Diablo® III

[outdated] 2.1.0 Exploding Palm remains.

100 Human Rogue
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I guess Blizzard d3 dev team doesn't see the issue that is Exploding Palm, and how you've been forced to balance monks around this ability, just change it already... its been nothing but a hindrance to the Monk.

As long as Blizzard assumes you will use exploding palm in your build, Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to an EP build..

Remove it... give monks a better spender.
Edited by Starbuck#1587 on 9/17/2014 6:11 AM PDT
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Many will agree.

I would go first buff current spenders/change their runes. (reduce cost/inc dmg)

Buff spirit regen passives.

Buff spirit regen/speed on generators.

And just lastly remove EP or change its mechanics :)
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06/28/2014 09:43 AMPosted by Starbûck
I guess Blizzard d3 dev team doesn't see the issue that is Exploding Palm, and how you've been forced to balance monks around this ability, just change it already... its been nothing but a hindrance to the Monk.

As long as Blizzard assumes you will use exploding palm in your build, Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to an EP build..

Remove it... give monks a better spender.


Counterpoint..

As long as mirrorball remains, "Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to a mm/conflag build."

As long as sentries and M6 remain, "Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to a sentry build."

There are a few top builds for every class. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. As it stands, our current top builds perform well on the PTR.
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^ Bodoka. let's see how everything works first after "fixing" all you said before doing drastic changes to EP. Who cares if we are op in ptr right? Make it op then cut back from there this time?
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Omg another one dariidar. Problem is our competitive build in the "current" form of Grift is a gimmick and wont work later if they do fix the exploit (tp town furnace etc). So tired repeating this over and over and over again. Extremely Situational Build should not BE the end game Build! It's called gimmicks.
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06/28/2014 09:55 AMPosted by Flimsy
^ Bodoka. let's see how everything works first after "fixing" all you said before doing drastic changes to EP. Who cares if we are op in ptr right? Make it op then cut back from there this time?


There is nothing to see. The game is math.
By knowing the relevant numbers you do not need to see it in action to judge it :)

Naturally new leg affixes, new changes in future can affect lots of things.

I do not think if EP will be changed, it will be for the greater good of monk community, but solely to stop others complaining about it every day.

OWE- Harmony change so much greater good - whatever you do, your defense is nerfed, even if you manage to get a perfect rolled specific Fire resi Hellfire amulet or poison resi SOJ :)
Edited by Bodoka#2341 on 6/28/2014 10:17 AM PDT
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06/28/2014 09:43 AMPosted by Starbûck
Remove it


Agreed.
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I think the Math helps with setting a base for how something can work.

But there are many factors that simple maths on how one thing works doesn't account for the whole experience. For example,

Resource Regen <-> Spenders <-> Play Style (kite/melee) <-> Skills/Item Synergies <-> Player Skills, all those interactions cannot easily be quantified.

A class that can fight efficiently (meaning good interactions above) doesn't need to be the toughest class on paper to be the toughest class in reality - especially if they can have the option to kite and stil dealing decent damage (monk needs to stand and fight, DS? oh please no, clunky.) So on top of being the stand and fight type (generally speaking), our paper toughness is also not superior to other classes with the option to kite and fight efficiently (oh don't forget they can still generate Resource while kiting, part of the interaction chain above).
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06/28/2014 10:06 AMPosted by Kithsander
06/28/2014 09:43 AMPosted by Starbûck
Remove it


Agreed.


Do not say such nonsense. Do you want EP removed and get an ability like current EP with Essence burn?

Because around that's how good Harmony is compared to OWE which got removed.

Better ask for new abilities or buffs 1st, than making monk totally nonviable to play.

Check patch notes and remember/realize that noone at Blizzard is actually playing the class.

I think there is a reason why there is no Suggestions section in forums. They do not care what people suggest :D
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I think the Math helps with setting a base for how something can work.

But there are many factors that simple maths on how one thing works doesn't account for the whole experience. For example,

Resource Regen <-> Spenders <-> Play Style (kite/melee) <-> Skills/Item Synergies <-> Player Skills, all those interactions cannot easily be quantified.

A class that can fight efficiently (meaning good interactions above) doesn't need to be the toughest class on paper to be the toughest class in reality - especially if they can have the option to kite and stil dealing decent damage (monk needs to stand and fight, DS? oh please no, clunky.) So on top of being the stand and fight type (generally speaking), our paper toughness is also not superior to other classes with the option to kite and fight efficiently (oh don't forget they can still generate Resource while kiting, part of the interaction chain above).


Yep yep, that's why the two new mandatory passives are: Ytar and Near Death :)

Without high cd defensive abilities monk simply dies. Unless manage to pull off, a perfect lagless kite on the 10billion hp mob. Peopel forget other melee class Barb has beter passives, abilites to stay alive and even gets ranged dps options/3 offtanks. Crus is not even fully melee usign 2h+shield, more mainstat etc.

With OWE, dual unity and STI and Dodge it can live quite good atm on T6 passively (Bloodmaw seems like a girl tickling you, Ghom still kills you though). Monk should get 50% DR by default to compensate the have to stay in melee forced playstyle.

Fully agree with what you are saying. Skill ranges, cooldowns, animation times, proc coefs, latency, hell even screen resolution all numbers affecting the playstyle. Has to be tested for sure to get a better picture /feel. Especially the feel, numbers cannot show that.

However can be said on PTR notes current available info that monk wont be the new WD or even come close to DH in killing speed. (normal, not gimmicky uber rare item user gameplay)
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06/28/2014 10:35 AMPosted by Bodoka

However can be said on PTR notes current available info that monk wont be the new WD or even come close to DH in killing speed. (normal, not gimmicky uber rare item user gameplay)


^
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The monk class right now is almost entirely broken, and it all centers around EP pullbot spam follower build types.

Remove EP entirely and the monk class with be absolutely nothing, because in essence we have absolutely nothing else for any significant playability. You remove EP and blizzard will be absolutely forced to see that monks are so beyond broke it isn't funny.
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06/28/2014 11:23 AMPosted by Kithsander
The monk class right now is almost entirely broken, and it all centers around EP pullbot spam follower build types.

Remove EP entirely and the monk class with be absolutely nothing, because in essence we have absolutely nothing else for any significant playability. You remove EP and blizzard will be absolutely forced to see that monks are so beyond broke it isn't funny.

Its the only solution, right now we re doing great on the leaderboard with all the top build using ep. Remove that stupid skill for other to shine, because they will have to bring other skil to par with ep, once its removed.
This should be in everyone s sig.
REMOVE_EP_FROM_THE_GAME
Edited by DalaiLama#1376 on 6/28/2014 12:42 PM PDT
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100 Human Rogue
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16635
Posts: 4,190
06/28/2014 11:23 AMPosted by Kithsander
The monk class right now is almost entirely broken, and it all centers around EP pullbot spam follower build types.

Remove EP entirely and the monk class with be absolutely nothing, because in essence we have absolutely nothing else for any significant playability. You remove EP and blizzard will be absolutely forced to see that monks are so beyond broke it isn't funny.
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I don't understand why you guys want to nerf a build that is working? Do you really think if nerfed it would be the catalyst to Bliz fixing the monk and forcing other change? You've obviously not been around very long. It took two years for Bliz to finally give monk options for MP10 and to be honest, they probably just got lucky with some changes. There are working builds around using this ability. It isn't a gimmick - it's been in the game since the start. How about, let's say, we leave the skill as is and work on buffing other skills to bring them in line?

Perhaps we should just take the nerf approach. Every time a new skill comes in that can be effective, we'll ask for it to be nerfed to try to get Bliz to do something else with other skills. That way, we'll never have more than one build that works. Sounds like a logical approach to me.
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Will pull+EP for loot.
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07/01/2014 08:15 AMPosted by jb5goodman
I don't understand why you guys want to nerf a build that is working?


It's not a build, it's a single ability. The more damage you do the better this ability gets until your damage surpasses the amount of damage the ability can do. The more health enemies have the better this ability is and the more damage it can do.

This ability should be in 100% of builds as its going to be more efficient than any other button you put in that slot no matter what because tiered rifts will always outpace our damaging abilities by giving the mobs more and more HP which skews everything in favor of EP further and further.

That is not good game design.
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Cannot really argue with how powerful and necessary it is for Greater Rifts. I happen to like the skill ,as it is a shout-out to the old corpse explosion, and the playstyle is a nice change of pace sometimes (solo, non shatter, non zdps is my experience). I am worried you guys are gonna get a skill I like playing with turned into something trashy I will never use (essence burn I'm lookin at you).

Shouldn't you be arguing that the absurd monster health numbers need to be toned down and critical hit damage should be capped/removed from affix pool?
Edited by Benny#1655 on 7/1/2014 12:46 PM PDT
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Not necessary remove Exploding Palm skill, just reduce or remove explode % damage. Something like last rune ( Essence burn ) need. Now monk is slave one skill with zDPS-style of playing, this is not good.

I say this as monk.
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I'd much prefer they made the explosion into weapon damage % and made the explosion go off on either death OR after a set amount of time. So you could palm 10x and a few seconds later boom.
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