Diablo® III

Blizzard, please remove sheet damage and even toughness

I agree that more info would be better, aka, adding damage info on a skill by skill basis, but I still think paper dps is useful. Particularly since they don't actually have any feature to display skill damage. Yes paper dps is misleading, but it isn't all that hard to look for %ele dmg on gear to get a half decent estimate of what someone's actual dps could be (assuming a half decent skill build).

Toughness is pretty misleading on armory because there are so many buffs towards it that without showing such buffs it is pretty meaningless (a little annoying to have OWE effects not show up in my armory toughness, but not really a big deal since I don't rely on armory in any way). I do wish armory would just show the effects of paragon points. I definitely think there is room for improvement, but removing paper dps and toughness doesn't seem like an answer to me.
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04/17/2014 08:04 AMPosted by Imperius
Lulz. Yeah he had 350K dps but 1000% elemental damage right? Cause that's about what he would need to be doing T3


Your very unskilled if 350K and 1000% elemental damage is what you need for t3.
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It's still useful if you are familiar with this game.

I can see why it confuses people who have not taken the time to learn what those values actually mean.

Learn what those values mean and it's still pretty useful.

Take about 10 seconds to mouse over someones gear and you should be able to get a good idea of what their effective dps and survival is compared to the sheet values.

But it takes a learning curve of minutes, maybe even dozens of minutes. i can see why that would be frustrating to some people.
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04/17/2014 08:55 AMPosted by Polantaris
I've heard of this argument over and over and you people don't even use your brain to think for a second why the argument is invalid.

THE GAME KNOWS HOW MUCH DAMAGE YOU DO EVERY TIME YOU CLICK ON A SKILL TO ATTACK A MOB. THE FORMULA IS ALREADY IN GAME. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF DISPLAYING IT IN THE RIGHT PLACE.

IF NO SINGLE DPS IS VALID DUE TO ALL THE ELEMENTAL DAMAGE BUFF ETC, THEN WHY CAN'T THEY DISPLAY INDIVIDUAL SKILL DAMAGE ON THE SKILL ICON?

Think about that for a second.Games know how much damage you do to mobs already, there's no need to develop anything new.

The fact that Blizzard adds new item attributes but didn't bother to incorporate them into older formula, or change how damage is displayed is pure laziness. Nothing more.


What you fail to understand is that the damage you do is immediately done with the formula because things are set.

If I have an item that gives +20% Cold, then another that gives +50% Thunder, then a third that gives +60% Arcane, how can this one, single formula, know WITHOUT A DOUBT, which number to use? It's impossible.

When I cast an Arcane Spell, it can do the formula then because it KNOWS the spell is Arcane, but when it's put on a sheet that just flat out goes, "You do X damage" with no circumstances at all, there's NO POSSIBLE WAY to know your attacks will be Arcane, or will they be Thunder? Or maybe Cold? Maybe it's Fire? What about Physical?

I'm going to put it in very simple terms you failed to understand.

A formula uses variables.
These variables change from ability to ability.
These variables cannot be known ahead of time.
Therefore, a straight formula that does not know these variables cannot be calculated.

This is why the single, rough DPS calculation that's done is useless. There's so many factors that cannot be taken into account in one single formula when the variables are not pre-defined.


Even if a single formula is useless there's nothing stoppping them, like I said, to display individual skill damage. Again it's due to pure laziness.
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04/17/2014 09:06 AMPosted by Enolate
Even if a single formula is useless there's nothing stoppping them, like I said, to display individual skill damage. Again it's due to pure laziness.


Yes, they can. That would mean getting rid of the Sheet DPS, which is what this thread is about.
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04/17/2014 08:37 AMPosted by Enolate
Again a thread advocating "remove" instead of "fix it".

Seriously, if sheet dps calculation isn't correct, you should demand they incorporate new item attribute so they are correct. Not yelling for its removal.

You people need to learn how to properly solving a problem.


Removing it is far easier....and blizzard likes easy solutions...
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There's no reason to remove it just because the general population is stupid about it.

It's a useless tool for advanced players, but for newer players it's quite useful. No reason to scrap it.
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Sheet damage is a base damage amount. All modifiers work off of this number. If you are sitting at 350k damage, that means your crit, IAS, CrD, main stat, etc., are all very low. Adding in a bonus damage to a smaller base damage is not going to be as effective as adding in to a larger base amount.

In short, base damage of less than 400k is really not effective regardless of your bonus damage unless you are running a crazy gimmick build. After you get really over that hump, then your characters base effectiveness is much more valuable as a whole. Your bonuses start to scale stronger and become more potent.
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04/17/2014 09:15 AMPosted by Deuce
stronger and become more potent.


Stronger, more potent, and ALSO more powerful, but don't forget more effective and packing a bigger punch
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You guys are too funny. My sheet dps is too low. Someone might make fun of me. Blizzard remove it now! I don't care if some people find it useful or it can be a way to weed out leeches (of which there are a ton in public games). My feelings may get hurt so I need it gone! I hope the OP isn't older then 20 or it just goes from sad to pitiful.
Edited by DJINN#1228 on 4/17/2014 9:39 AM PDT
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You are correct TC. I agree with you.

BUT the real issue, that we will never be able to solve is human behavior.

Humans are visual in their estimations. They see large #'s or large objects and make assumptions about them based on their appearance in size, or other forms of appearance. Of course many people of intelligence can look past these superficial observations, but many of our kind will forever be deceived by them, forcing the rest of us to just deal with the inadequacies of human nature.

It's a shame the developers can't at least make the #'s represent anything of real value in terms of game play with our characters.
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04/17/2014 08:00 AMPosted by JackieTran
TL;DR: Either remake sheet damage or remove it. What's the point of a measurement if it gives you wrong information?


The DPS, Toughness, and Healing stats are all meant to be general, quick evaluations of your character's power. While you will have a better grasp of exactly what your character is capable of by more closely analyzing your individual stats, these overviews are there to provide this information at a short glance. Similar to the green or red Damage/Toughness/Healing estimations that show up when evaluating a new piece of gear, scrutinizing the details will give you the information needed to make those more precise gearing decisions.

For players that wish to focus a little less on min-maxing, though, those stats are there to provide a sort of surface check. We're certainly open to feedback on how we can improve on these stats, and as indicated in our Patch Notes, we are keeping an eye on the stats that weigh into this to make sure they're properly indicative of the amount of benefit they provide.

Bear in mind that some stats are much more tricky to incorporate into this kind of system, with bonus damage versus Elites and bonus Skill damage being good examples. Stats with an orange diamond adjacent to them are not calculated into DPS, Toughness, or Healing, and should be independently considered from these overviews as a result.
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We need to start using gear score.
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I have a sad feeling that sheet DPS is going to become like DPS in World of Warcraft, where little billy the night elf rogue would make forum post after forum post arguing that his 20k DPS would somehow be acceptable for siege of orgrimmar raid finder.
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+1 op
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04/17/2014 10:23 AMPosted by pronebar
20k DPS would somehow be acceptable for siege of orgrimmar raid finder.


Off topic but that is plenty for raid finder.
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04/17/2014 08:14 AMPosted by KhalARon
No, not /thread, you missed the point.


I think you did.... Players with 800 dps are doing that extra damage too, and they still don't want you because they are still out doing yours and you slow the party down.
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04/17/2014 10:24 AMPosted by Suedomsa
Off topic but that is plenty for raid finder.


20k is not enough for SoO Raid finder lol, try go trough a raid where the majority have 20k dps xD
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04/17/2014 10:20 AMPosted by Nevalistis
The DPS, Toughness, and Healing stats are all meant to be general, quick evaluations of your character's power.


But they aren't.... just saying.
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04/17/2014 10:25 AMPosted by GenghisKhan
I think you did.... Players with 800 dps are doing that extra damage too, and they still don't want you because they are still out doing yours and you slow the party down.


The party doesn't need to go fast, some people should be doing more work.
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