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Daja vu ... :(
@HolyHermit, I love your enthusiasm and videos.
In regards to the monk, I think most people are missing the plot, the core of a character.
Basically what their doing is shifting the monks core design around until they find a good balance at the bottom end, once that is achieved will they be able to implement buffs, as seen on the monkey set last PTR patch, one number tweak and it's our top build, simple as that. It's impossible to fix a characters core gameplay mechanics and buff it at the same time, so their going for a systematic upgrade process.
I do agree that currently were under-performing but tbh, so what, it's PTR, live 2.1 is what matters.
@Strego, I think you need to step back from the monk till live hits my friend, I don't think your looking at the bigger picture and are focused way too much on the here and now and not what may be and most probably will be.
@Druin, Ive read all your posts, bud, your starting to weave off your analytical path. I understand the frustration and irritation but ive seen more and more not so useful responses from you. Stick with analysing the class to help improve it and please don't fall into this negative spiral most monks are in. You have a great mind for summarising the monk in it's entirety and I would hate to see us monks loose that from you.
To summarize what I believe, Blizz has taken the car to the body shop, changed it's tires to high performance ones with a racing steering wheel and bucket seats, now their busy deciding what size engine we need to utilise those upgrades. Be patient, I 100% believe they will give us what we need, no doubt it my mind, go back and analyse the monk as a whole now, what it's current playstyle is leaning towards and ignore the numbers. If what you see and play is fun to you then great, it's an all-round improvement already, all you now need to do is wait for the numbers needed.
Just as a side note, I HATE the rainment mechanic with a passion and really hope they change it in the future, but dam the Monkey king set play-style is fun, I myself struggled to push it in higher torment currently due to numbers, also possibly myself needing more time to learn the play-style, but I can really see myself playing it once they got the numbers fixed.
Pretty agree the item that a normal monk user have to farm.
But I think at least you need to add 2 as below,
1: Flying Dragon (With socket), and roll as DEX+ % demage or DEX+ 800+life from spirit spend or CDR
2: a SOJ.
I used WoTL Build beat GR 30 easily with SWK + Flying Dragon set, through its not a excellent class as High end, I am enjoying this change.
I haven't even logged into the game for about 4 months.
But I've been keeping an eye on patch notes and am just infuriated with the changes.
Blizzard yet again displaying complete ineptitude when it comes to balance.
I never once thought that monk was unpowered, up to this point.
I've always been able to manipulate stats and bend mechanics to make the monk a powerful character.
I've always been able to optimize my monk to achieve whatever goal it was I aimed for.
Up until now... all I can do now is facepalm at these changes and continue to ignore the game in protest.
Blizzard needs to fire these clowns and hire a balance team with collectively the competency of a single brain...
I could do a better job singlehandedly in a week's time. Given, that's not saying much...
Edited by Peli#1747 on 8/18/2014 11:04 AM PDT
Amusing that one can preach for patience from monks, and with a straight face no less.
You can't change mechanics while balancing a class, huh? That's news to me. In fact, news to any credible game designer I would imagine. That monks will likely go live in a worse state than they were before is comedy bordering on farce.
Well live is about hit in 1 week and the chances of any major changes to the class between now and then are pretty slim. If they do another PTR patch ill change my opinion on the class with the patch and based on the changes in the patch. Until then all im doing is telling you the truth about the way things are ATM. Im not spewing out made up nonsense, or my incorrect opinion's i am giving you facts based on evidence from the PTR
Woah man you need to relax and take a step back. Just know in your heart that blizzard will fix everything like they always do. Look at the big picture they gave us a set with a 6 peice bonus, stop saying things are good or bad and wait for the patch to go live and then maybe you can complain when theyre done making changes anytime soon.
Edited by Strego#1555 on 8/18/2014 12:46 PM PDT
The game is over 2 years old...
When do you stop saying, "Wait for the patch to go live" and start saying, "Blizzard's balance team is a bunch of incompetent morons."
We've been waiting for 2 years for Blizzard to institute some semblance of balance for this game...
We've been more than patient...
Very emotional response my friend, once again, take a step back and calm down. Im not defending anyone, Im simply explaining what route the Devs decided to take, it's their choice, no amount of moaning will change that PROCESS. Keep an eye out for the end result and then rage, Ill be there right next to you if it doesn't pan out, but once again, I believe it will. For now though, keep it cool and calm, there's no point for this aggression.
Oh and sarcasm is a layman's method of communication, I don't believe you are, so don't portray yourself as one.
@crisco, do not, even for a moment think you understand the development process at blizzard, or think your qualified enough to judge exactly what process they should or shouldn't take.
These people know what their doing,oh god, here it come, "moan moan, no they don't".
What I do see, anyone that tries to be reasonable and doesn't fall into this spiral of negativity will be met with force, I take my hat of to blizz and understand more and more why they avoid replying to monk thread, explaining what they do won't help since everyone want's it done now and can obviously do it better, the arrogance astounds.
Im excited to see 2.1, that is my opinion and fortunate for me, im allowed to have one.
Heres the thing. I wont be complaining about anything when theyre done. Ill complain now BEFORE theyre done, so that maybe they fix it? Can you see the logic in that?
If you go to get a haircut and she starts cutting it too short, do you wait until she's finished and then say , Hey miss i think you messed up my hair! or do you stop her as shes doing it? Once theyre done theyre probably done until next patch and we have to deal with whatever they give us. Ill rage now instead, especially at the people who's feedback too Blizzard at this time smells of "Good job Monks are much better now"
Edited by Strego#1555 on 8/18/2014 3:34 PM PDT
We monks have been way too patient.
We were misled by a Blizzard mole, who pretends to be a happy and positive representative, but in reality has been doing nothing but holding us back whenever we voiced our unhappiness with the terrible changes.
Months later, into the final weeks of the PTR, our class has lost several things, most notably the old Exploding Palm, and has not received anything comparable in return. To add to the insult, our class is still miles behind the others in GR progression.
I believe our class is pretty much done for.
We have all been deceived by our own representative into giving the Monk devs too little pressure.
We have all been deceived by our own representative into hoping that our monk would actually be buffed to be competitive with the best classes.
We have all been deceived by our own representative into believing that the Monk devs would be releasing a PTR build that truly buffs our class without any sort of retarded nerfs at the same time.
If only Strego were our MVP.
I have been away for a few hours and look at the kind of response this post is getting. Thank you all for contributing to this :) Please do allow me to answer you amazing feedback.
I think every true monk will agree with your point about old palm being better than the new one. It was the skill I used since I first found my sledge of ath in 1.02 and never gave it away. However, the way monster's health scales in current state (2.1) of the game, this skill had to be changed otherwsie we all saw what monks could in rifts. This however does put a lot of pressure on other skills and ideally, other skills must be buffed accordingly to counteract the weakening of EP. I actually made a whole post on how EP can be improved, here is a link to it:
EU EP palm improvements: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11181758224?page=1
This is point I try to make in the video, monk's ability to kill things has certainly been buffed and 2 handed monk will actually be a real idea which will come into fruition. I also understand that due to these buffs, monk's skills can carry him to Grifts 30-35 but beyond that we start to see flaws. These flaws are linked to the synchronicity of skills and if we compare monk's offensive potential to DH, the disparity becomes quite evident and monks do indeed start to lag behind.
One prime way we were so influential in pre 2.1 was abilty to use EP and this skill was the reason why zDPS and shatter palm monks were possible.However, the changes to this skill were needed and we are in a position where the void needs to filled with either, a new exploding palm, or, revising other skills. This is where I choose to say that monks are being pushed in the right direction. Except for exploding palm, the changes we have received are for the better. Monks are now generating more spirit and attacking a bit faster (this still needs to be improved). Our damage numbers are also being buffed and so are their mechanics in a small extent. I do agree that it is by no means perfect,but it is the step in the right direction.
Hey Druin, thanks for stopping by and sharing your words of wisdom. I am glad to see that you do agree with the fact that EP was our crutch that carried us to high torments pre2.1. This has ofcourse been nerfed and as much as I dislike the change, I do agree with it as it made the skill to be mandatory on monks. After all ours is the only class that could do anything in vanilla and still do well !
Since you have been testing out monk on PTR, what do you think of the changes to other skills for monks. The attack speed modifiers have been tweaked but that ofcourse does not solve everything. Changing the damage numbers will let monks farm T6 and low levels of grifts but this will not be enough on high levels. So yes, I am aware that monks are far from their former self but the changes made in the patch are a step in the right direction. I actually made a post on EU side discussing exploding palm where quite a lot of people came up with great ideas on how the skill can be improved, I will link the post again, it would be great to know your thoughts on it :)
EP improvementsL http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11181758224?page=1
So many kind folk have been enagaging with this post, I will answer you all in the next post, thanks!
Edited by HolyHermit#2407 on 8/18/2014 5:45 PM PDT
Thanks for the kind words, this is what I believe in too. The real issue with monk is the mismatch of its core concept. As RoS was launched,monk's attack speed modifiers were tweaked, spirit regenaration suffered, sets were underwhelming and spirit spenders were flawed. The changes that are being made in 2.1 (except exploding palm) are pushing monk in the right direction. Our modifiers are being tweaked (more is needed here), spirit regen has been excellent ( I am glad to see this change), sets have been improved; Sunwuko is being altered and inna's too is getting a small buff thanks to salvation, raiment is still raiment :( and our spenders are being buffed. If only we would receive some more attention, monks will start to bounce back :)
Hey mate!, I just make videos and post on forums now, been too busy at work. 2.1 might come out before the end of this month.
You are very passionate sir and I do agree that class needs more balancing, but this where you and I come in. Any constructive criticism you add to the posts will definately be seen by blizzard, I can promise you that. So by all means, if you wish to add something, please do and I will pass your criticism through :)
The patch is yet to come live and maybe we can try to send positive feedback to the "powers that be" !
I am excited for 2.1 too and am hping that monks will be fun to play again !
I will be hard to agrue with your point because its very true. I do have a silly theory of mine as to why DH and WD are so great. I think it has something to do with afk farming with pets. Think about it, any class that has pets as build is doing superb, not just WD and DH, but also lord commander crusader. The question my dear friend is, are the classes actually that great or are the pets way too strong? Monks and wizards do not have access to pets and look where we are, lagging behind :) I aim to make a post about this soon and it would be great if you could share your feedback there.
There is no folly in compaining about something beforehand, especially when something could be done about it! So by all means, please do share your feedback and I will be glad to pass it along. All you and I can do is highlight the issues; eventually I am certain that our class will get better.
Whoa whoa, how can a monk question the tranquility of a fellow monk. That is unbecoming of him and doubt will soon be drowed in a wave of consciousness. Please understand that no matter how experienced and passionate we are, the end verdict comes from the devs only. I personally would gladly admit that they know more about the game they made, than what I know about it, even with my 2000+ hours invested! I am also certain that the class will improve in future and every feedback we provide will help them make the class better and better, even though it may not seem like it right now :)
Edited by HolyHermit#2407 on 8/18/2014 6:15 PM PDT
And that's part of the problem, they know a lot but do very little about it. Their knowledge seems to be entirely based only on numbers, despite the fact if it works/have good synergy or not.
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