Diablo® III

Why BoA will not stop RMT or BOTS.

Ok so I have seen a lot of arguments that one of the major reason BoA was implemented is to stop the Botters. I put some thought into this and arrived at the conclusion that this will simply not be true. I decided to break down how I was able to figure out work around for the things that people say will stop this activity.

Botters will no longer be able to sell items under the new system. This is not true. Botters will be able to still sell not only individual items but accounts as well. Detractors will say that blizz will identify these accounts and ban them. Here’s why that will not work:
I’ll cover the account selling first.
Accounts can change hands with relative ease. Email address can be included in with the sale. The contact information can be edited to reflect the purchaser’s information. IP address change alone is not necessarily and indication an account has been sold. Numerous legitimate reason for IP changes happen every day, you log in from friends/family house, You move to another area or state, You change cable providers. This also assumes that Blizzard is going to monitor each and every account that has a change in IP. This would not be feasible for someone to monitor constantly with the hundreds of thousands of players that could see varying changes over a given period of time.
People say that Blizzard will request documentation like driver’s license or other id to prove account ownership. This doesn’t consider that a large portion of the player base is made of minors or people under the age of 16. People under 16 generally don’t have a lot of identification. No driver’s license however they are perfectly capable of playing the game. Blizzard knows this too and they are going to have to some kind of evidence that you are not the original purchaser of the game, not something just as simple as IP change. Beside this again assumes that blizzard is going to be able to catch every transaction like this. The reality is that while they will probably catch some they probably won’t catch most of these things happening so they will still make it into the market. Especially if extrapolated over time, even if they catch 75% of these types of transfers 25% still get through and a steady stream of 25% of them getting through will still end up being in the game. You can fill a 10 gallon bucket with water one drop at a time. Sure it takes a little more time but it will still be full.
A good example of this is WOW. Accounts changed hands and still do all the time. If they weren’t able to do it with that product what is the evidence that they will be able to do it with Diablo.
People point to hours played will be an indicator or that no one would buy an account they won’t have paragon levels. Don’t you think that the Botters will adjust to this. They will sell accounts full of legendaries at different price points. They can sell at paragon 20,40, 60 , 100 and so on. They can vary the play time on the accounts to simulate how a real player would operate. They can run a group of 4 characters and funnel str items to a barb/crus, dex items to DH and Monk, and Int items to Wiz and WD. This can all be done with variable amounts of time played to disguise the account, making the account or character desirable.
Now ill cover how single item legendarys can be sold.

Botters again are not a static entity, they will adjust and modify their behavior to reach and end goal. So people point out that single item transfers will be stamped out with BoA. Here is how a workaround for this can be achieved.
Botters will be able to sell time to characters, you will pay X amount for 1 hour of legendaries being funneled into that character. Since the BoA trade window is open to players in game it would work like this. 3 botters run the game, every legendary drop is sent to the paying player. Blizz has already said that when a legendary drops it will be broadcast via party chat to the rest of the group. The paying customer will be able to see every legendary drop and they will get every one for a set price per hour. I think it was even suggested that they may be able to trade within clans.
Botters may sell you a month subscription to a gearing service. It would work like the above but you would pay on a per month bases. This may not even be done by botters but just by entrepreneuring individuals. People would be able to join a clan for a month. You would have free access to join with groups of individuals that will run the toughest and most lucrative (item wise) parts of the game. They could sell you an all out legendary service like above or just funnel the specific items that are for your class. Str-> barb/crus Dex->DH/Monk and Int-> WD/Wiz.
There is absolutely no way to monitor this on blizzards end. With millions of players in thousands of game it would stretch there monitoring capabilities to the max and they would have to employ so many monitors that they would lose money on the game with all the new salaries they would have to pay to the monitors they would have to hire.
I see the argument that people wont risk these type of things because they are afraid to get banned or the transactions will be too risky. Has this ever been a real deterrent to stop people from doing this? People don’t think they are going to get caught, they try something and a lot of times they get away with it. Many people don’t think about the consequences of their actions until AFTER they have been caught and many will simply not care. Site like D2JSP existed because they were successful and trustworthy. There will be a site that emerges that does the same thing. Someone will build a reputation for being trustworthy and people will come. Again this is just good brand marketing. If you provide a good service people will use. If they are good enough at it they may even provide assurances, guarantees or account replacement if accounts are banned. If someone can make $$$$ of it they will find a way to do it quickly and efficiently.
So BOTTERS will figure out how the system works and will adjust to it. If there is a way to make money and there is a demand, they will always have a market for what they do. The same principal applies to illegal drugs. They are illegal, there is border security to try to catch it coming in, and it does result in some being taken out of the system but it can never catch everything. People will always figure out ways to circumvent the ways and means to catch them. The real problem: there is a demand and a supply. As long as there is a demand, someone will find a way to supply what is wanted.
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I appologize for some the grammar spelling errors. Too long to edit everything.
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+1 Well said Badfish

ps: I understand the ah issue, even though I hate too loose the luxury of a quick find lol, but this whole boa/no trade thing is a really bad idea imho.....
Edited by Hitman#1258 on 11/15/2013 10:40 AM PST
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+1 Well said Badfish

ps: I understand the ah issue, even though I hate too loose the luxury of a quick find lol, but this whole boa/no trade thing is a really bad idea imho.....


Its the treating of the symtom and not the diesese. The thing is the disese is incurrable. They just swtiched from one medication to another, but they will not be able to stem the tide.
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11/15/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Badfish
The contact information can be edited to reflect the purchaser’s information.

Then you already gave Blizzard a way to identify the transaction.

In any case, the real "danger" of account selling is that the seller can at any point just call Blizzar, tell them he was hacked, and get the account back (or get it banned if they dont believe the seller).

Im sure selling accounts will happen, but people will gamble when they do it, so most people simply wont even consider ever doing it.

In the end no, you cant ever stop these things. You can make them a lot more inconvenient though.

That said, gameplay shouldn't really be designed around cheaters. Cheats should be fought through banning, no matter how hopeless a fight that is.
The reason for BoA is not/should not be botters, but rather how it affects/improves the gameplay itself.
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11/15/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Badfish
Accounts can change hands with relative ease.

Still brutally harder than switching items.

11/15/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Badfish
3 botters run the game, every legendary drop is sent to the paying player.

Yeah, but all those three bots are exposed when they invite a customer.
Do you really think that they'd go unreported for any length of time?

Having that sort of service is incredibly more risky than selling items.
And there's much fewer customers as well.
With the AH, we're all more or less customers.
Not to mention the attendance needed.. There's some work to be done there if the wheels are gonna turn smoothly.
I think it's unrealistic.
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Yea your probably right... :)

And I look forward to buying an account in the future. (no I'm not being sarcastic.)

Peace
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Ive seen other posts with some decent ideas (again imo). They shoot more along the lines of BOT (bind on trade) or BOE (bind on equip) that I still dont want, but makes a lot more sense to me too fix the problems that they are trying to fix. BOA to me is quite the extreme, and by no means meets the half way point of the fan base. Meet us in the middle and they will see a better reaction from us, not just take away, take away ect...
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94 Undead Warlock
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Posts: 17,741
Well nobody said it would kill the bots. However if the items are dropped in a good manner and the majority can gear properly the market for the botted items will be fairly small. The real $$ has always been the high end gear that was hard to find and in in D2 were duped. There will always be cheaters but the best Blizzard can do it mitigate the results. If loot 2.0 allows us to get the gear in a reasonable manner and it is itemizied why would we bother with going to a 3rd party site?

D2jsp was /is there because in D2 there was a market. It was backed up by dupes and cheats. Well good for them but we know they won't be selling any boa items. Every step Blizzard takes to secure the game is good. As for BoA thank d2jsp for the inspiration.
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Posts: 4,984
11/15/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Badfish
Accounts can change hands with relative ease. Email address can be included in with the sale. The contact information can be edited to reflect the purchaser’s information. IP address change alone is not necessarily and indication an account has been sold. Numerous legitimate reason for IP changes happen every day, you log in from friends/family house, You move to another area or state, You change cable providers. This also assumes that Blizzard is going to monitor each and every account that has a change in IP. This would not be feasible for someone to monitor constantly with the hundreds of thousands of players that could see varying changes over a given period of time.

Selling account is far, far, faaaaaaar more difficult than selling individual items. Buyer would have to want that paragon level, all the items, and be willing to spend money on EVERYTHING at once. This can't possibly include any reasonable amount of players. A few that are willing to pay for it won't be able to sustain all the bots.

Also, no matter how difficult, account selling can be tracked via behavior differences. 24/7 botting followed by IP AND state change, followed by more casual playing CAN be grounds for banning. So the risk is still there, and some accounts will be banned.

People say that Blizzard will request documentation like driver’s license or other id to prove account ownership. This doesn’t consider that a large portion of the player base is made of minors or people under the age of 16. People under 16 generally don’t have a lot of identification.

Last time I checked, this game isn't rated to be owned by minors.

People point to hours played will be an indicator or that no one would buy an account they won’t have paragon levels. Don’t you think that the Botters will adjust to this. They will sell accounts full of legendaries at different price points. They can sell at paragon 20,40, 60 , 100 and so on. They can vary the play time on the accounts to simulate how a real player would operate. They can run a group of 4 characters and funnel str items to a barb/crus, dex items to DH and Monk, and Int items to Wiz and WD. This can all be done with variable amounts of time played to disguise the account, making the account or character desirable.

Where's all this demand coming from? Are you willing to buy a whole account with a risk to be banned? Perhaps your friends?

So BOTTERS will figure out how the system works and will adjust to it. If there is a way to make money and there is a demand, they will always have a market for what they do. The same principal applies to illegal drugs. They are illegal, there is border security to try to catch it coming in, and it does result in some being taken out of the system but it can never catch everything. People will always figure out ways to circumvent the ways and means to catch them. The real problem: there is a demand and a supply. As long as there is a demand, someone will find a way to supply what is wanted.

Here's what I think: IF the botters adapt, and IF there's still demand, and IF the botters aren't diminished by the upcoming changes, THEN the next steps can be taken. My personal opinion is that these changes will help a lot.
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11/15/2013 10:52 AMPosted by Bombus
Accounts can change hands with relative ease.

Still brutally harder than switching items.

3 botters run the game, every legendary drop is sent to the paying player.

Yeah, but all those three bots are exposed when they invite a customer.
Do you really think that they'd go unreported for any length of time?

Having that sort of service is incredibly more risky than selling items.
And there's much fewer customers as well.
With the AH, we're all more or less customers.
Not to mention the attendance needed.. There's some work to be done there if the wheels are gonna turn smoothly.
I think it's unrealistic.


Very true, but we all know how reporting goes.....nothing happens. I mean they have had blatant proof (twitch videos) of people breaking the rules and nothing has been done. So how is BOA the fix? Harder maybe.......stoppable, Not so much....
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11/15/2013 10:52 AMPosted by Bombus
Accounts can change hands with relative ease.

Still brutally harder than switching items.

3 botters run the game, every legendary drop is sent to the paying player.

Yeah, but all those three bots are exposed when they invite a customer.
Do you really think that they'd go unreported for any length of time?

Having that sort of service is incredibly more risky than selling items.
And there's much fewer customers as well.
With the AH, we're all more or less customers.
Not to mention the attendance needed.. There's some work to be done there if the wheels are gonna turn smoothly.
I think it's unrealistic.

This kind of service would kick a$$. This is what they can do when item trading is no longer possible, it can be item finding service.
New ideas are always welcome. Why would you report then, if you like the service? You pay for it.

My fun will not suffer if 3 "players" are doing speed kill and binging me all the loot they find.
Gear you need = fun = killing demons.
Edited by Shark#1999 on 11/15/2013 11:18 AM PST
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11/15/2013 11:00 AMPosted by AOHNH
Accounts can change hands with relative ease. Email address can be included in with the sale. The contact information can be edited to reflect the purchaser’s information. IP address change alone is not necessarily and indication an account has been sold. Numerous legitimate reason for IP changes happen every day, you log in from friends/family house, You move to another area or state, You change cable providers. This also assumes that Blizzard is going to monitor each and every account that has a change in IP. This would not be feasible for someone to monitor constantly with the hundreds of thousands of players that could see varying changes over a given period of time.

Selling account is far, far, faaaaaaar more difficult than selling individual items. Buyer would have to want that paragon level, all the items, and be willing to spend money on EVERYTHING at once. This can't possibly include any reasonable amount of players. A few that are willing to pay for it won't be able to sustain all the bots.

Also, no matter how difficult, account selling can be tracked via behavior differences. 24/7 botting followed by IP AND state change, followed by more casual playing CAN be grounds for banning. So the risk is still there, and some accounts will be banned.

People say that Blizzard will request documentation like driver’s license or other id to prove account ownership. This doesn’t consider that a large portion of the player base is made of minors or people under the age of 16. People under 16 generally don’t have a lot of identification.

Last time I checked, this game isn't rated to be owned by minors.

People point to hours played will be an indicator or that no one would buy an account they won’t have paragon levels. Don’t you think that the Botters will adjust to this. They will sell accounts full of legendaries at different price points. They can sell at paragon 20,40, 60 , 100 and so on. They can vary the play time on the accounts to simulate how a real player would operate. They can run a group of 4 characters and funnel str items to a barb/crus, dex items to DH and Monk, and Int items to Wiz and WD. This can all be done with variable amounts of time played to disguise the account, making the account or character desirable.

Where's all this demand coming from? Are you willing to buy a whole account with a risk to be banned? Perhaps your friends?

So BOTTERS will figure out how the system works and will adjust to it. If there is a way to make money and there is a demand, they will always have a market for what they do. The same principal applies to illegal drugs. They are illegal, there is border security to try to catch it coming in, and it does result in some being taken out of the system but it can never catch everything. People will always figure out ways to circumvent the ways and means to catch them. The real problem: there is a demand and a supply. As long as there is a demand, someone will find a way to supply what is wanted.

Here's what I think: IF the botters adapt, and IF there's still demand, and IF the botters aren't diminished by the upcoming changes, THEN the next steps can be taken. My personal opinion is that these changes will help a lot.


I think you are underestimating the amount of people that would do this. It happened in D2 why would it not happen in D3. Thats how sites like D2JSP exist. People will do what ever they think they can get away with. I agree account selling is more difficult than single item transaction, but i think you are giving Blizz too much credit for how much they are actually policing this on a day to day basis, ive seen tons of duped items on the AH, where you have 5 of the same item selling for the same price, so clearly they arent that good at catching this stuff. Especially if the BOTers take precaustions to limit there exposure to being seen as a bot account.
On a side note, when has the "M" rating ever been a deterent for a minor getting a video game? Thats a bit rediculous.
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11/15/2013 11:06 AMPosted by Shark
Why would you report then, if you like the service? You pay for it.

Someone will, that's how it goes.
And that's why it's risky.

I doubt botrunning would become a popular choice. But I dunno, maybe.
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Here's the thing too. This is just what I could think off in what the last 5 days since it was announced. What will they come up with when they have months and months to figure out other ways to circumvent the system.
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BoA are and no ah will give harder time to trading for the time being. The only way to completely destroy the real money trading is one and only, make the game fully offline, export battlenet profile feature into save games, no server, no maintenance cost anymore, sell well-priced expansions for a full profit.

Won't happen now, but who knows looking at the courage of certain changes, everything is possible perhaps in a second or third expansion.
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11/15/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Badfish
Here's the thing too. This is just what I could think off in what the last 5 days since it was announced. What will they come up with when they have months and months to figure out other ways to circumvent the system.

How about hacking the server?

I dunno man, I think this sort of procedure will be risky and complicated.
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11/15/2013 11:17 AMPosted by Bombus
Why would you report then, if you like the service? You pay for it.

Someone will, that's how it goes.
And that's why it's risky.

I doubt botrunning would become a popular choice. But I dunno, maybe.

If the price for 1 run is $5 - $10, 10 runs is $50 - $100 and 100 will be $500 - $1000. That is a lot. Damn, it's a lot more than selling items now.
It all comes together, how many runs can they do until someone reports them and ban them.

A lot of players would need this service because they don't have time to play 12 hours per day, like me.
At the moment, trading is the only way to complete set or get this legendary weapon I need.

Unless Loot 2.0 and Smart Drops comes with Oracle (who can "read your mind" and see what you need) and give these items in reasonable amount of time then I don't see any other solution.

BoA is only good for players who has time to play, a lot of free time.
If you have a family, friends and work, there will be little time to play and I want this little time to have as much fun as everyone else.

BoA is no good for casual players.
Long time ago, when Diablo 2 (with xpack) come out, I played it days and night, it was fun and I had time.
Edited by Shark#1999 on 11/15/2013 11:36 AM PST
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