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@Carnage: Quoting to agree with you since my post is a bit aggravated.
And this only makes it even more depressing. This forum has handed them the numbers to look at and fix, and they still sit back and do nothing.
There is a very good reason why most monks have gotten irritated. Multiple players have done the math that the Devs are getting PAID for simply out of fondness for the class, and all monks have received is an apathetic slap to the face in terms of changes.
There's a vast difference between pointing out a disagreement constructively and moaning aimlessly, saying the same preparative things over and over "monks suck" "im done with D3 my monk sucks" is none progressive and add no value at all. Why does the monk suck to you and what do you believe will be better while considering the ROUT their taking and the OBVIOUS end, it will reach.
Let's ride that analogy of yours for a second, so she starts cutting your hair wrong, you have one of two choices, one is moan and tell he she sucks and your haircut sucks, still sitting in that chair while she continues to cut your hair wrong, second is tell her what you want her to do to make the cut suit you, taking into account her experience, know she might just know better than you what looks good on you, telling her you can't see this haircut working BECAUSE your not used to short hair is fine, that informs her of what the problem is and also gives her a chance to explain "but sir, your head is round and you need shorter hair from my experience and you will look wonderful with my cut". At this stage you once again have a choice, don't believe her and believe you know better, stand up and leave, staying seated and moaning aimlessly won't help (considering, for the sake of the analogy's reference, you have no power to stop her or change her mind) or trust in her experience and go with the flow and might even be pleasantly surprised. Working WITH her as you go along will yield a better result.
My problem is none CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, be it in disagreement of the discretion taken or not, my problem is negative feedback that doesn't use the entire data pool and that doesn't add any value to a conversation, once again, if you believe the monk sucks, fine, just please for the life of me don't get stuck on the here and now in a PTR, consider where it's going and then, with that in mind give us your constructive feedback. Once again, ONE number tweak and were in a far better position, albeit there's still problems like synergetic items to builds and the clunky rainment set but im 100% positive we will be competitive.I would rather be competitive(with the fun monkey build) and have the 2.1 release than wait for months for them to redesign synergetic items and build variants. Also know I never said the monk was perfect, by any means, I said we will be fine, meaning competitive in end game, since that seems to be the primary concern, ladders.
And just on the side, once again with ONE number tweak (after the core was fixed, progressive changes) were in a far better situation, proof below (yes were not there yet but ill restate, progressive changes).
Barb = 39 - 1
Barb = 37 - 1
Barb = 36 - 6
Barb = 35 - 2
Crusader = 40 - 1
Crusader = 38 - 2
Crusader = 47 - 3
Crusader = 46 - 6
Crusader = 45 - 8
DH = 40 - 2
DH = 39 - 3
DH = 38 - 12
DH = 37 - 8
DH = 36 - 31
Monk = 36 - 3
Monk = 35 - 5
Monk = 34 - 14
Monk = 33 - 10
WD = 38 - 2
WD = 37 - 1
WD = 35 - 4
WD = 34 - 4
WD = 33 - 10
Wizard = 39 - 1
Wizard = 37 - 5
Wizard = 36 - 13
Wizard = 35 - 23
Wizard = 34 - 30
All the other classes seems to not have moved much on the leader boards, but guess what has happened to the monk (which is currently hugely under-represented), were at 36, with a number tweak. Yes, one more number tweak will be incoming for us and bobs your uncle and fanny your aunt.
Statement based on competitiveness not versatility.
What if Blizzard decides this is the final buffs for monk and in their minds monk are in a fine place.. Are you going to eat your words by making all these crystal ball predictions? Facts, monk are the weakest class at the moment, Facts, patch 2.1 will be release at the end of the months i.e, i highly doubt they'll be tweaking any numbers been so close to one of the biggest patch since D3 was release...
Edited by Immortal#6907 on 8/18/2014 11:41 PM PDT
Keep an eye out for the end result and then rage, Ill be there right next to you if it doesn't pan out
Please read everything in the thread, once again, the whole picture, not just filtered down single statements to fit your argument (that's the paparazzi job).
My entire theory is based around the end result, moaning about the process they decided to take or our current situation means nothing if it's not constructive towards the process they take, they will not change their ways for anyone except if told to do so by someone higher up on the food chain, ofc.
A suitable statement would be "ok, you guys buffed our IAS, spirit generation, our tank and the Monkey set, what we need now is another 500-100% weapon damage on the proc and maby allow the set to inherit the element that proced it", not "we suck uninstall D3 omg cry cry".
Edited by Kildalore#2350 on 8/18/2014 11:54 PM PDT
You've already gave the whole picture with the current state of the monk class i.e, it's the weakest class at the moment and i have already told you that patch 2.1 will be release by the end of this month and seems illogical that Blizzard will be tweaking any numbers been so close to release....
Edited by Immortal#6907 on 8/18/2014 11:52 PM PDT
I'm not convinced that they do know much about the game...
And I can certainly say that their changes are not data driven.
For instance, back when they did the attack speed nerfs, I wrote a long and comprehensive analysis on attack speed in each slot compared to similar alternative offensive values that you could get for each slot.
In the end, it concluded that the nerf to attack speed on weapons was too harsh and the nerf to rings was not enough. As a result, I theorized that the poorly executed nerf they had proposed would result in pidgeon holing everyone into the same gear looking for identical stats in each slot with the exception of their primary stat.
Math predicted it would happen... then it happened.
Prices inflated on attack speed rings. Attack speed weapons fell out of favor and inflated the cost of crit damage and socketed weapons. And in the end all that happened was that people were pidgeon holed even more.
The same story occurs over and over in this game's history. Yes they have some good ideas for mechanic design. But their balance is atrocious... and clearly not data driven.
Edited by Peli#1747 on 8/19/2014 6:23 AM PDT
Just in case you forgot, the "overly optimistic monk viewpoints" got us nowhere.
True, in 2.1 we have a few buffs which made playing slightly more bearable, but we also have several nerfs which don't make sense.
At the end of the day, we still rank last in the GR leaderboards.
If only our MVP(s) had pushed for more aggressive buffs, we wouldn't have ended up in such a pathetic state.
If HolyHermit is going to be the same type of MVP as Druin, then why bother? 1 brown-noser gets nothing done.... 2 are just terrible and excessive.
You have no idea what youre saying. I have offerd up pages upon pages on this forum of suggestion and constructive criticism.
Ive never said im done with D3. I said after the patch i wont be on the forums complaining because it will be a waste of time.
Dont put words in my mouth. You manipulating my analogy isnt making my point any less valid. You try to affect change while change is happening not after its finished.
Again you must not pay any attention to these forums. I only came into this thread to try and add a dose of reality into all of the " Monks are so much better now" feedback.
Blind optimism is far worse and more dangerous than analyzed criticism. Take your blind faith and go have a religious experience in the mountains with your "HolyHermit" buddy. Youre obviously not intrested in reading or debating any of the " Feedback" ive given in this thread or others. You just want to be real mad at me for being a meanie to Blizzard before theyre done
Oh and the here and now that you think im so stuck on is just about gone according to Blizzard. When theyre finished with this patch im not gunna be on here offering up feedback on whats wrong. Why would i do that? It makes no sense.
Edited by Strego#1555 on 8/19/2014 7:14 AM PDT
My problem is none CONSTRUCTIVE feedback
Really, Kildalore? The people in this forum pointed out the problems with the class, stated what Blizzard did and didn't do for the class, used data and numbers to demonstrate that, suggested very practicable solutions for those issues, and then summed all up in neat, easy to read forum posts for all to understand and comprehend. How on earth is that NON-constructive???
Yes, blizzard buffed the monk, no one's denying that, but it's a fact that they took away the endgame build (zDPS) and didn't give us anything in its place. Raiment set is supposed be the default endgame set, but everyone and their mother think it's crap.
I suggest you read Druins posts on the subject, or refer to a dictionary for the definition of "constructive definition".
monk is far better than before, the buff for swks enables mantra spamming and bell spamming build, letting more and more monks reach GR 30+, but still not quite enough to be comparable to DH and wizzard. SSS need to be significantly buffed and EP/rimeheart combo should be back in a proper way to make the top monk leaderboard more diverse. TLK should be buffed to be able to take advantage of swk, otherwise it's only a GR 30 build not GR 30+.
Been playing this game for two years, I highly doubt BLZ would do that.
I will say this again, I do understand everyone's frustrations with monk and therefore welcome any constructive feedback you may have regarding the class. Such as my position stands, I also promise to pass this feedback along to our dev team.
I am also aware of the fact that most you have posted your feedback on this forum and are not happy that the suggested changes have not been made. I know for a fact that all such feedback is indeed read by blizz but the changes made to the class are chosen and finalised by dev team itself. From where the game is headed, I personally believe that monks are improving but more of this improvement is needed. In turn, blizz too is aware of this and will make the changes when deemed necessary.
Regarding Druin, I full-heartedly disagree with the negativity and believe he is one of the best MVPs we have ! Please do understand that our responsibility is to pass on the feedback which Druin did in a splendid way.
In the end, I will try my best to share you positive remarks with the "powers that be :) " and if you wish to convey something, I will always be here. So lets try to keep this post as constructive as possible :)
Here ya go Ignored Constructive Post #13247
Monks imo by far take the most damage due to their playstyle of any class. The only endgame option you have as a Monk while playing in a group is to go full tank to survive which was ok when we had exploding palm but now that option is gone. To solve this Blizzard needs to double the effectiveness of our defensive passives to be atleast twice the value of our offensive passives so that we can more easily replace the 50% damage reduction from double unity rings when we want to play in groups.
Harmony to 100%
Sixth Sense to 50%
Guardians path to 50%
Trancendence to 800 +1%globe
With this change assuming you already use Harmony + Double unity rings + Moratorium you could replace the damage reduction from the unity rings by dropping 1 20% damage increase passive for a 50% damage reduction passive instead of...
Replacing 2-3 20% damage increases for a 50% damage reduction. If you have to pay equal value on defense youll weaken your offense so much that the only viable option for you will be to go full tank, no damage, support follower.
I think this change could also help solve our offensive problems when playing solo by allowing us to switch in more offense while using Unity ring and therefore would move monks up the Leader Boards.
Congratulations on becoming a Monk MVP. I hope you advocate for both casual and dedicated monk players.
This sounds more as "push button to win". Holy Hermit means well (has funny builds not just for monks) , if you got a beef with how the Monk is not doing well he is not the person doing the programming.
Everyone knows what is going on with the Monk but certain things are only out of proportion due to some other classes which seem to have it "easy" .
You can ask yourself this question and know the answer already: If Blizzard Diablo 3 developers were so good why would this mess with Monk have happened in the first place?
The problem is selling this patch as the Monk patch which drew bigger expectations since the start of 2.1 on PTR we seen nothing on the Monk fixes. The waiting was annoying and to say that when we had our first patch which did have Monk in it it was lacklustre. This does not help the situation.
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