Diablo® III

D3 Team size

85 Troll Mage
1375
Posts: 725
Diablo 3 has been in development for some 6-7+ years. To make a 2D environmental game and have it take this long is just ridiculous. The team behind this game has to be extremely small.

Bethesta's team of 100 or so people made The elder Scrolls V: Skyrim in 3 years. Less than half of the time d3 has been in production. They developed an entire new revolutionary engine and and a massive game all in this time. Skyrim's content and environment detail is downright amazing. I can almost guarantee it's content and amount of quests will dwarf that of diablo's. And its a 3D environment, unlike diablo. Sure d3 has 3D character abilities and other things, at its core it's still a 2D game. If i had to guess how long it took Bethesta to make that game, I would have guessed 6 years or more. But it didn't.

Another thing people say is that Diablo is an online game. Do you think it really takes an extra 3-4 years to produce online hardware? No.

This leaves no question about it. Diablo's team must be extremely small or they're just extremely lazy which most likely isn't true. A game like this should in no way take 6-7+ years to make. It's just ridiculous.


You really can't compare the two... elder scrolls controls are just horrible. Secondly, elder scrolls is more comparable to WoW than D3, they're just different genres, or rather sub-categories in the RPG genre, but of course Skyrim doesn't have the player interaction level WoW has.

Bathesda might have done it in 3 years, but they only had one game to produce. Look at Blizzard, what games were done in the last 3 years?

2 WoW expansions
Starcraft 2, and announcement of an expansion
Patches for Diablo 2
Patches for starcraft / brood wars (still)
Patches for WC3

Here's a question for you? If Skyrim is so much better, why I are you here? Just the fact that you're here you're contradicting yourself.

-Sabin
www.DarkRevolutionGaming.com
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2710
Posts: 27


01/04/2012 11:48 PMPosted by Lagorathia


I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Diablo III is a completely 3D game that uses 3D physics with 3 dimension levels and exploration.


this. it uses a 3d game engine with 3d physics. it takes advantage of some 2d graphic elements, and it's designed to only be looked at from one angle, but it's a 3d game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dAGQOb5iGc&feature=related 6:50 Jay Wilson 2D quote
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2710
Posts: 27
Diablo 3 has been in development for some 6-7+ years. To make a 2D environmental game and have it take this long is just ridiculous. The team behind this game has to be extremely small.

Bethesta's team of 100 or so people made The elder Scrolls V: Skyrim in 3 years. Less than half of the time d3 has been in production. They developed an entire new revolutionary engine and and a massive game all in this time. Skyrim's content and environment detail is downright amazing. I can almost guarantee it's content and amount of quests will dwarf that of diablo's. And its a 3D environment, unlike diablo. Sure d3 has 3D character abilities and other things, at its core it's still a 2D game. If i had to guess how long it took Bethesta to make that game, I would have guessed 6 years or more. But it didn't.

Another thing people say is that Diablo is an online game. Do you think it really takes an extra 3-4 years to produce online hardware? No.

This leaves no question about it. Diablo's team must be extremely small or they're just extremely lazy which most likely isn't true. A game like this should in no way take 6-7+ years to make. It's just ridiculous.


You really can't compare the two... elder scrolls controls are just horrible. Secondly, elder scrolls is more comparable to WoW than D3, they're just different genres, or rather sub-categories in the RPG genre, but of course Skyrim doesn't have the player interaction level WoW has.

Bathesda might have done it in 3 years, but they only had one game to produce. Look at Blizzard, what games were done in the last 3 years?

2 WoW expansions
Starcraft 2, and announcement of an expansion
Patches for Diablo 2
Patches for starcraft / brood wars (still)
Patches for WC3

Here's a question for you? If Skyrim is so much better, why I are you here? Just the fact that you're here you're contradicting yourself.

-Sabin
www.DarkRevolutionGaming.com




I'm not here to talk about which is better. I'm talking about the sheer amount of quality content the two teams can produce in their development cycles. But saying the controls are "horrible" is insane to say the least. Skyrim is one of the highest metacritic rated games of all time. I understand Blizzard is producing 4 games from 4 IPs, that's why I'm specifically talking about the Diablo 3 team. No other part of the company. Talking about blizzard as a whole is irrelevant. They have specific teams for each game.

Also you say the ridiculous quote "If Skyrim is so much better, why are you here?"
1. I'm not saying Skyrim is better and clearly didnt say this anywhere in my post
2. I guess anyone who likes Skyrim and talks positively about it is in no way allowed to like Diablo or post on the Diablo forums? In no way does your statement make sense.


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Posts: 161


this. it uses a 3d game engine with 3d physics. it takes advantage of some 2d graphic elements, and it's designed to only be looked at from one angle, but it's a 3d game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dAGQOb5iGc&feature=related 6:50 Jay Wilson 2D quote


He is referring to the fact that you can't change the camera angle. In a 3D world where your interface is 2D and can't be changed; what also can't be changed is the 'depth of your mouse'. So they have to guess the 'depth' of the projectile in certain situations.

I really don't think the fact that this game has a '2D interface' by way of it being an isometric game make it less complicated to make. That is implying that the fixed camera angle affects the length of production time. The world is 3D, the physics are 3D, the characters are 3D and the interface is 2D.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2710
Posts: 27


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dAGQOb5iGc&feature=related 6:50 Jay Wilson 2D quote


Bravo, you took it out of context. The gameplay is essentially 2 dimensional, in the same way that StarCraft 2 is 2 dimensional. But the reason you can zoom appropriately and turn the camera is because everything is modeled and done in 3 dimensions still but the player only gets 2 dimensions of movement on the screen.


The point I'm getting at is that diablo doesn't take into account hight variations, taking away that entire aspect of the environment. This directly relates to the development cycle because not having to take this into account, the development of the environments shouldn't take nearly as long as a game that does such as Skyrim or even WoW.
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85 Troll Mage
1375
Posts: 725


You really can't compare the two... elder scrolls controls are just horrible. Secondly, elder scrolls is more comparable to WoW than D3, they're just different genres, or rather sub-categories in the RPG genre, but of course Skyrim doesn't have the player interaction level WoW has.

Bathesda might have done it in 3 years, but they only had one game to produce. Look at Blizzard, what games were done in the last 3 years?

2 WoW expansions
Starcraft 2, and announcement of an expansion
Patches for Diablo 2
Patches for starcraft / brood wars (still)
Patches for WC3

Here's a question for you? If Skyrim is so much better, why I are you here? Just the fact that you're here you're contradicting yourself.

-Sabin
www.DarkRevolutionGaming.com




I'm not here to talk about which is better. I'm talking about the sheer amount of quality content the two teams can produce in their development cycles. But saying the controls are "horrible" is insane to say the least. Skyrim is one of the highest metacritic rated games of all time. I understand Blizzard is producing 4 games from 4 IPs, that's why I'm specifically talking about the Diablo 3 team. No other part of the company. Talking about blizzard as a whole is irrelevant. They have specific teams for each game.

Also you say the ridiculous quote "If Skyrim is so much better, why are you here?"
1. I'm not saying Skyrim is better and clearly didnt say this anywhere in my post
2. I guess anyone who likes Skyrim and talks positively about it is in no way allowed to like Diablo or post on the Diablo forums? In no way does your statement make sense.


Your whole topic is full of contradictions. "I'm not here to argue, but..." The obvious answer is that the diablo 3 segment of blizzard is smaller, there's no discussion value there. You brought up Bathesda so I evened the playing field showing the "quality content". They just weren't focusing on the diablo series as much as the others in the last few years.

Secondly, Diablo 3 is a jump from 2 dimensional to 3 dimensional, they had to re-do EVERYTHING. Not like elder scrolls, where it's just another elder scrolls. New Maps? Yawn. new quests? Who cares. From the player's point of view it should just be an expansion not a whole new game for Skyrim.

Have you noticed they made some big changes to diablo 2 since it released originally on 1.07 (expansion). Look at the skill synergies, look at the new runewords with incorporated skills from one class that can be used by another, look at the "equips x aura" item stats, look at the graphic changes (barbarbarian wirlwind comes to mind). They've done a lot for a game that's over a decade from release.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2710
Posts: 27


The point I'm getting at is that diablo doesn't take into account hight variations, taking away that entire aspect of the environment. This directly relates to the development cycle because not having to take this into account, the development of the environments shouldn't take nearly as long as a game that does such as Skyrim or even WoW.


yes, it very much does take into account height variations, anybody who's played the beta can tell you that. standing at the top of a set of stairs i can shoot down at enemies below. it's very clearly 3d.


You aren't really shooting "down." Your skills are always projected as if you're on a flat surface. Notice if you're above monsters on a floor above you cant shoot at enemies below you. They have to be on the staircase with you as you're going up/down or you must be on the same floor as them to use your spells and abilities on them. Your skills are doing the same thing if your on a staircase than if you're using them on flat ground.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2710
Posts: 27




I'm not here to talk about which is better. I'm talking about the sheer amount of quality content the two teams can produce in their development cycles. But saying the controls are "horrible" is insane to say the least. Skyrim is one of the highest metacritic rated games of all time. I understand Blizzard is producing 4 games from 4 IPs, that's why I'm specifically talking about the Diablo 3 team. No other part of the company. Talking about blizzard as a whole is irrelevant. They have specific teams for each game.

Also you say the ridiculous quote "If Skyrim is so much better, why are you here?"
1. I'm not saying Skyrim is better and clearly didnt say this anywhere in my post
2. I guess anyone who likes Skyrim and talks positively about it is in no way allowed to like Diablo or post on the Diablo forums? In no way does your statement make sense.


Your whole topic is full of contradictions. "I'm not here to argue, but..." The obvious answer is that the diablo 3 segment of blizzard is smaller, there's no discussion value there. You brought up Bathesda so I evened the playing field showing the "quality content". They just weren't focusing on the diablo series as much as the others in the last few years.

Secondly, Diablo 3 is a jump from 2 dimensional to 3 dimensional, they had to re-do EVERYTHING. Not like elder scrolls, where it's just another elder scrolls. New Maps? Yawn. new quests? Who cares. From the player's point of view it should just be an expansion not a whole new game for Skyrim.

Have you noticed they made some big changes to diablo 2 since it released originally on 1.07 (expansion). Look at the skill synergies, look at the new runewords with incorporated skills from one class that can be used by another, look at the "equips x aura" item stats, look at the graphic changes (barbarbarian wirlwind comes to mind). They've done a lot for a game that's over a decade from release.



Do you know Bethesta's designed and made an entire new engine from the ground up for Skyrim exactly as blizzard has done for D3? The creation engine is an entirely separate engine than the one responsible for Oblivion and Fallout. Saying it's just an expansion is ridiculous. The new creation engine contained an entire new renderer, graphics update, animator, and a revolutionary AI system. Saying "yawn new maps new quests" is being extremely ignorant to what the game actually did and how new and different t was.

In all both companies developed new engines for both games so you cannot say one had to "redo everything" and one didnt when they both actually did redo everything and both developed engines from the ground up.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2710
Posts: 27
01/05/2012 12:29 AMPosted by Glock
You aren't really shooting "down." Your skills are always projected as if you're on a flat surface. Notice if you're above monsters on a floor above you cant shoot at enemies below you. They have to be on the staircase with you as you're going up/down or you must be on the same floor as them to use your spells and abilities on them. Your skills are doing the same thing if your on a staircase than if you're using them on flat ground.


By your logic WoW is a 2D game. And I am considering all of your posts. You are just trying as hard as possible to not be wrong, but you are.



You simply don't understand the concept. Take blade's edge arena for instance as an example. If you are on the bridge, and someone is in front of you, you can use your spells on them without having a direct rout such as a staircase that connects you two.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2710
Posts: 27
edit: in the video, he even says they could certainly make more use of the 3d environment in arenas and they choose not to because of the limitations of having only one camera angle. it makes clicking where you want to go harder because the game has to figure out where you're trying to go in a 3d space.


Ok yeah I see you're saying. I agree you are in 3d space and the game is 3d, but there are a lot of limitations in the game. I may have been incorrect about a few things in previous posts about it. The point of the matter is that with the fixed camera angle and other things, it's not the same as an entire 3d environment such as Skyrim and WoW.
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Posts: 105
[quote][quote]<span class="truncated" />

Do you know Bethesta's designed and made an entire new engine from the ground up for Skyrim exactly as blizzard has done for D3? The creation engine is an entirely separate engine than the one responsible for Oblivion and Fallout. Saying it's just an expansion is ridiculous. The new creation engine contained an entire new renderer, graphics update, animator, and a revolutionary AI system.


This is basically a true statement. However comparing the Creation Engine to Blizzard's engine in amount of change between mediums is absolutely absurd. The Creation Engine is essentially, Gamebryo 2.0, literally. The Creation Engine only makes slight improvements and modifications to the actual gpu and draw distances for Skyrim. Unfortunately, it lacks being impressive as it is technically a Directx 9 graphics quality.

A more on par comparison would be the D3 engine to CD Projeckt's Witcher 2 engine; contrasting the two previous entries to the new installments would be a very logical and interesting comparison seeing as CD Projeckt follows much of the design philosophies of Blizzard and would have a comparable staff. Note also the The Witcher 2's graphics are debatably the best graphics for any RPG as is. Seeing as both engines for the Witcher 2 and Diablo are literally, brand new built from scrap engines, such a comparison would be notable.

Yet comparing Bethesda's new engine, which is in techincality terms, last gen to Blizzard's long gestating titles is comparing like comparing apples to the soulful spasms of John Tesh.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2710
Posts: 27





01/05/2012 12:42 AMPosted by Glock
The only time you cannot "shoot down" in D3 is when there is a wall or rail in your way. If the terrain allows you to shoot down, you can shoot down. You are trying to say that because of one element of the game is 2D, then the whole game has to be 2D, which is entirely wrong. It is a 3D game with a few 2D elements. Get over yoursel


From what I've seen in the beta terrain blocks you in every instance not allowing you to shoot down. This may change though I don't know, but this is what's in the game right now. I not saying the entire game is 2D, I've stated it is 3D but with many 2d limitations, that being one of them along with the camera. I don't know if this will be prevalent in all situation in the game, but this is what I've seen so far.
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