Diablo® III

How about skill leveling as a solution?

Posts: 29
I was actually surprised to learn that what I'm going to be talking about was not part of the plan all along when I learned that the assigning of skill points was being taken out of the game.

I perfectly understand Blizzard's goals for what they want the game to be and how the removal of skill points served that purpose. I am, however, one of those people that is a little disappointed that the solution to the issue left players with unlimited skill swapping. There is a sense of achievement when you've fully leveled a character with a specific build and have put in hours to create a skill set that serves the given purpose you have selected. The ability for any one to instantly acquire (through a combination of skill swapping and monies spent at the AH) any given build to fit any situation does cheapen that somewhat.

I read the post that proposed the use of runes; that being the rule that no skill could be swapped out once it had been runed, to be very interesting. And I think it went a long way towards restoring that sense of achievement. Though, even that solution could be quickly worked around by spending a little time in the AH and then returning to town to have your skills wiped. What I'm looking for is a real reason to commit to leveling my character. I want something to show for the hours I put in that someone who has not put in similar hours cannot duplicate.

The simplest solution to me is the use of skill leveling. It's a really straight forward idea, taken straight from WoW (if that offends you, get over it). Just like many of the skills you train in WoW; first aid, cooking, fishing, or any of the professions, the more you use a skill the higher ranking you earn for that skill. If I choose to play through the majority of the game with a particular skill or spell I can expect that skill to be of a higher level and therefore more effective that one that I used very little.

I envision a system where this skill leveling would have a max limit, but one that was set high enough and with a slow enough progression that skill leveling would continue past level 60. This does several things for players. First it gives them a sense of achievement to max out any given skill and confidence that their work cannot be easily duplicated by anyone that has not put in equal amount of time. Second, It provides additional motivation to continue to grind in the game well after reaching level 60 seeking not only more gear, but also to level your skills. Finally, it adds even more customization to an already very customizable game, but in a way that does not necessarily add complexity. It can be daunting for a newcomer to the Diablo series to have to grasp the intricacies of a skill system where you have to manually assign skill points. In this solution all you have to tell them is "The more you use a skill the better it becomes."

I'm not ignorant to amount of work it would take to implement a system like this. And, I certainly don't think the game is broken without it. But a solution that better maintains the goals of Blizzard while also satisfying the requests of the player I have heard none.
Edited by Longrifle on 9/15/2011 4:20 PM PDT
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The more you use a skill the less reason to use others.
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Edited by Jacka on 3/19/2012 8:30 PM PDT
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this is too long to read for a repeat thread

but skills will all scale appropriately as you level, so instead of clicking on a skill 20 times to max it out, you only have to click it once.

if your saying skills should gain experience, well thats exactly the kind of thing they are trying to avoid.


Well, if this is a repeat idea I apologize, I didn't see it. But I do think it could be made to be something much more than simply clicking a bunch to max out your skills. The progression could be made to be very slow and only take effect when in combat.
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Excellent post and idea.
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Another of these, huh?
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I don't understand why people can't wait to actually play the game before assuming there's something wrong with the skill system.

I'd rather play a game where I have 20 skills available to me and all 20 of them are useful at least some of the time, than play a game where I have 20 skills available to me and I only need to pick 3-4 that I like and I can make those fit any situation.
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I really like the idea of having all skills available and having to switch out skills in order to fit certain situations. It adds a whole lot to combat diversity and complexity that is not available when you have just one main skill that you synergized to be the complete basis of your character. This makes it so you have to spend less time leveling characters and more time focusing on how you are going to use that character and the multitude of useful skills they have.

In short: I would rather have 1 character of each class that I can customize with equip, runestones, apprentices, etc. vs. 5 of each character that do the same thing 5 different ways.
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09/15/2011 04:23 PMPosted by altairian
I'd rather play a game where I have 20 skills available to me and all 20 of them are useful at least some of the time, than play a game where I have 20 skills available to me and I only need to pick 3-4 that I like and I can make those fit any situation.


I can appreciate that. However, what you describe represents a major shift from the type of game that Diablo has historically been. That being one where you did decided on a few skills that you want to dedicate your time to.

You will still have access to all of your skills, it will simply take more time to be able to expect the best from all of them. Imagine getting to the point where you finally maxed out all of your classes skills and are truly able to be the best you can be in any situation simply by swapping out your skills. Now that's an achievement.
Edited by Longrifle on 9/15/2011 4:38 PM PDT
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09/15/2011 04:23 PMPosted by altairian
I don't understand why people can't wait to actually play the game before assuming there's something wrong with the skill system.


You nailed it right there and I can't agree with you enough!

Anyway, I rather like the way the system works right now and, frankly, I really don't want it to be changed at all or at least not until I've had a chance to try it out.
Edited by teflon on 9/15/2011 4:42 PM PDT
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09/15/2011 04:42 PMPosted by teflon
I don't understand why people can't wait to actually play the game before assuming there's something wrong with the skill system.


One doesn't have to play the game to be able to grasp some of the major implications of an instant skill swap system. And, as I stated in my post, I don't think the game is broken. But, there is no denying that the some of the community has been looking for a possible way to make this better. I'm just trying to add to the conversation.
Edited by Longrifle on 9/15/2011 4:47 PM PDT
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Edited by Jacka on 3/19/2012 8:29 PM PDT
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I agree but I would still like the opportunity to try it out before making any suggestion. I feel that it doesn't cheapen the experience by allowing skill swapping.

I posted this in the other similar thread:
However, if they do make a change, I would be agreeable with it simply not being swappable while in combat. I am heavily opposed to anything that makes it unnecessarily inconvenient such as only being swappable in town, or anything that adds another gold sink.

As a hardcore player, I really like the idea of being able to change my skills on the fly in between battles to adapt to each situation that I might encounter. I tend to take my time when I play hardcore and allowing a little setup prior to certain battle encounters is pretty nice.

I guess I view it in a same light as setting up a team before each fight level in Final Fantasy Tactics, where you strategically pick your team members at the beginning, only in this case you would be strategically picking your runes/skills.
Edited by teflon on 9/15/2011 4:56 PM PDT
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Posts: 38

I can appreciate that. However, what you describe represents a major shift from the type of game that Diablo has historically been. That being one where you did decided on a few skills that you want to dedicate your time to.


Diablo 3 is not Diablo 1, nor is it Diablo 2. What he described is the evolution of an inefficient system; which required you to get half way through the game to realize that what your doing is wrong, then start over again. This is not what the Diablo 3 team wants, gameplay that is repetative through mistakes that aren't noticable until 2/3 though the game, at which point you start from scratch.


You will still have access to all of your skills, it will simply take more time to be able to expect the best from all of them. Imagine getting to the point where you finally maxed out all of your classes skills and are truly able to be the best you can be in any situation simply by swapping out your skills. Now that's an achievement.


This system already exists, with the exception of the massive time sink. The problem with pulling this train of though (Leveling Skills) from a game like World of Warcraft is that they are two different genre's of games. WoW is an MMO, who's proffability is based on monthly subscriptions, in which case time sinks (I.E. Leveling Skills) of that magnitued make sense. Diablo 3 doesn't need time sinks... as a matter of fact, the only time sink I would like to see come of Diablo 3 is demon slaughtering.


[Edit] for grammaaaar
Edited by Vanich on 9/15/2011 4:58 PM PDT
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09/15/2011 04:56 PMPosted by Vanich
Diablo 3 doesn't need time sinks... as a matter of fact, the only time sink I would like to see come of Diablo 3 is demon slaughtering.


Yes, I'm really tired of time sinks.
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Its interesting but its also the reason weapon skill was removed from WoW. It became a grind that didn't really change gameplay it just impeded it.
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Posts: 79
My two cents...while i wait...
I think the skill swapping combined with the runes is a good way to combat the problem of the previous games which was once you made a choice you were stuck with it.

People might argue that "you can customize your character, and make it your own" or "its part of the challenge of the game" but the problem with this is that after the game is out for a month there will be several established ways to build each character and everyone will do it. Granted there will be a lot more options with the runes, but if your limited to one build than each class will have a couple builds that will preform decent in all situations. Everyone will just look to the forums and pick an established build and go with it, and there goes the idea of unique characters/playability.

With the skills and runes we can all play and experiment and change as the game changes. I'm sure blizzard will make changes and updates that could potentially change how a characters combination of skills would work, if they did this and you were locked into a build that would seriously ruin the game for people. Look at how SC2 has changed since it was released.
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Posts: 38
Its interesting but its also the reason weapon skill was removed from WoW. It became a grind that didn't really change gameplay it just impeded it.


Bolded and Underlined for truth. The reason that weapon skill leveling was removed from WoW is the EXACT reason that Skill Leveling should not exist in Diablo 3
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Posts: 170
Does anyone recognize the pointlessness of these threads? Take a look at what has come of the simple Skill Calculator.

Honestly, it's mind boggling how you people have missed the MASSIVE accomplishment blizzard has made making this skill system.

I have 5 friends who will play this with me the day of release, we're already drawing lines as to our two 3 party teams. The reason I mention this is becuase none of us (excepting one) have decided what build we're going to use, let alone what class.

I've yet to see us make two builds the same for the same class, out of about 100 builds we've linked each other and bragged about since the calc's release. And when I say 'the same' I'm not being sneaky, we've yet to copy more than half the same skills for any build, and always the runes and passives come out slightly different.



In the end what you people want is a MATERIAL measure of differences. What blizzard has handed you is a much more meaningful SPIRITUAL measure of differences. (When I use spiritual it has no connotation in this context to religion)

The spirit of this current skill setup is wonderful. We don't need childish and complicated effects to accomplish what we already have.

Come release will builds congeal a bit? Probably, but even then, I see every ability scaling, I see blizzard commenting on a complete disregard to balance... I don't think come release we will have any issue to require an active element that forces us to make a material difference in builds.



Note: The 31-60 "deadzone" makes me laugh. It's all opinion of course, so I don't dare question it, but for me, personally? After normal difficulty in diablo 2 it was ALL about gear and the skills i had chosen getting stronger. I see no difference between this system (for d3) and the system in d2. So quit your belly aching. You just have a misplaced desire for material differences when they don't even matter.

PS: Blizz, if you read this just know that I feel like the system you have in place is the greatest step in gaming yet. It's so unorthodox and yet when you step back and look at the big picture it has the potential to actually create massive diversity. My god!


TL;DR
If you quote me in any way, quote my statement on the spirit of this skill system. The diversity and intensiveness of this skill system is greater than any other game I've ever played. And the game isn't even out yet.
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