Diablo® III

Stat Mechanic Discussion

So I've been thinking about stats lately after trying to figure out Mitigation mechanics and testing some things in game. A few things I discovered when looking into stats

1) Dodge doesn't exist as an innate or stat based mechanic in Diablo 3

2) There's no Mitigation cap (You can get 100% damage mitigation)

3) Vitality and Attack are static (1 Attack increases damage by a set amount while 1 Vitality raises your HP by a set amount)

4) Precision and Defense scale (you need more defense and more Precision to raise your mitigation and crit %'s the higher the level monster you're fighting)

5) All characters have a base mitigation value from auto stats added to Defense which (from the limited Beta) appears to gravitate towards 40% (check your level 13 Beta characters, remove all gear and tell me what your mitigation % is from Defense)

6) Auto Stats at most will get a stat to about 130 (that's base of 12 + 2 per level for 59 levels)

7) Players have around 2000+ stat points to allocate between gear, gems and enchants (750 from gems, 750 from Enchants and 50 per slot (which is being very generous with the value and excluding the fact you can get multiple stats in the same slot) *13 slots = 650 from gear)



So what questions can we garner from these pieces of information? Well, my first thought is if your base defense is 130ish at level 60 for the characters that get 2 defense points per level and you can get 100% mitigation, 2130 defense should easily get you 100% mitigation.

The problem with that is that reducing all damage in the game by 100% would make it preeeeeeetty easy which leads me to believe the *something* happens to prevent this, and I'm thinking that something is diminishing returns. This also holds true with precision and crit chance.

That's my first discussion point. What do you think happens with very large amounts of Precision and Defense? Do you think the Base values drop sharply later in level so your base mitigation doesn't stay around 40%? Do you think there's some event in game that effects this? Do you think there's diminishing returns? Do you think something else happens?

And if there are diminishing returns won't that just cause a softcap to be mathematically figured out? Wouldn't that also mean there will be an *ideal* Defense and Precision value to aim for before you start allocating stat points elsewhere? I'm curious how this is going to work out for a level 60 character!

My second Discussion point is Attack and its static value. 1 Attack = 1% Damage increase, and if you can allocate 2000+ points that's 2000+%! is Blizzard really going to let you sway characters damage by 20+ times? If I have a 2000+ point defense Wizard and you have a 2000+ Attack Wizard are you really going to do 20x more damage than me? that sounds pretty excessive, but also sounds like it allows for quite a lot of variation. Do you think this will stay static the entire time or do you think the excessivness will be addressed in some manner?

My third discussion point is, what do you think of dodge being removed from Diablo 3?

Fourth Point is, what do you think of no Mitigation Cap? A higher level with a high enough defense running through lower level areas will be literally invulnerable with 100% mitigation. Do you think this is alright?

I'm obviously a lot more curious about how Blizzard intends to deal with how Precision and Defense works at the higher levels but thought I'd throw in those other points as they came up in my ramblings!
Edited by BazDefunct on 1/5/2012 9:22 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Undead Mage
8515
Posts: 74
well, by adding 12 defense on my character i only got 10% extra damage reduction from 30 to 42 defense. So yes there is diminishing returns and would probably be impossible to get 100& Dreuduction, as with crit chance. The problem is attack seems to increase linearly as you've stated. Adding 100 attack vs 100 precision, attack would give you a 100% increase in damage, wheres as 100 precision would probably only net you about 10 or 25% crit chance, and crits only do an extra 70% damage without crit damage stats, adding far less damage than attack. Could be something blizzard is still ironing out, but we'll see what happens with stats when the game is released.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,891
I think you are getting waaaaaaay too carried away.

For one, blizzard isn't stupid enough to allow people to get 100% damage prevention from defense. They will probably design the game such that as your level increases, you need more and more defense (base, from items or otherwise) to maintain the same level of damage reduction.

01/04/2012 10:41 PMPosted by BazDefunct
if your base defense is 130ish at level 60 for the characters that get 2 defense points per level and you can get 100% mitigation, 2130 defense should easily get you 100% mitigation.


You will never, ever be able to get 100% reduction. There is a very simple formula that can be used for calculating damage reduction in a way that make it impossible to achieve 100% reduction. It can be found in Wc3. An example is something like this:

Damage reduction % = [ax]/[ax+y]

Where a is a constant, x is your defense and Y is another constant. a and y are modified according to how much the developers want defense to affect mitigation.



01/04/2012 10:41 PMPosted by BazDefunct
My second Discussion point is Attack and its static value. 1 Attack = 1% Damage increase, and if you can allocate 2000+ points that's 2000+%! is Blizzard really going to let you sway characters damage by 20+ times? If I have a 2000+ point defense Wizard and you have a 2000+ Attack Wizard are you really going to do 20x more damage than me? that sounds pretty excessive, but also sounds like it allows for quite a lot of variation. Do you think this will stay static the entire time or do you think the excessivness will be addressed in some manner?


You are really exaggerating the situation here. First of all, you're assuming that people will be equipping items with +attack only and items with +defense only. While this is possible right now in the beta, the items that are present now only allow for limited number of attribute bonuses. As you get the more powerful items which give +5 or +6 different bonuses, it is highly unlikely that an entire set of gear will be completely devoid of +attack or +defense stats. You will probably never encounter a situation where wizard A will have 2000 attack and no defense, fighting wizard B with 2000 defense and no attack. This is just ridiculous. A much more probable scenario is where one has 1500 attack and 1200 defense, and the other having say 1800 attack and 1000 defense.

Secondly, even if it were possible to build a character with 2000 attack and no defense (which it isnt), it would be unwise to do so. The attributes are designed in such a way that it would be foolish to completely ignore one attribute in favor of another. Because the defense stat is percentage based, a character that exclusively stacks +attack will not do as much damage to another character that uses a balance of +attack and +defense.

Example : Wizard A has 2000% attack and 0% damage reduction.
Wizard B has 1999% attack and 1% damage reduction.
Both wizards cast a spell that usually does 100 damage (w/o bonus) at each other.
Wizard A takes 1999 damage, but wizard B only takes 1980 damage.
Edited by Toiletmonstr on 1/5/2012 2:38 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Troll Mage
1375
Posts: 680
1) Dodge doesn't exist in Diablo 3


Just because they haven't announced it yet doesn't mean there won't be. In D2 resists were capped at 75% and 95% with the + max resist stat. Physical dmg reduced was capped at 50%, although there was nothing in-game that told you this.



3) Vitality and Attack are static (1 Attack increases damage by a set amount while 1 Vitality raises your HP by a set amount)


True, as it was in past games too. But the skills and items will change damage by a %.



4) Precision and Defense scale (you need more defense and more Precision to raise your mitigation and crit %'s the higher the level monster you're fighting)


This is a good thing. They did it the same way with block in Diablo 2. You had to sometimes spend points in dexterity just to get max block. The result, not everyone had max block easy, sometimes had to sacrifice other stats. If it takes 10 precision for example to give you 1% crit (hypothetically, just guessing numbers for explanation) at level 10, then it would be ridiculous at level 60 to have 1% crit still only need 10 precision, since you can get like 150-200 precision on a single item.

-Sabin
www.DarkRevolutionGaming
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,769
1) Dodge doesn't exist in Diablo 3


Wat? Take a look at the monk:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#b!ZW
Edited by JimDandy on 1/5/2012 8:32 AM PST
Reply Quote
01/05/2012 02:34 AMPosted by Toiletmonstr
For one, blizzard isn't stupid enough to allow people to get 100% damage prevention from defense.


01/05/2012 02:34 AMPosted by Toiletmonstr
You will never, ever be able to get 100% reduction.


Under what context? You can ALREADY get 100% damage reduction toilet, you obviously didn't read my entire thread. That's at lower levels though, not higher levels. If you bothered to read my post (Which you obviously didn't), you'd have realized I already said Blizzard wouldn't let us get to 100% mitigation at higher levels and I'm curious how they are stopping it since there's obviously no Mitigation hardcap.

01/05/2012 02:34 AMPosted by Toiletmonstr
You are really exaggerating the situation here. First of all, you're assuming that people will be equipping items with +attack only and items with +defense only.


Again, please read my post because I already addressed this. I already mentioned that items will have multiple stats but was simply addressing the primary stats people could gear up for. Gear will be slightly different as it's harder to get exactly what you want, but it's extremely likley some people can and will Enchant and Gem specifically for all Attack or all Defence (Which is 1500 stat points that can very likley be all one stat). So no, you will never see a class with 0 Defence or 0 attack, but it's very plausable to see one character with 400 attack and 1400 defence or vice versa which is a 10x damage increase between the two, but not a 10x damage reduction difference.

And you know what? Maybe that's okay, I never said it had to be one way or another, I was simply asking what people thought of this so thank you for sharing your opinion.

01/05/2012 07:06 AMPosted by Thugmage
Just because they haven't announced it yet doesn't mean there won't be


It's not in the Beta right now. I had some low level monsters beat on me for several minutes straight and I took damage with every single hit.

01/05/2012 07:06 AMPosted by Thugmage
In D2 resists were capped at 75% and 95% with the + max resist stat. Physical dmg reduced was capped at 50%


Yes, those were the hard caps, but again, I verified this in the Beta and I was able to get 100% damage mitigation. I let the same group of monsters I mentioned above beat on me for several minutes when I was above this cap and I never took a single point of damage. What does that tell you?

01/05/2012 07:06 AMPosted by Thugmage
This is a good thing. They did it the same way with block in Diablo 2. You had to sometimes spend points in dexterity just to get max block. The result, not everyone had max block easy, sometimes had to sacrifice other stats. If it takes 10 precision for example to give you 1% crit (hypothetically, just guessing numbers for explanation) at level 10, then it would be ridiculous at level 60 to have 1% crit still only need 10 precision, since you can get like 150-200 precision on a single item.


Did you read the rest of my thread where I talk about what these scaling stats mean and the actual discussion points I had because of them?

01/05/2012 08:30 AMPosted by JimDandy
Wat? Take a look at the monk:


Hmm, correct. I need to change that to be no innate or stat based Dodge mechanic!
Edited by BazDefunct on 1/5/2012 9:13 AM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]