Diablo® III

[outdated] 2.1.0 Exploding Palm remains.

Meh. Either you have monks able to do something no other class can do, making them able to kill stuff faster than everyone, while healing and speeding up the group.

OR you can nerf all that and make monks just the same "hey lets stack Elemental%/CD/CC/IAS/DEX" damage as everyone else.

The second seems much more boring to me. EP leads to several builds that are more interesting to gear and play than just "stack DPS and wear your 6pc set with good weapons".
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07/02/2014 04:23 PMPosted by alienangel
Meh. Either you have monks able to do something no other class can do, making them able to kill stuff faster than everyone, while healing and speeding up the group.

OR you can nerf all that and make monks just the same "hey lets stack Elemental%/CD/CC/IAS/DEX" damage as everyone else.

The second seems much more boring to me. EP leads to several builds that are more interesting to gear and play than just "stack DPS and wear your 6pc set with good weapons".


exactly, all they need to do is make raiment 6 pc to be on bar with other 6 pc, and change a bit inna 4 pc and sunwuko 2 pc, and we are done.
Edited by Lighter#1795 on 7/2/2014 4:34 PM PDT
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For what little it's worth, agreed. EP is not even particularly good, unless you're on PTR and madstone applies it to everything for you and Rimeheart does the real work. Cheese, cheese, cheese.

As long as EP is around there is a single lame reason not to fix the fact that the class does laughably pitiful damage. Remove EP.
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07/02/2014 04:23 PMPosted by alienangel
Meh. Either you have monks able to do something no other class can do, making them able to kill stuff faster than everyone, while healing and speeding up the group.

OR you can nerf all that and make monks just the same "hey lets stack Elemental%/CD/CC/IAS/DEX" damage as everyone else.

The second seems much more boring to me. EP leads to several builds that are more interesting to gear and play than just "stack DPS and wear your 6pc set with good weapons".


I agree. EP might need a slight rework, but theres no reason to remove it. I can't stand the old fists of thunder punch punch cyclone cookie cutter build, it required no thought whatsoever. I almost fell asleep playing those builds. At least you need to pay attention to EP the right targets, it's good utility and is a UNIQUE aspect of our class.

If you want to play a cookie-cutter faceroll keyboard build.. might as well play Frenzy Barb, right?
Edited by dariidar#1647 on 7/2/2014 10:22 PM PDT
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06/28/2014 09:54 AMPosted by dariidar
Counterpoint..

As long as mirrorball remains, "Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to a mm/conflag build."

As long as sentries and M6 remain, "Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to a sentry build."

There are a few top builds for every class. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. As it stands, our current top builds perform well on the PTR.

Is Magic Missle strong on its own or just strong with Mirrorball? Is Sentry strong on its own or just strong with 6 piece?

Is EP strong on its own or just strong with its (arguable) legendary support item Rimeheart, like the above examples?

EP is the single strongest ability in the game, but if it's holding back our other abilities from being buffed to be competitive, then I'd rather they nerf/remove EP to buff us in other areas.

If they buff us anyway, then great, I don't care if other people use EP or not. I'd like to be able to be a dps monk and have general consensus that dps monks aren't a joke.
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07/02/2014 10:34 PMPosted by Glox
but if it's holding back our other abilities from being buffed to be competitive, then I'd rather they nerf/remove EP to buff us in other areas.


Where did you get this idea? Can you link me a statement that a Blue or Dev's respond that clearly says EP is holding monk back from getting a buff to our skills? Seriously people are so stoooopid and they pull nonsense our of their A hole...
Edited by Immortal#6907 on 7/2/2014 11:15 PM PDT
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07/02/2014 10:34 PMPosted by Glox
06/28/2014 09:54 AMPosted by dariidar
Counterpoint..

As long as mirrorball remains, "Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to a mm/conflag build."

As long as sentries and M6 remain, "Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to a sentry build."

There are a few top builds for every class. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. As it stands, our current top builds perform well on the PTR.

Is Magic Missle strong on its own or just strong with Mirrorball? Is Sentry strong on its own or just strong with 6 piece?

Is EP strong on its own or just strong with its (arguable) legendary support item Rimeheart, like the above examples?

EP is the single strongest ability in the game, but if it's holding back our other abilities from being buffed to be competitive, then I'd rather they nerf/remove EP to buff us in other areas.

If they buff us anyway, then great, I don't care if other people use EP or not. I'd like to be able to be a dps monk and have general consensus that dps monks aren't a joke.


If used correctly, EP can be very potent, even without rhimeheart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RikSNduflgM

Just saying.. I have yet to see a wizard/barb beat this clear time.

With offensive passives introduced in 2.1, things can only get better.

Sure, you will see EP in almost all endgame builds. But every other class suffers from similar "shoehorning," blame the game itself not the class.

I see no evidence for removing the skill as it is, though a rework may be in order. I like the idea of putting it on a CD.
Edited by dariidar#1647 on 7/2/2014 11:15 PM PDT
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I think ep is fine where it is now we've had ep d3v and its definitely a good utility skill to use in groups but on top of that, monks are forced if not spoonfed by blizz to utilize this one and only build to grind higher rifts. I think what we should be asking is for some form of balance in defence and offence and given build choiced by fixing actual skills to make it synergize well so that players have more build choices. Monks needs to be able to play on its own EFFICIENTLY. We've taken to much nerfs and we don't need nerfs or removals. what we need is choices.
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100 Human Rogue
16440
Posts: 3,380
07/02/2014 02:18 AMPosted by Yondaime
07/02/2014 01:56 AMPosted by Starbûck
Last time I enjoyed my monk was when monks weren't forced into zero dps palm bots.

That was d3v.

Edit: I quit during the minor patch when they buffed every class except monks.


So instead of asking for a buff first you ask to nerf the best thing we have going for us atm, without even testing? Sure...make monks completely unplayable right while Blizz flutz around until monk officially becomes a follower?


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/search?f=post&sort=time&page=1&a=Starb%C3%BBck%40Caelestrasz

You're welcome to go through my posting history on when I did ask for buffs, I even posted suggestions, at this point I'm just bitter from the time it has taken for them to even realize the issue.

07/02/2014 02:29 PMPosted by Rectalpinist
06/28/2014 09:43 AMPosted by Starbûck
I guess Blizzard d3 dev team doesn't see the issue that is Exploding Palm, and how you've been forced to balance monks around this ability, just change it already... its been nothing but a hindrance to the Monk.

As long as Blizzard assumes you will use exploding palm in your build, Every other single combination of abilities and play styles will suck in comparison to an EP build..

Remove it... give monks a better spender.


boo hoo I don't like EP. remove it instead of..you know..buffing everything else to an extent where it's doable on T6 so I can play things I like.


Core issue in balance for Monk is EP, Blizzard assumes (as long as there is even a 1% chance you will take it) they will balance every other ability under the assumption you will have EP, and we cannot have every other ability buffed and still have EP in its current state, that would be borderline broken.

07/02/2014 07:47 AMPosted by Eternal
If blizzard needs to do anything, its remove all the lazy kids crying that theres nothing else. Or enable a drop called " A brain" because a lot of people here need it.


First of all, no those builds aren't viable T6 (not compared to other classes) anything is viable when you're willing to zdps while you slowly fall asleep.

Secondly, I have more time farmed/experience than you in D3 alone.

Lastly, before you ever assume again someone is lazy maybe you should back up those claims and find out some information on your target.

I've played every Diablo game so far, I've conquered Ubers in Diablo 2 and 3; I've even held top 5 on a ladder as a kick assassin, you probably drooled your way to victory with hammerdins... but that's assuming you even played Diablo before D3ROS.

07/02/2014 07:54 AMPosted by KimSulki84
OP,

Post your profile.


Before I do (which I am gladly to do so), what do you think this will accomplish?; Do you believe you will "catch" me being some terrible noob complaining because this game is too hard?

Either way there is no real relevance to my profile, it won't discount my knowledge or experience with the monk, or more importantly the inner understanding of the core issues of monks; Which I won't post here, it has been covered already in hundreds of threads, some more detail than I have posted, it would just be an echo chamber.
Edited by Starbuck#1587 on 7/4/2014 9:29 PM PDT
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I think the Math helps with setting a base for how something can work.

But there are many factors that simple maths on how one thing works doesn't account for the whole experience. For example,

Resource Regen <-> Spenders <-> Play Style (kite/melee) <-> Skills/Item Synergies <-> Player Skills, all those interactions cannot easily be quantified.
.


Most of those are not hard to quantify, you just need to have a decent understanding of math.
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I wonder how much more QQ if any of the following is nerfed due to
"pigeonholding a class to build a certain way":

- M6 and Sentry
- Jade and Pets
- Leap
- Shotgun and FoH
- Wiz and Wiz
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EP in 2.1 is an extremely well used skill. It scales in GR quality now which is so much better. Using it means you can't use other spenders right away so when solo it's not entirely broken. In groups it has a good rotation with generators especially if our generators were FASTER and DO MORE DMG. Which guess what they just announced.. Generators will be faster and do more dmg. It's not a crutch anymore it's just a really good ability, there's nothing wrong with really good abilities. Stormbreaker relies on really good abilities overall... Especially since they changed Flying Side Kick to Radiance.
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i play with monk for its exploding palm it is the best for sc and hc. dont remove it or monk will be thrash.
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nerf not remove .. just needs the bonuses that were added removed.. now theres realyl no way to do grifts
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06/28/2014 09:43 AMPosted by Starbûck
Remove it... give monks a better spender.


Still waiting for part 2
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So does anyone still use EP? All I see on leaderboards are genwuko
Edited by Susulemon#1649 on 9/17/2014 5:15 AM PDT
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100 Human Rogue
16440
Posts: 3,380
This thread is irrelevant now please don't bump it Susulemon.
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I'm just trying to find an EP build to play, and this thread was the latest, about a month old.

So skills become irrelevant in D3 really fast? Or is it just EP
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