Diablo® III

Simplistic Item System Analysis!

Before you read, I will say I enjoy Diablo III, but it could be so much better with a few simple game mechanic changes.

Here is my issue:

------THE ITEM SYSTEM------

From level 1-50 Normal, Nightmare, Early Hell Mode, you get to find random loot and equip what you feel makes your character better. Even though the item system is very bland and boring, these levels gave you options.

From 50-60 and beyond, you are then stuck building either full glass cannon or full defense. This becomes more and more obvious when you reach inferno and a requirement when you get to Act 2.

The game's item system goes from completely random and using what you want to requiring an item to have Vitality, Armor, Str/Dex/Int, All Resists, Single Resists...

-----HEAR ME OUT!-----

This isn't even the entire issue. Let's say you get THE BEST gear. Currently that means rolling perfect all resists, vitality, armor, str/dex/int, single resists... Does this make clearing the game more fun? NO!

The item system in general, being so simplistic, is just bland and doesn't give you much motivation to farm better gear. You are literally farming for 10 more all resists and 15 more vitality.

-----Diablo II comparison-----

Diablo II did it's job in surpassing Diablo I. It took the random magic item system and took it to a new level. Adding sets, uniques, runewords, rares... This wasn't the only thing. Diablo II had FUN items that made you powerful.

Examples of Diablo II items:

Item #1

Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
+40% Increased Attack Speed
+240-270% Enhanced Damage (varies)
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
25% Chance of Open Wounds
+3 To Werebear
+3 To Lycanthropy
Prevent Monster Heal
+25-40 To Strength (varies)
+10 To Energy
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5 Charges)

Item #2

10% Chance To Cast Level 9 Tornado On Striking
+20% Faster Run/Walk
+40% Increased Attack Speed
+15% Faster Hit Recovery
+120-160% Enhanced Damage (varies)
-50% Target Defense
+50 To Attack Rating
Hit Blinds Target
+1 To Light Radius
Level 13 Twister (127 Charges)

Item #3

20% Chance to Cast Level 18 Venom When Struck
12% Chance To Cast Level 15 Hydra On Striking
Level 14 Holy Fire Aura When Equipped
+360 Defense
+230 Defense Vs. Missile
+3-5 To All Attributes (varies)
+0.375-37.125 To Strength (Based on Character Level)
Increase Maximum Mana 5% (Armor Only)
+50 To Mana (Shields Only)
+5% To Maximum Lightning Resist
Damage Reduced by 7

Example of Diablo III end game items:

Item #1

Rare Two-Handed Axe

272-659 Damage
+23% Damage
125 Vitality
129 Strength
Increased Attack speed by 23%

Item #2

Rare Boots

175 Vitality
157 Dexterity
12% Movement Speed
68 Resistance to all Elements
30 Fire Resistance
Regenerate 175 HP per second

------Where this is going?------

Diablo III just doesn't have any items that are fun and that make you want to farm them. Tweaking a few legendaries and sets isn't going to help the issue.

The issue is that the game requires you to get vitality, all resists, str/dex/int, armor.... But even if it didn't have that requirement, there isn't really much else.

It's missing:

Chance on hit
Chance on being hit
Auras on items
Re-animate when monster killed
Flavor Stats

------ How to solve the problem?-----

Take what Diablo II did with items and step it up to the next level! (What we wanted in a 3rd Diablo game)

Step 1: Tune inferno in a way that it doesn't require you to have mega defense. Diablo is about customization, not stacking defense. IF someone wants to be defensive, fine... But it shouldn't be required.

Step 2: Add a boat load of flavor stats, chance on hit, chance on being hit, re-animate on monster kill. Make them more powerful than Diablo II, so that you can build around fun stats and it will work in inferno.

Examples of some item properties:

-15% Chance on hit to launch a meteor on the monster and hit all enemies within 12 yards for 65% weapon damage.

-10% chance on champion kill to summon an angel to fight for you. Angel does 100% weapon damage, heals you and your party members, and lasts until dead. (Defense stats scale with your hero)

-5% chance on monster kill to re-animate as a ghostly militiaman. Deals 50% weapon damage and casts shield charge (Stuns for 1.5 seconds), max of 5 miltiamen.

-10% chance on hit to release a burst of energy within 20 yards which heals all allies, re-animated, pets, minions by 5% of maximum health.

-35% chance on monster kill to give you 5% MF and 5% gold find for 2 minutes. Stacks up to 20 times.

-Your attacks cause you to gain 15% movement speed for 5 seconds.

**** This is just an example, you can literally develop millions, why not? ****

Continued below
Edited by Raserei#1287 on 6/7/2012 4:28 PM PDT
CONTINUED!


------ How to implement such a change without changing the current system much?------

Currently, rares can spawn with 4-6 random affixes. Keep this system... When a rare drops, it can spawn with 4-6 random affixes BUT on top of spawning with 4-6 random affixes, give ALL rare items a chance to spawn with flavor stats that DO NOT IMPACT THE AFFIX ROLLS.

For example:

Rare boots w/o flavor stats

160 Vitality
180 Intellect
12% Movement Speed
50 All resists
30 Fire Resist
175 Regenerate HP per second

Rare boots w/ flavor stats

160 Vitality
180 Intellect
12% Movement Speed
50 All resists
30 Fire Resist
175 Regenerate HP per second
*15% chance on monster kill to re-animate as the cow king. Deals 100% weapon damage, casts whirlwind which deals 130% weapon damage to all enemies, and whenever you kill a monster when the cow king is alive, he will moo and a cow minion will be summoned which deals 25% of weapon damage. (You can literally create your own cow level with this. This is 2012, not 1998, we have the tools and ability to create epic things. The item system in Diablo III is far from epic. It's a step back from Diablo II.)

Just go all out. This is 2012. Back when D2 hit and WoW hit, there weren't many games of that type. This made them feel even more epic, add to that being a Blizzard title. In 2012, there are dozens of action-RPG's, yet none of them have came close to Diablo II. Why? Because they didn't step it up. They literally took formula X and applied formula X. They didn't really take it to the next level. We want to see formula XXXXXX, take it to a new level. I have faith...
Edited by Raserei#1287 on 6/7/2012 12:45 PM PDT
No changes to inferno! Ever!

Lol, blizzard already said they were nerfing inferno in patch 1.0.3 - so don't worry. You can post another QQ thread after the patch.


You didn't read my post. That isn't even close to what I'm saying here.
No changes to inferno! Ever!

Lol, blizzard already said they were nerfing inferno in patch 1.0.3 - so don't worry. You can post another QQ thread after the patch.


Basically he wants items to grant cross class abilities, and other strange procs. There is merit to this, but most of the rest of the difference between D2 and D3 items is simply the number of affixes that could occur on the same item. Right now we get what, 6? His examples had about 11.

I personally would not want to see any form of charges appear on items, I hate charges with a burning passion...unless they are rechargeable I guess - but meh.

We do have some procs already such as fear, blind, freeze, etc...but perhaps these only occur on weapons. It would be interesting at least to see these procs on armor, but perhaps working logically in the reverse fashion - IE when you are hit.

Any way - there is always the expansions, which is a likely thing for them to start adding there.
Edited by StormWalker#1657 on 6/7/2012 12:19 PM PDT
Like the idea, but not the examples obviously balance issues would arise from some of those, but very good idea for making truly "rare" and awesome items.
No changes to inferno! Ever!

Lol, blizzard already said they were nerfing inferno in patch 1.0.3 - so don't worry. You can post another QQ thread after the patch.


Basically he wants items to grant cross class abilities, and other strange procs. There is merit to this, but most of the rest of the difference between D2 and D3 items is simply the number of affixes that could occur on the same item. Right now we get what, 6? His examples had about 11.

I personally would not want to see any form of charges appear on items, I hate charges with a burning passion...unless they are rechargeable I guess - but meh.

We do have some procs already such as fear, blind, freeze, etc...but perhaps these only occur on weapons. It would be interesting at least to see these procs on armor, but perhaps working logically in the reverse fashion - IE when you are hit.

Any way - there is always the expansions, which is a likely thing for them to start adding there.


We have welfare chance on hit.

1% chance to fear, stun, or chill? And you factor in inferno, these effects probably last a split second. It's hardly worth wanting.

The basis of my post in one sentence is this:

Diablo III's item system is so simplistic, it leaves no desire for you to actually farm for end game items because the end game items are merely any item, with just a few more stats. (Which is very reminiscent of an MMORPG, namely, World of Warcraft, which I played for 6 years. I played WoW for X reasons and I played Diablo 2 for Y reasons. It just feels like Diablo III carries to much from WoW and this is a Diablo title, doesn't work for me.)
Edited by Raserei#1287 on 6/7/2012 12:31 PM PDT
06/07/2012 12:24 PMPosted by deanimator
Like the idea, but not the examples obviously balance issues would arise from some of those, but very good idea for making truly "rare" and awesome items.


Thanks. My examples were literally spat out in 15 seconds, it's just to really show what "could be". We just need more stats and more options. Right now, our option is:

Vitality
All Resists
Armor
Single Resists
X
X

The X and X are 2 bonus stats... We can roll a 6 property rare and get our needed stats and then get 2 whatever stats that can be anything we want. The problem is that the "anything we want" is not there. What do we want? Bonus regen? Gold pickup radius? There are just no flavor stats... There are no items that make you say, OMG! I want to make a build with this item and that item. (Like a D2 player that plans out an aura stacking build on items)
agreed with the loot being just boring stat stacking.
also the fact they made it too difficult to legitimately advance your gear later on because the implementation of the auction house is pathetic.
agree with this man would give the game more depth and not just like WoW were you go for a *BiS which there should NOT be on diablo!!!!

*Best In Slot ( well known WoW term )
I pretty much agree. I'm working, slowly, through Act II inferno and am realizing that the excitement and rewarding nature of seeing rare drops is so greatly diminished. I now know that 90% of the time it is just the equivalent of a large pile of gold (that takes up inventory space...), 9% of the time I might be able to sell it for a couple extra thousand on AH, and 1% of the time (maybe) it is a slight, very incremental increase over what I have, or worth enough on AH to get me something that is.

Until ilvl 63 items start dropping in places I can actually find them (very, very rarely) I can go a couple of nights without really feeling like I've done much to improve my situation. A couple 100k gold isn't much when anything worth getting is millions.

If they can't break their drop system for risk of losing profits on RMAH, then yes, at least make fun drops. Give me a reason, any reason, to stop doing butcher/maghda runs over and over. Let me switch out inferno gear to run around with friends in Hell and spawn some ridiculous situations with goof % on hit abilities and things.
The way Blizzard changes things is if they see a trend in a specific subject on the forum. That is the only way they take feedback from the forum. I am trying to get this thread read and replied upon by more players until maybe it becomes once of those 20 page threads and then finally a game developer might read it.

I'm not bragging, claiming anything, or trying to be rude to anyone. I'm just giving my honest opinion after being a 12+ year Blizzard gamer and having played WoW and Diablo I and II extensively.

One arguement can be "Well, Diablo II wasn't the game it is now at launch." True. But this is 2012, and they had 6+ years of development on D3 to test and play D3 behind close doors enough to know if D3 lived up to D2 standards. The sounds, music, art, pretty much everything around the actual item system and how it ties into combat is good. The item system is the current factor in losing replayability. If Diablo II had no ladder seasons, it wouldnt have mattered because going around on your truely epic character with all runewords which granted auras, mercenaries with uber items, and just killing hordes of monsters was fun. It was super easy when you had that gear but it was still fun. It was an ACTION - RPG. Action game meaning, like Final Fight, you kill stuff. RPG, meaning, we get stats and character customization. Diablo III doesnt feel like an Action RPG, it feels like a 4 player or sometimes single player MMORPG (Some call it auction house tycoon)
Posts: 16
Well said, I have enjoyed the game a lot so far, but now I'm at that end-game state, where I can farm A2, but do not have the damage to take out Belial, so I cannot advance any further... I have done close to 100 butcher runs and have not found 1 single item that is better than what I currently have, but some of these flavor affixes would be awesome, another example of what could be added (like ilvl63 items) is an extra passive slot of something of that sort, it would be an awesome way to improve the current situation, hoping 1.0.3 fixes some of these drop issues, and I would rather them keep it the same difficulty (yea upgraded damage is a !@#$% in multiplay, but with better gear drops you will BE able to handle the stuff a lot better) Also I am scared of the nerf to IAS because I am fully decked out on IAS, just need a better damage weapon is all.
Example of Diablo II meta game:

The entire game was a meta game. From the get go, you could find items a high level player wanted. There were no end game raids, until they added uber tristram, which was fun and it was optional.

Once you reach 80 or so, you go into "item find" mode. There were so many levels of being geared in Diablo II.

The thing is with Diablo II, there were a ton of items you would want. You can have some ultra uber gear equipped and steamroll hell and yet you still want certain items. Either for you or an alternate character. There were a ton of cool runewords, sets, uniques, charms...

Example of Diablo III meta game:

Level to 60, farm the absolute highest area you can. Look for items with vitality, str/dex/int, all resists, single resists, and then move onto the next highest area. Rinse and repeat. And I'll add that inferno mode feels like a WoW raid during every champion pack. Imagine Diablo II's "Uber Tristram" during every pull and to top that off, the reward is junk 95% of the time. In D2, Uber tristram yielded an end game unique charm for the hard work.

Randomly in the mix, find a load of useless rares, poorly rolled legendaries and sets, and sell them on the AH.

End of story. There are zero items in the game that make you want to farm even if you are able to clear everything. Fixing a few legendaries and sets won't fix the overall issue with items. The item game in Diablo III is super simplistic and boring. (And Diablo games are about finding items, therefore, the current meta game is extremely boring.)

Conclusion:

I am having more fun making level 1 characters and leveling them up in co-op. Why? You can wear any item you find and be "ok". It's fun going around doing random events and quests. I can save up money and deck out a low level character in legendaries because at those levels, the random junk rolls don't matter and it's something fun to work toward.

Farming inferno for 8 more resists and 15 more vitality is boring. On top of that, I can't even use the skills I want to farm inferno, I am forced to use X and Y defensive stats unless I wanna chain die to kill a champion.
Edited by Raserei#1287 on 6/7/2012 1:43 PM PDT
you sir are absolutely spot on. this is propably the 10th topic i see regarding these boring affixes, blizzard should have read it by now.
When people farm resplendent chests or treasure goblins, the truth behind it all, when they are seeking an "upgrade" to farm inferno is that what they are looking for is this:

Current Item:
45 Vitality
57 Strength
19 All Resists
23 Fire Resist

What they are looking for when they farm act 3 inferno chests/goblins:

100+ Vitality
100+ Strength
50+ All Resists
30+ Single Resist
2 Random properties.

So if you were to currently put a label on useful items in Diablo III end game, here it is.

This is the bread and butter of an item, if it doesn't have this, vendor, salvage, or sell it.

X Vitality
X Str/Dex/Int
X All Resist
X Single Resist

The 2 extra properties that can roll are Diablo III's "Customization".

To be sarcastic:

"Hey bro, I'm wearing a vitality, dex, all resist, fire resist, life regen item. Im using a life regen build bro."

Where the extra 1-2 properties are your "outside" build because the other stats are your bread and butter.

Diablo 2 was like a slot machine with 30 different kinds of fruit. (Nearly impossible to ever be perfect. ALWAYS an item hunt. So many items that you wanted to search for them even if you had great items)

Diablo 3 is like a slot machine with 4 fruits. Vitality fruit, str/dex/int fruit, all resist fruit, and single resist fruit. (You get these 4 fruits and you can finally move on to the next act of inferno where you will match up these fruits until finally, you get the ultimate fruit combo to clear Act 4 inferno. But then there is no more fruit to farm because the slot machine only has 4 stats.)
Edited by Raserei#1287 on 6/7/2012 1:57 PM PDT
Posts: 75
Blizzard should just hire Brother Laz, seeing as how he pretty much hit the nail on the head for what we'd look for in terms of end game content.
*signs

A shame that Blizzard, as proven, is probably not listening (oh they do sort of listen, but they seem to only half listen, and the truly intelligent pieces of proof that they have majorly screwed up, like this one, will likey go ignored. They claim they are working on fixing the items, but they can and will only do so much, and some of their solution may be extremely backward I'm guessing, if past "decisions" are any indication).
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