Diablo® III

KEY drops should NOT

Organs should have a 100% chance at a lower MP level than 10.

Keys should be random at all MP levels, with an increased chance per level, but still random at MP10.


I disagree...This would cause players to just farm keys in upper MP levels then change Monster Power Level to 1 for boss kills.
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i still cant acess the PTR beucase of error 300007 however i think MP should effect key drops however it should NOT effect organ drops. organ drops should be an 100% chance just like they were in diablo 2 LOD.
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10/02/2012 01:16 PMPosted by acrimony
Why reward bad players with more incentive to influence a game that has been nerfed again and again and again just to meet their disability requirements?


Why reward elitist snobs who believe they are what the world revolves around? We are bad players ( in your skewed opinion ) because either,
1. we don't play 10 hours a fkn day or
2. we refuse to spend hundreds and now actually thousands of dollars in the the RMAH.

Bottom line is Blizzard stated they did not want it to feel like we HAVE to play in the higher MP levels, making it a 10 times better chance to get the damn drop makes it definitely feel like you have to play at MP 10.
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Make the keys work only in the ML they were found. You may as well add achievements because you clearly want people to be playing at ML10 if I can't find a key in a1 ML0 after 10 kills.
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10/02/2012 01:41 PMPosted by tehJBE
Make the keys work only in the ML they were found. You may as well add achievements because you clearly want people to be playing at ML10 if I can't find a key in a1 ML0 after 10 kills.


That would just complicate a system that doesn't need to be changed. Of course you didn't find a key, keys do not drop in Monster Power Level 0.
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key drops should NOT be effected by monster level. people who CHOOSE to play at whatever level they choose, should NOT be rewarded or punished for their choice. give them each about a 10-20% chance of dropping, no matter the difficulty.

Also keys and organs should be TRADEABLE, let people have fun and play the game, and let the AH work as a gold sink, which is drastically needed.


Already opened a Thread about this on the German Forums few days back...no Blue Response yet however.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/de/forum/topic/5492390340?page=1

I am wondering if the Communication between the EU - US Team is even working.
There are a hell lot of friggen nice Ideas which doesnt receive any Kind of response.

Back to Topic...The Big Problem is:
It doesnt matter if you play MP1 or MP9...the Drop is always gonna be RNG.
You can play MP9 and have bad luck even 10 times in a Row.

While on the other hand on MP10 you get a guranteed 100% drop.

What does this mean exactly?

People gonna try to cheese the hell outta MP10.
And this shouldn't be the whole point behind the Monsterpower System.
People should play on the Monsterpower Level they actually can handle with the gear/skill set they prefer to play.
It also contradicts the entire Idea of creating a wider range of playable builds along the classes, because everybody gonna feel forced to somehow play MP10 with the "cookiecutter build of the day" for the sake of guranteed quest/ring drops...and they gonna use every possible way to manage that.

Make the drops RNG for all Monsterlevels, problem solved.

The Uberpro doesnt care if he gets the Ring first day on MP10... or MP1.

The Low/Medium equipped players... even the better equipped players not gonna have this Luxus.

And no, i am not crying out for a first-day Ring, i am crying out for fairness to everybody.

Also Blizzard, please rethink your Handling with the Wizard Class.

What about :

* Ray of Frost
* Arcane Torrent
* Disintegrate
* Slow Time
* Wave of Force
* Ice Armor
* Storm Armor
* Mirror Image

Is there actually a Wizard using those Skills?
You serious need to overhaul the entire Class to make it viable, replace / rework entire Skills.
Make em more powerful and fun...do not just nerf the hell out of the stuff that actually works.
Reducing 5 Arcanepower here, and increasing 10% weapondamage there doesnt cut it!

Otherwise we all gonna play Barbar Patch 1.05... or quit completly.

To me the current 1.05 PTR build is a huge letdown, and i dunno really if i continue playing if it goes live like that.

best regards
a EU Wiz
Edited by Xeno#2262 on 10/2/2012 4:26 PM PDT
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2 quick points that have been stated many times I'm sure.

1.) Guranteeing drops at ML 10 seems counterintuitive to the "we want people to play at their own level" idea. Not too bothered by it but it seems wrong.

2.) I've done the Uber bosses 3 times, 2 at ML 3 and 1 at ML 4. Both at NV5 and nothing dropped to make the ring. I haven't played t he PTR since. Translation, If i don't get anything for hours and hours of gameplay I don't want to play.

With that being said, I don't know if it needs to be guranteed drop but certainly should be raised.
Edited by Farva#1878 on 10/2/2012 2:42 PM PDT
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Good Idea would be something like this :

MP1 = 30% drop
MP2 = 35% drop
MP3 = 40% drop
MP4 = 45% drop
MP5 = 50% drop
MP6 = 55% drop
MP7 = 60% drop
MP8 = 65% drop
MP9 = 70% drop
MP10 = 75% drop

RNG stays RNG, and people playing MP10 still have the best chance on Quest/Key Drops.
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09/26/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Lylirra
Did know ML affected this. Source?


Currently, both the keys and the demonic organ pieces (Vengeful Eye, Devil's Fang, and Writhing Spine) have higher chances to drop in higher MP levels, all the way up to 100% in MP10.

I don't want to weigh in on the current argument of whether or not drop chances should be affected by Monster Power level just yet. Obviously, we think it's a good idea and worth trying out, but if you feel differently, then I'd definitely like for you to continue discussing your thoughts on that topic. If you don't like it, tell us why. (Or, if you DO like it, be sure to weigh in too.)

09/25/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Horus
I killed the act 3 keywarden on MP 10 once and the key didn't drop. (didn't have any NV stack though)


You'll need five stacks of NV in order for the keys and the demonic organ pieces to drop.

We felt this was a reasonable requirement, otherwise players could simply farm the keys in a lower MP, then set their game to MP10 and farm bosses for guaranteed drops. With the five stack, players will at least need to be able to kill monsters in that MP level in order to benefit from the increased organ drop chance.


Drop rate needs to be upp'ed some for the lower MP, Not 100% but maybe 20% more for each. Been trying for the stonefort key with 5 stacks and about 150mf before NV and still no luck. I dont mind the grind but somthing tells me we are gonna have to kill all these guys alot of times to even get a ring that fits us
Edited by Stonewall#2143 on 10/2/2012 3:17 PM PDT
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So - this sounds like stuff that normal mode players get to instantly enjoy and hardcore players never get to enjoy.

MP10 on Hardcore? Cmon. Does blizzard ever even imagine compromises between both game modes?
Unless new ideas coincidentally work in both modes, most of the times the implementation of new content is normal mode biased. What conclusions am I suppose to draw from this that wouldn't fall into the "money talks b/s walks" boat?
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10/02/2012 01:16 PMPosted by acrimony
Why reward bad players with more incentive to influence a game that has been nerfed again and again and again just to meet their disability requirements?


why reward those that expoited the hell out of the game early on, or some few who got lucky with major key drops to sell for their gear?

your right, lets keep rewarding those people, and let all the ones who have NOT gottten any breaks just get left farther behind, because OBVIOUSLY they all suck.
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Honestly, if you want loots easily just go play TL2 that game is perfectly built with player gratifications in mind and you can do w/e you want.

Even at MP 1 eventually you will get it, and at least it will come with a Primary stat of your choice + one super over power proc (as of now) that would easily make you able to farm higher MP.

If you spent more effort in this game, you get rewarded for it, please stop the "if you are better than me, you must have no life/exploited/RMAH/AH flip/doesn't play the exact same way I think is right" Stop the it's too hard if I can't do it, and it's too easy if I can do it. Also, anyone else that have different gaming experiences to me are either noobs or cheats.

I will never understand why people want end game content that's hard/interesting but also want it doable/requires as little effort as possible.

Yes grinding for it sucks, yes random property sucks, yes not able to trade it sucks, but hey the proc/exp would make it a mandatory inventory slot for many people, if you make everything trade-able then we effectively lose 1 ring slot for everyone. This is exactly what happens when you give out best in slot items (or close to) and make it 100% drop chance.

Don't you understand the implications of this? It's a really hard act to balance, on one hand people want to have instant fun/rewarded for playing (TL 2) on the other we want a stable economy with meaningful currency/items (D3's low drop rate). How to balance this is up to the developers, and that's why PTR exist, it's to test how these changes would affect people.
Do you want stuff to drop like candies? Then we will start complaining about how the top 0.005% rares don't drop for us like candies. Understand that most of us are all geared up relatively nicely already thanks to the AH, we are searching for that perfect rolls now, hence why people feel loots = crap.

Right now I like having the option of changing difficulties as I see fit, and there will be a speed/efficiency MP for everyone eventually. Diablo had always, always been about grinding for random loots, so why exactly are people worried that they have to kill Ubers multiple times? Did the small charm always drop? Yes, but is it always the perfect roll for your class? No. The charm is GOOD in most cases (and it doesnt' take an item slot on paper doll), that's why a 100% drop wouldn't be too bad, but the ring we are getting is GREAT and it's arguably a bis for the unique modifiers + high primary stat, that's why making this 100% AND trade-able would be silly.
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I think you should get an increased chance to get the item the higher the MP..

Nothing is stopping people from farming lower difficulties and STILL getting keys for bosses they probably won't ever be able to kill anyways.

It is kind of harsh to only guarantee the parts for the ring on MP10 only but w/e..

It would be optimal if blizz kept the Key drops the way they are..
BUT..
The crafting pieces off bosses should drop 100% on every difficulty past 5 or 6.
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10/02/2012 06:26 PMPosted by SlaX
Honestly, if you want loots easily just go play TL2 that game is perfectly built with player gratifications in mind and you can do w/e you want.


Nobody is asking for that.

MP1-9 is RNG
MP10 isnt

thats the problem.

Why would anyone run MP9, when you have the same RNG in MP1 (lesser chance, but still RNG)?

Why shouldnt people exploit the crap outta MP10, where you get the drops guranteed using broken cookiecuter builds and whatnot?

Handing out guranteed Loots in a RNG based Game is simply wrong, and to be honest...it shocks me that Blizzard is even considering doing this.
Edited by Xeno#2262 on 10/2/2012 7:22 PM PDT
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Why would anyone run MP9, when you have the same RNG in MP1 (lesser chance, but still RNG)?

Why shouldnt people exploit the crap outta MP10, where you get the drops guranteed using broken cookiecuter builds and whatnot?


- Because you get 90% chance of it dropping instead of 10%?

If you have a choice, of course you would go for higher MP for higher chances, that's simply progression of characters/efficiency. Unless you are terribly unlucky (or extremely lucky at MP1), 70~90% drop chance is always better than 10%.

Why would they not run MP10 only for 100%? Because they can't do it efficiently. For me on PTR, I could spend 10~20 minutes at MP 4 to grind 5NV + a try for key, or I could spend an hour banging my head against MP 10 to get that 100% drop, you have a choice here, people will pick whichever is more efficient, not whichever is 100%. How many people in the world would choose to work in a Mine for a lot of money vs sitting in the office for less money? You can't just look at the % chance of dropping, you have to factor in the fun/efficiently as well. MP gives you the ability to customize it to what you want.

-What exploit? It's a BOP ring. What is broken about cookie cutter build? Unless every single skills are equal, there will be a combination of skill that's more efficient than the rest.

You can not have a hard game without cookie cutter builds, unless you allow the player to be able to actively dodge 100% of the damage (i.e. skill based games, not gear/time).

Or you make the game easy so every single build works to some extend and are all efficient, quick example would be running Hell right now in Inferno viable gears, I can do whatever I want and it would still be fast/effecient, this illusion of choice + "Zomg I made a weird/unique build" is what made D2 so popular in the first place.
Edited by SlaX#1829 on 10/2/2012 7:30 PM PDT
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Agreed.
I will try all ways to play mP10 even if its not efficient but its 100% confirmed drop. Rather than playing mp9 which isn't 100% drop.
End of the day I know I will get the item at mp10, as compared to mp9...
Imagine u played mp9 for hours and finally fought the ubers but no drops.... Ouch
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09/25/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Horus
[quote]
though since i have heard of NO ONE that has NOT gotten a key drop on level 10, EVER, i would asssume its ML and not MF. which doesnt matter to me, NEITHER should factor into key drops.


I killed the act 3 keywarden on MP 10 once and the key didn't drop. (didn't have any NV stack though)


That the missing part of this whole post. People that go straight for the warden are never going to get a key drop. MP does give you 10% more of a chance but only with a full 5 stack. So on MP 10 with a 5 stack which is hard to do I know because I have done it. You are then guaranteed a key drop 100% of the time. If you can farm MP 10 effectively you should be rewarded with a key. I do notice on MP 5 groups of 3 only one gets the key, if it's 4 people only 2 get one.

I do think they should open MP games to the public, but then that creates a whole new issue of lechers in MP 10 games just for keys like they do for quest now. Simple solution is make vote kick actually work...
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10/02/2012 07:29 PMPosted by SlaX
- Because you get 90% chance of it dropping instead of 10%?


You kill the Mobs 20 times faster on MP1 with less of a repair bill?
10% chance on MP1? thats awsome to be honest.

My Gear is good enouth for MP7-8...even killed MP10 champs on PTR.

You know what i gonna do in MP1?
I one shot everything... 5 Mins per Key Run tops.

After i got 3 Machines, i gonna call up some Mighty Friends...and do the Bosses MP10.

Ring done... gg

WTS Uberboss MP10 Kills... 10 Million per Kill /pst
Edited by Xeno#2262 on 10/2/2012 8:04 PM PDT
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- Because you get 90% chance of it dropping instead of 10%?


You kill the Mobs 20 times faster on MP1 with less of a repair bill?
10% chance on MP1? thats awsome to be honest.

My Gear is good enouth for MP7-8...even killed MP10 champs on PTR.

You know what i gonna do in MP1?
I one shot everything... 5 Mins per Key Run tops.

After i got 3 Machines, i gonna call up some Mighty Friends...and do the Bosses MP10.

Ring done... gg

WTS Uberboss MP10 Kills... 10 Million per Kill /pst


okay 5 min per run, do you take in the fact that you will miss out on key drops 90% of the time? If probability holds you would average 1 key every 50 minutes with no added benefits to GF/MF. This would differ with everyone's experience obviously, you could have 3 key drops on first 3 tries, or never see it anyway, but you have higher chance of no drops.

Let's do a really crude math, I can do MP 4 @ 20 min per so 10 runs would take me 200 minutes and I will have 4 keys. 200/4 = 50 minutes, exactly the same as your one, but each of my run includes the possibilities of better drops from monsters due to higher MF and at the very least, increased GF. Again, this would be different for everyone again, I could get really unlucky and get nothing, but the chance of it is significantly lower.

I am going as far as to say that once you are at max speed and one shotting everything you are basically limited by the game as a whole(due to run speed and elite spawning points), it doesn't matter what items you get at MP1, you will always farm at (let's just set a random example of 2 min per clear), so having MP 1++ is the only way to feel character progressions by eventually making each MP level a 2 minutes clear. That's why, eventually it will be more efficient to play in higher and higher MP due to chracter progression, this is because there's a hard cap on drop chances.

-Getting friends to kill Bosses MP10 = good, selling the runs = good, how is selling the run any different to keys/organs being trade-able? Instead of relying on AH for anonymous trading, wouldn't it be way more fun to do it with other people anyway? I thought people want "the trade scenes" back? I would buy the runs for uber MP10, I mean why not?

Richies get richer? That's just how it is, if you don't' want to pay, keep farming at MP1 including the Ubers, if everything holds, you should get it on this probability ((1/10^3)^10)^3 (my math could be horrible). Though you will most likely have geared up enough to try on harder contents by then :P
Edited by SlaX#1829 on 10/2/2012 9:29 PM PDT
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Its not a gold sink if your giving gold to another player... the gold still exists. Gold sink means removing the gold from the game completely. Just saying. And I like bind on account on that item, makes you do the run your damn self. Makes it more meaningful and gives you a lot mroe to do.
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