Diablo® III

*5* Things The Anti BOA Crowd Don't Seem To Realize:

A good, informative thread.

Point #5 - I would like to point out that trading is not required at all (but only) if a person's goal is not just to play MP10. If a person is playing to have fun and can invest the time and have the willpower to be patient, he could easily play the low level MPs without buying or trading a single item.


True, but they wouldn't be rewarded much and probally lose interest.
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Then get ready for the end of Diablo, because BOA is NOT Diablo and never will be. ROS will fail worse than anyone can imagine if BOA legendaries goes live. The majority of the current players left and pretty much everyone considering playing ROS will not play with BOA legendaries. BOA is just one more reason to completely give up on Diablo 3. Blizzard might as well kiss all their credentials goodbye with such a blunder. Oh well, at least they still have Starcraft.


The players that will quit, will be the same players that have been complaining about D3 since it came out. The other players that actually love D3 despite a few minor flaws will stay. This player base is actually happy and excited for RoS to come.
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looking at polls online my opinion is the majority opinion. 50-70% of all players do not want any more BOA added to the game.

barely 20% of players want BOA legendaries according to most polls.

the remaining 10-30% of players are split between other things like BoE, BoT, or keeping the AH and having BoT, BoE, BoP or something even less popular.

I know this type of info is not proof of anything, but the general consensus is that more BOA will not be popular among the majority of players. It is fairly obvious that more BOA will not translate into something positive for ROS.


Pool only really matters when they bolster your argument. They are invalid when they don't.
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good to know, unfortunately the vast majority of players have been complaining about D3 from the start, and only the few or the most casual players who have no interest in using any Diablo forum or who do not care about the game enough to think deeply about any aspect about it do not have complaints. If most players were unhappy and quit, then the future changes regarding BOA will just make things even worse for most players. More players will leave than will return looking at the numbers. I guess that would be fine by you, since it means there will be fewer dedicated players for you to have to measure up to.


Polls don't count for anything because most of the players do not participate in them. Same goes for the forums. Most players don't even know about the forums and don't bother posting. Just because some people don't live on the forums does not mean they don't care about the game. For example, after BoA is set in stone, I won't be posting that much anymore. This is the only issue i care about. The rest i am indifferent about.
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1) Not everything will be BoA.

2) Rares will still be good.

3) You can still trade with your friends in the same game.

4) Account selling and botting won't become *that* widely spread.

5) Trading does affect others.


just to go down your list...
1: everything good will be boa. rares that have exceptional stat rolls are also going to be boa, not just legendaries. crafted items with really good rolls? boa. items you put through an enchanter so as to make them viable? boa. if it's something some one some where would consider worth looking at, it is boa. which means it's worthless to everyone if it isn't an upgrade for your specific party at the time of looting.

2: "good" and "good enough to swap out current gear for" are two drastically different things. with boa, the only reason to give a flying **** about "good" gear is if it's better than what we have. if it's on par, it's worthless, due to boa, not even worth picking up in the first place. it is, in essence, an absolute waste of everyones time, since we are being denied the ability to trade/give away, said "good' item.

3: that's great! oh, wait, no, no it's not. 4 players per game, max. oh look, this really cool witch doctor item dropped. but my only friend who plays a witch doctor isn't in this particular game, sucks to be him, see #2, again.

4: no one will ever buy/sell entire accounts purely because of gear. get this through your head already. they will buy it because WW barbs will get nerfed to oblivion and witch doctors will get a massive buff, and rather than waste days leveling a new character up, you can just buy it and jump right into having fun again. that is why accounts are bought/sold in games like diablo. the specific characters gear is just a bonus to playing something that isn't gimped.

(disclaimer: the choice of barb/witch doctor is entirely my own, there is no currently announced nerf/buff for either class at this point in time.)

5: you use pvp as an example, and with the way this game is set up.. it's a pathetic example.

how would you know if the other player traded/bought his gear, compared to you? how will they know if you did or didn't do the same? on that matter, who's to say whether or not you stomp someone in pvp, and they report you for buying/botting the account in order to get the gear needed to beat them? it affects a very small portion of the game, one that at present, does not even exist yet in a realistic fashion, and, more importantly, offers absolutely no reward for your participation anyway. and if previous implementations of various blizzard games have taught us anything... it will not provide any sort of reward remotely related to the core focus of the game itself, anyway, no matter what.
Edited by Cypheon#1720 on 11/16/2013 9:05 PM PST
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1) Not everything will be BoA.

Unmodified rares and the like will still be freely trade-able from what we know.


So basically once I reach pinnacle of gearing, all there will be left to do is farm for good rares?

2) Rares will still be good.

While legendaries and sets will generally be better, from what we've seen from datamining there will likely be some awesome rares too, and more than likely a near perfect rare could end up being near BiS. Again, we know nothing for sure yet, but this seems to be a reasonable assumption at this point.


Ok so once I find an "Awesome Rare" what am supposed to trade it for?

3) You can still trade with your friends in the same game.

If an item drops in a game with a friend, you can trade it and help them out if they need it.


You do realize this is obsurd. If it is a friend what if they are not available? Or you are playing in a public game you can only trade for items that they have found within the past 2 hour window.

4) Account selling and botting won't become *that* widely spread.

At least nowhere near the extent that item selling is now. Sure, you will always have an extreme minority who will spend ages bypassing the system to do this, but there are a *lot* of safeguards to prevent account trading, and doing it runs a massive risk of getting ripped off.

Botting is another issue entirely. But one of the major reasons that botters are so common is due to how easy it is to sell gold and gear. If that stuff was all BoA, not only would there be less incentive to do it, there would also be a *lot* more risk.


I agree this will decrease botting, but who cares about bots? Why should the legit majority of the players have to suffer because blizzard fails to provide an adequate defence against botters. You are also forgetting that the AH helped facilitate botting and trading / selling by a huge margine, without the AH and Loot 2.0 in place that won't be a problem.

5) Trading does affect others.

Far too many people seem to think that if unrestricted trading is allowed with loot drops balanced around self found, that people can just choose to opt out of it.

Thing is, as I've said in another thread...probably the most common 'goal' in D3 is to have a Powerful Character. And in games like this, power is relative. Trading will give a massive advantage, and thus for anyone wanting to play the game 'right'...there would be a serious incentive to trade.

And that's without PvP. Once PvP enters the arena (hah) then an entirely new can of worms is opened.

So yeah...I'm fine with BoA. I'm also fine with BoE or BoT. But overall I do feel that the quasi-BoA we seem to be getting now is going to be best for the game.


The problem with this is once you reach that Powerful Character there will be nothing left to do unlike if there was no BoA you could atleast trade the good items you find. PvP would actually be ok with BoA but the problem is you'd have to wait and may never get the spec you want since you have to rely entirely on RNG to get it.
Edited by LazyNCrazy#1730 on 11/16/2013 9:25 PM PST
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I'm pretty sure once you get uber geared you'll just start salvaging everything and keep mystic rerolling the random stats on all your gear to get the max rolls on everything. That alone will keep people busy for a while.
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11/16/2013 10:12 PMPosted by Amiar
I'm pretty sure once you get uber geared you'll just start salvaging everything and keep mystic rerolling the random stats on all your gear to get the max rolls on everything. That alone will keep people busy for a while.

This, the mystic basically ensures you never stop progressing.
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11/16/2013 09:05 PMPosted by LazyNCrazy
So basically once I reach pinnacle of gearing, all there will be left to do is farm for good rares?

This drives me nuts, wtf seriously else are you going to do anyhow? This is an argument made out of pure greed. If you have all BIS items you're saying you just want to sell them to make profit anyhow.
This isn't supposed to be a game based on profit. If you already have ALL BIS gear and have finished everything, stop playing. Make an alt with some of the great gear you've found that's boa and they can use.
Would you rather have nothing to do in a year or so with all BIS items or have nothing to do in a couple weeks with all BIS because you bought and traded for it all? Look where we are now because of buyers and flippers. Everyone is bored stupid because there is nothing left to do but wait. Do you really want to be in the exact same position a week or so after xpac launch?
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This drives me nuts, wtf seriously else are you going to do anyhow? This is an argument made out of pure greed. If you have all BIS items you're saying you just want to sell them to make profit anyhow.


This isn't WoW where the end game goal is to achieve the best gear, it's about the loot hunt.

11/16/2013 10:23 PMPosted by Angst
This isn't supposed to be a game based on profit. If you already have ALL BIS gear and have finished everything, stop playing. Make an alt with some of the great gear you've found that's boa and they can use.


You must work for Blizzard since you're trying to tell me how to play.

11/16/2013 10:23 PMPosted by Angst
Would you rather have nothing to do in a year or so with all BIS items or have nothing to do in a couple weeks with all BIS because you bought and traded for it all?


Who says I'm going to buy or trade anything? It's about having options. Again how does this effect you?

11/16/2013 10:23 PMPosted by Angst
Look where we are now because of buyers and flippers. Everyone is bored stupid because there is nothing left to do but wait. Do you really want to be in the exact same position a week or so after xpac launch?


That is why they are removing the AH and implementing Loot 2.0 BoA doesn't solve that problem.
The funny thing is you will be in the same position as now except instead of not finding anything, you will keep finding good stuff but the irony is you will have to discard it.
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Reliable option for not trading?
Something we call self control! People just really need to learn about it. Pride in knowing you played how you wanted to play and achieving your goal is all that matters. People need to learn self respect and stop bowing to peer pressure.



You aren't quite understanding.

The game simply vastly rewards trading vs not trading. Thats a bad system because people who don't trade more than likely feel like they are DRASTICALLY gimping themselves. Trading will always be better, bu the goal is to reduce that gap so far that people can shrug off not trading.


A good system for traders?
We had a system, the GAH. With minor fixes it could have been a good system. Blizzards reason for removing the GAH is nothing but a hollow bait-n-switch tactic to sell ROS copies.


First thats not what baiting and switching is. I get really tired of people not understanding this term and using it incorrectly.

Secondly, I agree that the GAH was nice, but you are missing the main point of what I am saying. I'm stating that people shouldn't feel like trading isn't the only option. This is entirely unrelated to the GAH. People should feel like trading is a good option, but not the substantially best option. Whether the methods of trade are the GAH or not does not hold much baring on this particular aspect.

11/16/2013 10:23 AMPosted by Nekar
Balance should be closer if Loot 2.0 actually works as they are ADVERTISING it. Self founders can't compete because loot currently sucks and is random. Traders are going to be screwed because Blizzard would rather save money not fixing the GAH, with the side benefit they can blame ALL problems on the (now) 'EVIL' AH, and get clueless players to buy ROS because it is gone...


I 100% agree. The best alternative in my mind is to get loot 2.0 WITH at least some form of trading
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No worries. I've never asked people to think the same way as me...only to think :)

Some of my favourite posters I don't agree with 100% of the time. If I did it would be really, really boring.


:p agreed. makes discussion very fun and eye opening, especially when we can converse with someone who can keep their cool, such as yourself.


But then you may as well make everything free trade since you can just add someone to your friends and remove them after.


Well frankly this is where I think the whole unbinding thing starts to fall apart. At best all you can do is restrict how often people can freely trade something, which is outright lousy, people will only trade the most expensive items at fat premiums.

But I digress.

Being able to trade in game absolutely provides very little benefit in terms of being able to trade good gear for other good gear. Simply put, the only time this could work is if you HAPPEN to be in a game with someone, and a legendary drops for you that you do not want but is good for them, and a legendary drops for them that they do not want that is good for you. Keep in mind that legs are tailored to specific classes, so unless they happen to be the same class, the odds are slim. This just realistically does not provide real good trading network for any BoA item.

You could always give them to your friends if you play with your friends, but really thats all this is amounting to. Giving away gear that you cannot use.

Well, until we know more about the loot system this one is going to be a matter of opinion.


True

Which is as I've said before a perfect chance for them to give us Ladder. Make Ladder BoA and Open either BoE or free trade.

Everyone is happy.


Why would you make ladder BoA and open Free trade? Ladder is going to reset every 6 months which is a guaranteed econ wipe. Open is going to have a massive item accumulation with no sink. If BoA needs to be in any of them its open, and if anything needs free trade, its Ladder
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Reliable option for not trading?
Something we call self control! People just really need to learn about it. Pride in knowing you played how you wanted to play and achieving your goal is all that matters. People need to learn self respect and stop bowing to peer pressure.



You aren't quite understanding.

Well, for me he understands perfectly. I have chosen NOT to use AH (very rarely some minor updates from GAH), and I still have fun. I can't faceroll MNP10, but I have no problems that other can.
Game now has no BoA, and I play SF most ot the time, and still have fun.Strange, huh?
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11/16/2013 08:26 PMPosted by Nekar
because BOA is NOT Diablo and never will be

Can I have all of your top tier crafted items and your hellfire rings? What?!?! They are BOA? But didn't you just say BOA isn't D3? Oh you were talking about earlier version of Diablo! Guess they made IMPROVEMENTS in the last thirteen years...

This IS NOT Diablo. Stop dreaming about the far past and live in the NOW.


Oh burn! I agree lol
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I wouldn't put it past the Dev team, to introduce BOA, which makes all the people who like this idea buy the expansion. Then, 5-6 month's later, they will announce, that it may be to restrictive, so they are introducing Bind on Trade once, which would reel in some more buyers. And if that are not enough, they'll loosen up some more, eventually, perhaps even introducing different play-modes, so they can meet the sales number, they are aiming for. The big seller will be the PvP as it was meant to be (i.e. as advertised with arena combat!)

If anything, Blizz nowadays, have proven that cold sales numbers are priority number 1. Everything else, is up for debate and haggle, as long as ´number one reason is met. Ubisoft, EA and Valve follow this model as well. They are companies, and they have to earn money, I get that. Doesn't mean, I condone the way, they go about it.

People with short attention spans are gold for these companies. They don't mind shelling out for a minor fix, and then the next, and next, and next. Longevity is not important for games anymore, unless there is a sub on it, or the game is produced by a indie company.

So take your BOA, and I hope you choke on it, until Blizz sees fit, for you to have your next fix, ofc only for the small price of 40-60 bucks.

They have had 2 years of constant critic. 2 Years to think something up, and all they could find, was BOA? All the game core issues still stands as it is, and BOA will not remedy this.
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Who gives a damn, why is everyone such a carebear now? Diablo is supposed to be about being a badass, not a sissy concerned with everyone elses feelings of inadequacy because they have bad gear and are unable to adapt. BOA is a limitation, as a gamer I do not want limitations. Let me decide what I need to do to build what I like. If that hurts someones feelings it's on them for not measuring up or being soft. Trading does not affect those you are not trading with, unless they have a personal problem which is their own business. Some people need to grow up and quit making excuses for their lack of effort or lack of ability. If you are unwilling to do what others are willing to do to succeed, you deserve to get less than them or just plain fail, and that applies to anything and everything.

Preventing some players from doing what they are capable of doing, just because some others are unwilling to is simply a childish and pathetic excuse for adding BOA to limit trade. Once again, self-found players want to impose upon everyone else their beliefs, and limit other's ability just so they can measure up. Just because you are unwilling to do something, does not mean other people should be brought down to your level. Players have the right to decide what is best for them, and if you are unwilling to adapt, then you need to learn to live with it and suffer the consequences, rather than crying about your inadequacy until you ruin things for everyone else. Trading is a core element of Diablo, it is and always has been, BOA is NOT an element that belongs in Diablo in any way for any reason. If you support BOA, you do not deserve to call yourself a Diablo player, and you certainly are not a true fan of the franchise.


Welp we will have to agree to disagree.

Personally I'm ambivalent, so long as Ladder remains primarily BoA.

But if I had to say what would be in the best interests of the game overall - trade does need some restrictions.
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