Diablo® III

KEY drops should NOT

10/02/2012 09:27 PMPosted by SlaX
Let's do a really crude math, I can do MP 4 @ 20 min per so 10 runs would take me 200 minutes and I will have 4 keys. 200/4 = 50 minutes, exactly the same as your one, but each of my run includes the possibilities of better drops from monsters due to higher MF and at the very least, increased GF. Again, this would be different for everyone again, I could get really unlucky and get nothing, but the chance of it is significantly lower.


Yeah he has less gf/mf but he's killing a lot more elites per hour so he might finding more items and more gold than you.
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Given how the economy in this game is, items aare either worth crap tons of money or it's most likely vendor (thanks to increase drop rates/lower difficulty), so personally I will take higher MF over quality, of course if you can do both then great :D.

Like I said, it all goes down to personal experience at the end, you could argue that MF is totally useless because you found 5 legendaries a day on your non-MF character, while your 375 found nothing for 3 weeks. I could have killed 3 elite packs in 3 hours and get 3 great drops vs killing 300 elite packs in 3 hours and get 3 drops too. The list goes on and on.

All I am saying is, either you increase the chance of the affix rolling high, or you increase the amount of items you get, both methods are valid and invalid at the same time due to RNG.

But if you could clear a key run at max speed possible already, the ONLY way to make it more efficient is by increasing MP + improve your character so you could do higher MP at same max speed.

That's the appeal of each MP, efficiency. Why would you do MP 1 when you can clear MP 5 at the same speed?

So for him, if he can get a key every 50 min MP1, that means for him to do MP10 it will have to be cleared under 50min for it to be efficient. (MP 9 at 45, Mp 6 at 30min etc,) as soon as he found that sweet spot of MP/Drops he would stay there, and it could ONLY get better as your character progress.

So there's plenty of appeal for characters to play at various MP due to gear differences, but of course that's if probabilities holds 100% of the time.
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worst QQ thread ive ever seen...

THIS IS THE TYPE OF PEOPLE YOU ARE ASKING FEEDBACK FROM??:

hire some god damn people to play/test the game... your taking jobs away from people that need it + theres so much more retarded QQ than reliable feedback that this whole idea is a pointless sham.
Edited by Psycho#1237 on 10/2/2012 10:26 PM PDT
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^

somebody doesn't like MP 10..

I personally was farming Keys at 5 got them all except 1 i had to do 3 times.. prolly a lot faster than doing them all at MP 10 though. Just do what you can handle
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thats it! not even 1% of all players can farm mp10 and the time of farming on lower levels is completely useless if you wont get an organdrop.

you should make it more similar to diablo2. make the key droprate depending on mplevel, nv buff or mf, i dont care.to me, this farming can be hard and time intensive, just like in d2! but make the organdrop 100%, because if someone will spent hours and hours to farm the keys, then opens a gate, tries hard to kill the ubers and then doesnt get any reward for it (no sorry, some rare arent reward to me), he wont ever do it again.

conclusion:
-key drop like in d2, random but higher chance with higher mp level
-guaranteed organ drop (you need luck with portals anyway)

ps: dont make anything sellable! that is fine the way it is.
+1 this keys random/affected by mp. Organs 100%
Edited by Chaos#1650 on 10/3/2012 2:46 AM PDT
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10/02/2012 09:40 PMPosted by Camster
Yeah he has less gf/mf but he's killing a lot more elites per hour so he might finding more items and more gold than you.


Exactly.

10/03/2012 02:45 AMPosted by Chaos
+1 this keys random/affected by mp. Organs 100%


Basicly, i agree.
But why on Earth would anybody with enouth Gear even farm Keys ?
They just announce "WTS Uber Kills, 10Mio per Kill" in the Tradechannel...
And people would come...and bring you Machines and Gold.

The Organs you get as well for the Kills, so thats no Problem.

Or did you mean Organs across all MP Levels 100% drop?
Why would anyone even try MP10 Ubers then ?

10/02/2012 09:27 PMPosted by SlaX
I would buy the runs for uber MP10, I mean why not?


Why not? Do i really have to tell you?
What about Scammers?
This whole 100% drop thing opens up new Doors for Scamming
How can you be certain they really want to kill the Bosses for you, and not just take your Gold?

Like i wrote earlier -->

10/02/2012 06:50 PMPosted by Xeno
Handing out guranteed Loots in a RNG based Game is simply wrong, and to be honest...it shocks me that Blizzard is even considering doing this.
Edited by Xeno#2262 on 10/3/2012 4:30 AM PDT
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Yeah he has less gf/mf but he's killing a lot more elites per hour so he might finding more items and more gold than you.


Exactly.

+1 this keys random/affected by mp. Organs 100%


Basicly, i agree.
But why on Earth would anybody with enouth Gear even farm Keys ?
They just announce "WTS Uber Kills, 10Mio per Kill" in the Tradechannel...
And people would come...and bring you Machines and Gold.

The Organs you get as well for the Kills, so thats no Problem.

Or did you mean Organs across all MP Levels 100% drop?
Why would anyone even try MP10 Ubers then ?

I would buy the runs for uber MP10, I mean why not?


Why not? Do i really have to tell you?
What about Scammers?
This whole 100% drop thing opens up new Doors for Scamming
How can you be certain they really want to kill the Bosses for you, and not just take your Gold?

Like i wrote earlier -->

Handing out guranteed Loots in a RNG based Game is simply wrong, and to be honest...it shocks me that Blizzard is even considering doing this.


organ drop rate 100 % = i agree

Guarantied loot (i am talking about keys) is wrong

scammers yay easy gold...
Edited by HURRICANE#2539 on 10/3/2012 7:12 AM PDT
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key drops should NOT be effected by monster level. people who CHOOSE to play at whatever level they choose, should NOT be rewarded or punished for their choice. give them each about a 10-20% chance of dropping, no matter the difficulty.

Also keys and organs should be TRADEABLE, let people have fun and play the game, and let the AH work as a gold sink, which is drastically needed.


I dont really have an issue with the key drops being based on monster level BUT i do have an issue with everything being acct locked. trading/selling/buying is what diablo is...
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Harder difficulty = better rewards. It's a good idea.
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Good Idea would be something like this :

MP1 = 30% drop
MP2 = 35% drop
MP3 = 40% drop
MP4 = 45% drop
MP5 = 50% drop
MP6 = 55% drop
MP7 = 60% drop
MP8 = 65% drop
MP9 = 70% drop
MP10 = 75% drop

RNG stays RNG, and people playing MP10 still have the best chance on Quest/Key Drops.


This would be a good compromise no guarantee which should not exist on a RNG game and still a decent chance to get a key on MP1. The way it is now it will take days to get 1 key at MP1 ( not everyone can play for 10 hours a day ) and how many do you need? dozens. I do not want everything instantly and for no work that would be to easy, but at the same time I don't want 1 chance a month at an item either. There needs to be some balance here.

Mind you this still goes against what they said was going to happen though.
Edited by Wamdoan#1100 on 10/3/2012 10:00 AM PDT
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Organs should have a 100% chance at a lower MP level than 10.

Keys should be random at all MP levels, with an increased chance per level, but still random at MP10.


I disagree...This would cause players to just farm keys in upper MP levels then change Monster Power Level to 1 for boss kills.


Jay and Wyatt said they don't want to make MP10 feel like a requirement in the PC Gamer Interview released on Sept. 22, 2012: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/22/diablo-3-patch-1-05-interview-with-jay-wilson-and-wyatt-cheng/

I was thinking along the lines of MP6-8.

And if MP10 merely has a chance to drop like the other monster power levels, no, people would be more efficient at the lower monster power levels. The new drop rates should be represented by this line graph: http://i.imgur.com/yI6qa.jpg

MP10 would become a truly optional power level, and you still get to keep the 100% chance for organs to drop. Again, MP6, 7, or 8, should start the 100% chance to drop for organs, and continue all the way to MP10.
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They way they have it setup now is fine for me. MP10 with 5 stacks on ubers is very difficult, fun, intense, and doable. Even with the best gear in the game, it's still challenging. If they make it 100% on any other difficulty then there is no point in going to MP10.

I think the dev team got it right on this one. Risk vs. reward is totally worth it.
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Good Idea would be something like this :

MP1 = 30% drop
MP2 = 35% drop
MP3 = 40% drop
MP4 = 45% drop
MP5 = 50% drop
MP6 = 55% drop
MP7 = 60% drop
MP8 = 65% drop
MP9 = 70% drop
MP10 = 75% drop

RNG stays RNG, and people playing MP10 still have the best chance on Quest/Key Drops.


This would be a good compromise no guarantee which should not exist on a RNG game and still a decent chance to get a key on MP1. The way it is now it will take days to get 1 key at MP1 ( not everyone can play for 10 hours a day ) and how many do you need? dozens. I do not want everything instantly and for no work that would be to easy, but at the same time I don't want 1 chance a month at an item either. There needs to be some balance here.

Mind you this still goes against what they said was going to happen though.


Actually, if you think about it, it should more look like this :

MP1 = 2,5% drop
MP2 = 3,5% drop
MP3 = 5% drop
MP4 = 9% drop
MP5 = 15% drop
MP6 = 22% drop
MP7 = 31% drop
MP8 = 43% drop
MP9 = 61% drop
MP10 = 75% drop

The Higher you play, the better the reward, but it should never reach 100%.
That simply contradicts the entire Idea behind RNG in Diablo.

(Curve shameless stolen from Klose on German Forum)
Edited by Xeno#2262 on 10/3/2012 12:10 PM PDT
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This would be a good compromise no guarantee which should not exist on a RNG game and still a decent chance to get a key on MP1. The way it is now it will take days to get 1 key at MP1 ( not everyone can play for 10 hours a day ) and how many do you need? dozens. I do not want everything instantly and for no work that would be to easy, but at the same time I don't want 1 chance a month at an item either. There needs to be some balance here.

Mind you this still goes against what they said was going to happen though.


Actually, if you think about it, it should more look like this :

MP1 = 2,5% drop
MP2 = 3,5% drop
MP3 = 5% drop
MP4 = 9% drop
MP5 = 15% drop
MP6 = 22% drop
MP7 = 31% drop
MP8 = 43% drop
MP9 = 61% drop
MP10 = 75% drop

The Higher you play, the better the reward, but it should never reach 100%.
That simply contradicts the entire Idea behind RNG in Diablo.

(Curve shameless stolen from Klose on German Forum)


though this drop rate u suggest equal to a much more frustrating factor for lower equiped players and godly eqipped players.

the drop rate should be 10 or higher for MP1 but at MP10 it should be 75-80 % or something like that
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... Does anyone know what the rate actually is? Sounds like there is a lot of assumption, but I believe all we know is that the chance is greater than 0% at MP1 and 100% at MP10. It seems logical that it's linear from 10% to 100%, but is there any confirmation of this at all?
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bring it back
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This is !@#$ so you need 5NV in order for organs to drop. What bollocks.
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mp1 = 10% chance to drop
mp2 = 20% chance to drop
mp3 = 30% chance to drop
etc
etc
etc
mp10 = 100% chance to drop

You can still get the key on Mp1 so stop crying
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So... assuming that it is 10% chance per MP level;
And you need 3 keys to have a chance at an organ;
And you need 3 organs to make the ring;
And you can't control which organ you're competing for

Expected Runs to get Organ 1:
1/(MP*0.1)*4

Expected Runs to get Organ 2:
1/(MP*0.1)*4*(3/2) ... You only have a 2/3 chance of getting an organ you didn't already have

Expected Runs to get Organ 3:
1/(MP*0.1)*4*3 ... You only have a 1/3 chance of getting an organ you didn't already have

So total expected runs to get a ring is:
1/(MP*0.1)*22

MP # Runs
1 220
2 110
3 73.3
4 55
5 44
6 36.7
7 31.4
8 27.5
9 24.4
10 22


Seem right? Or did I screw something up?

Note that this is expected. Meaning it's the average. Meaning that each person only has around 50% chance to get it in this many runs or less.
Edited by ztking#1754 on 10/5/2012 10:38 AM PDT
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Didnt read the whole thread, but I did act 1 MP1 didnt get the key, Did act 1 MP2 and got a Key.

2 runs low MP and got a key. My MF is 300base so 425 in MP at keywarden.

I think this is very acceptable for low MP levels, as I am also farming gear....the same gear that can be farmed on amy MP level, so i have = chance to upgrade/sell gear to farm a higher MP level.

You dont have to start at the top....im guessing people who are stuck farming MP1-2 with room to improve, will ultimately have more potential and enjoyable gametime, than someone who is able to start by clearing MP10. Where do they go from there? Sure they can farm Hellfire faster, but cant sell it. They can sell MP10 runs to make gold. But other than the increased MF, there drop rates will be the same as MP1.

Keep the Key/organ rate as is, it gives us something to work towards. A sense of progression
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