Diablo® III

Where Blizzard Went Wrong

So I've gone through Hell with 4 of my buddies (each playing a different class) and here's my take on where Blizz went wrong.

1) Melee Classes: Quite simply Blizzard failed to acknowledge the massive damage gap between classes that can avoid damage entirely (range) and classes that are forced to take damage (melee). Unfortunately, they are just another member of a long list of companies that failed to achieve this balance.
Simple Solution: Almost all melee activated abilities should have a passive defensive included in the core ability. That is, while the wizard is forced to use an entire skill slot for Diamond Skin, the Barbarian (for example) should have diamond skin built into one of its abilities say... Revenge.


2) Elites/Champions: The biggest problem here is not how hard they hit, but the fact that Blizz did not institute a way to avoid the damage like they did with the Act bosses. For example. Why can the "Jailer" automatically encase everyone without missing but Diablo seems to suffer from Down's syndrome when trying to trap people?
Simple Solution: Elites/Champions that are using abilities should have a visual cast-timer (whether it be dark spots on the ground like Diablo’s Cage, or hopping three times before casting) to help players avoid their core abilities.


3) Act Bosses: Seriously, the act bosses should not be easier than the elites/champions. The fact that this is currently the case is inexcusable.
Simple Solution: Act bosses should also gain a randomly generated Elite/Champion ability as well. At which point, they would be "just as hard" as the Elite/Champion packs and should drop loot commensurate with this difficulty change.


None of these suggestions are directed at making the game “more forgiving.” (I agree that failing a mechanic should cost you your life, but as of now there are no “mechanics” to fail you just die). It’s designed to make the game more fun.

Here's hoping to a game that's more fun.
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Simple Solution: Almost all melee activated abilities should have a passive defensive included in the core ability. That is, while the wizard is forced to use an entire skill slot for Diamond Skin, the Barbarian (for example) should have diamond skin built into one of its abilities say... Revenge.


Monk and barbarian take 30% less damage base, than demon hunter, witch doctor or wizard. The melee classes also have passives and abilities which provide significant defensive bonuses.

2) Elites/Champions: The biggest problem here is not how hard they hit, but the fact that Blizz did not institute a way to avoid the damage like they did with the Act bosses. For example. Why can the "Jailer" automatically encase everyone without missing but Diablo seems to suffer from Down's syndrome when trying to trap people?


Because those fights are where you'll generally score the best loot, they are also intended to be some of the most challenging experiences in the game.

We didn't want 'boss farming' to become the goal of Diablo III the way it was in DII. We like that getting the best items is more of a treasure hunt, where finding and slaying those champion packs is what drives players to adventure through the levels. It's also a good thing that those are thrilling and difficult fights once you find them. Sometimes they're brutal, but this is Diablo III on a difficulty titled 'Hell'. Sometimes brutal is okay.

3) Act Bosses: Seriously, the act bosses should not be easier than the elites/champions. The fact that this is currently the case is inexcusable.


Answered above.
05/21/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Simple Solution: Almost all melee activated abilities should have a passive defensive included in the core ability. That is, while the wizard is forced to use an entire skill slot for Diamond Skin, the Barbarian (for example) should have diamond skin built into one of its abilities say... Revenge.


Monk and barbarian take 30% less damage base, than demon hunter, witch doctor or wizard. The melee classes also have passives and abilities which provide significant defensive bonuses.

2) Elites/Champions: The biggest problem here is not how hard they hit, but the fact that Blizz did not institute a way to avoid the damage like they did with the Act bosses. For example. Why can the "Jailer" automatically encase everyone without missing but Diablo seems to suffer from Down's syndrome when trying to trap people?


Because those fights are where you'll generally score the best loot, they are also intended to be some of the most challenging experiences in the game.

We didn't want 'boss farming' to become the goal of Diablo III the way it was in DII. We like that getting the best items is more of a treasure hunt, where finding and slaying those champion packs is what drives players to adventure through the levels. It's also a good thing that those are thrilling and difficult fights once you find them. Sometimes they're brutal, but this is Diablo III on a difficulty titled 'Hell'. Sometimes brutal is okay.

3) Act Bosses: Seriously, the act bosses should not be easier than the elites/champions. The fact that this is currently the case is inexcusable.


Answered above.


You replaced boss farming with elite pack farming. People arw just using wp to areas with caves that always have champs..how did this fix..or even change the problem. You just replaced one with another..but its essentially the exact same thing.
Edited by Rydis#1130 on 5/21/2012 11:17 AM PDT
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05/21/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Rydis
You replaced boss farming with elite pack farming. People arw just using wp to areas with caves that always have champs..how did this fix..or even change the problem. You just replaced one with another..but its essentially the exact same thing.


So you're saying that farming both bosses and elite packs is not effective in earning gear?

That they have completely replaced the reason for farming bosses?

Inferno elite mob packs are tough. But I get so pissy at them that I can't just let 10+ wipes go to waste. I'm going to kill it and damn it if my gear breaks before they do, and I'll get loot to boot. Then I'll kill the boss and get more loot.

The ability and allure to do both is intended.
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Edited by Practical#1393 on 5/21/2012 11:21 AM PDT
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05/21/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Simple Solution: Almost all melee activated abilities should have a passive defensive included in the core ability. That is, while the wizard is forced to use an entire skill slot for Diamond Skin, the Barbarian (for example) should have diamond skin built into one of its abilities say... Revenge.


Monk and barbarian take 30% less damage base, than demon hunter, witch doctor or wizard. The melee classes also have passives and abilities which provide significant defensive bonuses.

2) Elites/Champions: The biggest problem here is not how hard they hit, but the fact that Blizz did not institute a way to avoid the damage like they did with the Act bosses. For example. Why can the "Jailer" automatically encase everyone without missing but Diablo seems to suffer from Down's syndrome when trying to trap people?


Because those fights are where you'll generally score the best loot, they are also intended to be some of the most challenging experiences in the game.

We didn't want 'boss farming' to become the goal of Diablo III the way it was in DII. We like that getting the best items is more of a treasure hunt, where finding and slaying those champion packs is what drives players to adventure through the levels. It's also a good thing that those are thrilling and difficult fights once you find them. Sometimes they're brutal, but this is Diablo III on a difficulty titled 'Hell'. Sometimes brutal is okay.

3) Act Bosses: Seriously, the act bosses should not be easier than the elites/champions. The fact that this is currently the case is inexcusable.


Answered above.


So you made bosses easier than elite mobs JUST so people won't farm bosses?

I lolled. It's just so sad that blizzard couldn't tweak the bosses between difficulties. Just ;azy more hp more damage.
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Also how can you farm something that what I've seen on hell mode alone 2 shots me and I'm level 55 act 1 and the elites destroy me


Because those fights are where you'll generally score the best loot, they are also intended to be some of the most challenging experiences in the game.

We didn't want 'boss farming' to become the goal of Diablo III the way it was in DII. We like that getting the best items is more of a treasure hunt, where finding and slaying those champion packs is what drives players to adventure through the levels. It's also a good thing that those are thrilling and difficult fights once you find them. Sometimes they're brutal, but this is Diablo III on a difficulty titled 'Hell'. Sometimes brutal is okay.


I see a serious issue with this. You seem to be forgetting that the process of going through an entire Act, heck even a single quest, also involves skipping through lines and lines of dialogue, simply running several hundred yards to get to where the enemies are at and possibly having to watch the same cutscene again you've already witness 328 times.

I honestly don't see how trying to direct people to something else is a good way to go, instead you should just increase the options available to the player and allow them to choose what they prefer rather than restrict them. If people were farming bosses over and over in D2 there was a reason for it (and people did lots of Pit Runs as well anyway) - part of that was easy drops but another part was because the boss fights didn't involve spending 80% of your time moving your character from point A to point B except through one or two floors of a dungeon. In addition to that, it felt more fun and relaxing.

If you wanted people to progress through Acts more then you should've simply added incentive there rather than also taking away from boss farming. It feels like in the process of trying to direct people away from that you forgot to consider all the reasons behind why they did it in the first place.

3) Act Bosses: Seriously, the act bosses should not be easier than the elites/champions. The fact that this is currently the case is inexcusable.


Answered above.


I don't think it is, actually. You've explained why within the constrains of your design decisions but not actually explained those design decisions. How on Earth does it make sense for a randomly spawning champion enemy to be more powerful than the Final Boss of the game and drop better loot? I don't think I need to draw a picture to illustrate how counter-intuitive that is.

This design choice goes hand-in-hand with D3's loot system, where like we're seeing random champions become more powerful than main bosses we're seeing Rares and Magics outshine Legendaries - seriously, did you guys make this game in Ipsen's Castle or something? (cookie to anyone who gets the FFIX reference).
Edited by Aqueous#2403 on 5/21/2012 11:27 AM PDT


You replaced boss farming with elite pack farming. People arw just using wp to areas with caves that always have champs..how did this fix..or even change the problem. You just replaced one with another..but its essentially the exact same thing.


You do realize he just explained WHY they want you farming elites. A boss is a guaranteed spot everytime. Elite packs are everywhere, Caves, in the open, in dungeons, etc. This is their solution to getting you to participate in more content.

It is not a PROBLEM. Your solution is what? Make a different game? This is Diablo III, Not Rydis' Dream Game.
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05/21/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Monk and barbarian take 30% less damage base, than demon hunter, witch doctor or wizard. The melee classes also have passives and abilities which provide significant defensive bonuses.


You may wish to consider increasing this. Perhaps to 50 or 60 percent.

Just make being in Inferno give melee another buff of % damage reduction.
Edited by Ahlen#1984 on 5/21/2012 11:23 AM PDT
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05/21/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Pwnfessor
You do realize he just explained WHY they want you farming elites. A boss is a guaranteed spot everytime. Elite packs are everywhere, Caves, in the open, in dungeons, etc. This is their solution to getting you to participate in more content.


Well, it's also completely random. You never know when you're going to run into an elite mob pack.

So when you do, it needs to be challenging and the rewards need to be parallel to that challenge. It's fun that way. Bosses will always be there waiting in a room. Elite mob packs are the treasure hunts! :D
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Edited by Practical#1393 on 5/21/2012 11:23 AM PDT
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05/21/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Monk and barbarian take 30% less damage base, than demon hunter, witch doctor or wizard.


They take far more than 30% unavoidable damage over ranged classes by virtue of being melee. There's only just so much kiting one can do as a melee class before asking themselves why they're playing a melee class instead of something that can DPS and kite at the same time.
Edited by Corrock on 5/21/2012 11:24 AM PDT
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I do think you should have had bosses give better loot--but not even spawn at all until some percentage of the elites on the level have been dispatched.
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I understand Blizzard's logic on this one - but it seems like a half thought out process, because as its pointed out, why change it at all?

When the reason is, "Just so you'd go farm Y instead of X."

I'd love to have sat in on that brainstorming meeting.
05/21/2012 11:20 AMPosted by Practical
You replaced boss farming with elite pack farming. People arw just using wp to areas with caves that always have champs..how did this fix..or even change the problem. You just replaced one with another..but its essentially the exact same thing.


So you're saying that farming both bosses and elite packs is not effective in earning gear?

That they have completely replaced the reason for farming bosses?

Inferno elite mob packs are tough. But I get so pissy at them that I can't just let 10+ wipes go to waste. I'm going to kill it and damn it if my gear breaks before they do, and I'll get loot to boot. Then I'll kill the boss and get more loot.

The ability and allure to do both is intended.
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Im saying in d2 people ran to the boss..kill get loot..repeat. they didnt want this in d3..so they had champs and elites have best drops. So now people go to a well known place..go to cave..kill chsmps..leave and restart. So..how is that any different? They replaced one method of farming with another..in which you do the same exact thing. Its now again to going to kill meph..diablo or baal. Except now you stop after the required elited and start over. They didnt fix or change anything.
05/21/2012 11:22 AMPosted by Ahlen
Monk and barbarian take 30% less damage base, than demon hunter, witch doctor or wizard. The melee classes also have passives and abilities which provide significant defensive bonuses.


You may wish to consider increasing this. Perhaps to 50 or 60 percent.


There is no need to increase it. As a monk I can use Mantra of Evasion for 10% dodge buff for my party. I then can use Passive Skill Sixth Sense to increase my dodge % by 30% of my critical hit chance. I believe there is one more way as well. The damage reduction + dodge is fine as far as monk is concerned. I can also pair these abilities with Seize the initiative which will increase my armor by 100% OF MY DEX!

The game is not broken. Look at your skills and gear according to them.
Bunch of 'cop out' answers from the blue.
Edited by Khang#1228 on 5/21/2012 11:26 AM PDT
I'm sorry Dexxarri, but did you guys even experiment in inferno mode with melee classes before releasing the game? Melees are FORCED into going pure tank, or we get 2 shot, so I don't understand why barbarians or monks even have their cool offensive abilities and passives, as we have absolutely no opportunity to use them beyond nightmare. You may as well just take the aspect of dual wielding and using 2-handers away from melees, and re-work all their skills to just make them pure tanks. That 30% damage reduction that melee's have doesn't do anything.
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