. for example, my wife an i actively trade gear and money with one another. as several of you have alluded to, social trading like this has greatly increased our enjoyment of the game, having made it a bit more of team endeavor. that goes away with straight up BoA. a possible fix would be 'circles', kind of like cell phone companies used to do - a half dozen or so trusted friends that could swap otherwise BoA items. but that 'fix' would of course have exploits. in the end, its a balancing act.

personally, if BoA crushes bots and spam, i welcome it.
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Posts: 8,029
Yeah I forgot about rares my bad, sorry to break it to you but people will only be using legendaries.


Whatever you say, champ. Have fun farming them. ;)

It's also far more possible without BoAs. In fact, BoAs literally do nothing in this context except make it harder for me to do so.


Still think legendaries are the only means of diversity?

Or so they tell us! Just like they told us about PVP being here at release, er shortly after release, er coming soon, er no comment...

Simple fact is they screwed up with the money grab called the RMAH. Now they are flopping around and removing both AHes(typical knee-jerk over reaction by Blizz). BOA is just a side effect of Blizzard's clueless flailing about trying to make ROS another money grab. "hey look playa's, we removed the evil AH so all D3 problems are fixed, buy ROS the perfect game! Only $99.99, plus a soon to be recurring access fee of $14.95 per months! Opps, forget we mentioned the access fess until your paid for ROS!!


Yet you're still here complaining about it, I'd recommend getting your priorities straight.

Don't give me that. The game has no replayability because there's nothing to do except kill the same monsters the same way but for different reasons. If you honestly think that people being unable to trade and forced to find their own gear is going to make this game any more compelling then you are sadly mistaken.


Has no re-playability now, but RoS is looking to change that.

It already made the game more compelling for me and I think that's what Blizzard cares about most.

Entitled kids who demand access to endgame content will be forced to "play."
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It helps you, OP, by giving you the play experience where you reach end game not by just buying and trading the best items but actually finding them yourself. After the journey you can look back and take pride in what you did.

Or, to use an analogy, you could be playing a board game with your friends and they have normal dice but you have your own dice with all sides having a six spot. Yeah! I win again!
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11/16/2013 08:50 AMPosted by End
Entitled kids who demand access to endgame content will be forced to "play."


I think you honestly think this is offending me lol
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