Diablo® III

KEY drops should NOT

My other big problem with MP10 requirements is that once again this game is 90% gear based. It's not like all I have to do is skill properly to succeed in MP10. Gear is 90% of the equation.
Edited by ChaosLeech#1406 on 9/26/2012 2:49 PM PDT
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One drops at a fixed rate... the other is dependent on MP. What is your argument again?


It still is a fixed rate, one for each MP level. But the drop rate has NOTHING to do with its ilvl, like you suggested.


Ahem.... Ilvl 63 items dropping is a fixed rate... I still don't see your argument.
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09/26/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Lylirra
Did know ML affected this. Source?


Currently, both the keys and the demonic organ pieces (Vengeful Eye, Devil's Fang, and Writhing Spine) have higher chances to drop in higher MP levels, all the way up to 100% in MP10.

I don't want to weigh in on the current argument of whether or not drop chances should be affected by Monster Power level just yet. Obviously, we think it's a good idea and worth trying out, but if you feel differently, then I'd definitely like for you to continue discussing your thoughts on that topic. If you don't like it, tell us why. (Or, if you DO like it, be sure to weigh in too.)

09/25/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Horus
I killed the act 3 keywarden on MP 10 once and the key didn't drop. (didn't have any NV stack though)


You'll need five stacks of NV in order for the keys and the demonic organ pieces to drop.

We felt this was a reasonable requirement, otherwise players could simply farm the keys in a lower MP, then set their game to MP10 and farm bosses for guaranteed drops. With the five stack, players will at least need to be able to kill monsters in that MP level in order to benefit from the increased organ drop chance.


Lol.. Gives players who have the best gear the most advantage still.. Drops are still crap in 1.05... How are we suppose to progress to ML 10 when we can't find gear to progress?? Blizzard keeps giving the exploiters from launch date the advantage while saying f u to those who played legit the whole time. Good job Blizzard.. I don't think I will return for 1.05.. Not unless the drops become much better then they are. I can only do ML 3 or 4 and get crap drops how am I suppose to get to ML 10 to get the keys? New content is being added but the problems in the game are not getting fixed. The current issues in the game should be a higher priority then new content.. Seriously how am I suppose to kill monsters in ML 10 with 66 mil hp when the highest dps weapon i have ever gotten is only 1065 dps??? The items should scale to the power of the monsters in the game, a ilvl63 weapons' lowest dps should be about 700-800 max being around 1500-1600. I get so many Ilvl 63 items under 400 dps that it is just sad. Fix the items before you add new content.!!!!!

Also Public games shouldn't be restricted to ML0.. i should be able to join a public game doing ML 5 or change the ML in game... There is no incentive of playing public games in the PTR. makes it soo boring!!
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My opinion is that I'm fine with keys having some rng on lower monster levels, so long as it isn't going to feel too repetitive. If you're going to need a 5 stack, I feel like it needs at least a 25% chance at level 1.

I think that an organ should be guaranteed when using the three keys to fight an uber boss. I'm assuming they are difficult, so they should reward you. When you're doing all this work for an organ, chances are you might not even get the last one you need, etc. I think that you should at least be guaranteed to get something for all the effort gathering the keys.

The rng on the ring has a lot of potential to be the best in slot ring or some crappy ring with a lot of experience and a main stat. People are going to want trifecta rings, which will likely be super rare, I myself will probably settle for a two out of three for a while, and I plan on that taking a while to achieve. The rng on the ring already makes this a long term grinding strategy because of that. People who plan to play multiple characters will want at least one good trifecta ring of each main stat.

Due to the rng on the ring, excessive rng on the process of making it would be very demotivational. It will already take a bit to farm the keys, and if you're going to fight a very difficult boss (or two) you should be guaranteed at least a random one of the three organs (even if you wind up with 8 of those organs and 0 of something else for a while.) Monster power can affect the loot drops of the bosses and give them a higher chance of dropping legendaries or something, but their main purpose should be intact and tangible.
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It still is a fixed rate, one for each MP level. But the drop rate has NOTHING to do with its ilvl, like you suggested.


Ahem.... Ilvl 63 items dropping is a fixed rate... I still don't see your argument.


You don't get it. You asked the question why MP affects drop rates of keys and organs but does NOT affect the droprate of other ilvl 63 items. So obviously you mixed common items with special items like keys and organs.
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This is a great system. It should be tiered. This gives people a reason to gear up for MP10. Otherwise, we'd have no incentive to farm 10. I think it is gracious of Blizz to make it 100% at MP10.
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09/26/2012 02:58 PMPosted by Mercurial
This gives people a reason to gear up for MP10.
It's not like people aren't trying, but RNG has a huge role in this. This system punishes bad luck.
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It still is a fixed rate, one for each MP level. But the drop rate has NOTHING to do with its ilvl, like you suggested.


Ahem.... Ilvl 63 items dropping is a fixed rate... I still don't see your argument.


The interview was talking about the general chance of ilvl63 loot. Go read it in context. The hellfire ring is an exception and they specifically said they did not want to give details on that. Context.
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09/26/2012 02:51 PMPosted by Jables


Currently, both the keys and the demonic organ pieces (Vengeful Eye, Devil's Fang, and Writhing Spine) have higher chances to drop in higher MP levels, all the way up to 100% in MP10.

I don't want to weigh in on the current argument of whether or not drop chances should be affected by Monster Power level just yet. Obviously, we think it's a good idea and worth trying out, but if you feel differently, then I'd definitely like for you to continue discussing your thoughts on that topic. If you don't like it, tell us why. (Or, if you DO like it, be sure to weigh in too.)



You'll need five stacks of NV in order for the keys and the demonic organ pieces to drop.

We felt this was a reasonable requirement, otherwise players could simply farm the keys in a lower MP, then set their game to MP10 and farm bosses for guaranteed drops. With the five stack, players will at least need to be able to kill monsters in that MP level in order to benefit from the increased organ drop chance.


Lol.. Gives players who have the best gear the most advantage still.. Drops are still crap in 1.05... How are we suppose to progress to ML 10 when we can't find gear to progress?? Blizzard keeps giving the exploiters from launch date the advantage while saying f u to those who played legit the whole time. Good job Blizzard.. I don't think I will return for 1.05.. Not unless the drops become much better then they are. I can only do ML 3 or 4 and get crap drops how am I suppose to get to ML 10 to get the keys? New content is being added but the problems in the game are not getting fixed. The current issues in the game should be a higher priority then new content.. Seriously how am I suppose to kill monsters in ML 10 with 66 mil hp when the highest dps weapon i have ever gotten is only 1065 dps??? The items should scale to the power of the monsters in the game, a ilvl63 weapons' lowest dps should be about 700-800 max being around 1500-1600. I get so many Ilvl 63 items under 400 dps that it is just sad. Fix the items before you add new content.!!!!!

Also Public games shouldn't be restricted to ML0.. i should be able to join a public game doing ML 5 or change the ML in game... There is no incentive of playing public games in the PTR. makes it soo boring!!


lol why shouldn't the best geared people have more advantages?
they worked for it.

if you want what they have, invest the time and play. if you want to be hardheaded and not used the AH, live with it. if you want to get rich, learn how to use the AH.

if your character isn't geared enough for MP10, then don't play it. you're not missing out on anything except higher chances of finding stuff. you can still find it. put in the time and you'll get there.

if you complain that you don't have the time, then don't play. diablo has always been a game that requires time and patience (or a lot of luck)
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Lol.. Gives players who have the best gear the most advantage still.. Drops are still crap in 1.05... How are we suppose to progress to ML 10 when we can't find gear to progress?? Blizzard keeps giving the exploiters from launch date the advantage while saying f u to those who played legit the whole time. Good job Blizzard.. I don't think I will return for 1.05.. Not unless the drops become much better then they are. I can only do ML 3 or 4 and get crap drops how am I suppose to get to ML 10 to get the keys? New content is being added but the problems in the game are not getting fixed. The current issues in the game should be a higher priority then new content.. Seriously how am I suppose to kill monsters in ML 10 with 66 mil hp when the highest dps weapon i have ever gotten is only 1065 dps??? The items should scale to the power of the monsters in the game, a ilvl63 weapons' lowest dps should be about 700-800 max being around 1500-1600. I get so many Ilvl 63 items under 400 dps that it is just sad. Fix the items before you add new content.!!!!!

Also Public games shouldn't be restricted to ML0.. i should be able to join a public game doing ML 5 or change the ML in game... There is no incentive of playing public games in the PTR. makes it soo boring!!


lol why shouldn't the best geared people have more advantages?
they worked for it.

if you want what they have, invest the time and play. if you want to be hardheaded and not used the AH, live with it. if you want to get rich, learn how to use the AH.

if your character isn't geared enough for MP10, then don't play it. you're not missing out on anything except higher chances of finding stuff. you can still find it. put in the time and you'll get there.

if you complain that you don't have the time, then don't play. diablo has always been a game that requires time and patience (or a lot of luck)


I guess you simply just ignored my profile.. It's all good. And just so you know, I have worked very hard for the gear I have, which is mediocre compared to the gear necessary to even dent ML10. And with drops still being 99.9% garbage it just isn't worth playing the game..
the Items just dont scale to the power of monsters like they should. Why should i farm for 200 hours just to find one upgrade?? I can just watch !@#$ instead and be a lot happier.
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fwiw, got key of terror and key of hate in a very small amount of time played on PTR on difficulty levels 3 to 5. I spent maybe 3 to 4 hours playing-- and that was just generically playing and not really focused on finding keys specifically.
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I guess you simply just ignored my profile.. It's all good. And just so you know, I have worked very hard for the gear I have, which is mediocre compared to the gear necessary to even dent ML10. And with drops still being 99.9% garbage it just isn't worth playing the game..
the Items just dont scale to the power of monsters like they should. Why should i farm for 200 hours just to find one upgrade?? I can just watch !@#$ instead and be a lot happier.


9k elite kills isn't much at all (i'm discounting most of your kills on other characters since they seem to have been played before 1.04). especially compared to people with 20k+ elite kills on a single character. my elite kills after 1.04 is very similar to yours (our paragons are pretty similar).

why should you HAVE be able to play MP10? you don't even have to. many people are doing just fine on MP3-6. this patch isn't meant to be a quick fix for everyone. it's meant for long time. if you can't reach MP10 now, who knows, maybe you'll be able to reach it later. rings/amulets are being buffed so current godly ones will come down rapidly in price. when better items are introduced, current items fall in price. these current items are good enough to faceroll up to MP5-6 no problem.

it seems you are not enjoying yourself playing this game. no point in playing a game with endless farming where items worth selling are scarce. just quit.
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09/26/2012 03:17 PMPosted by Emberos
fwiw, got key of terror and key of hate in a very small amount of time played on PTR on difficulty levels 3 to 5. I spent maybe 3 to 4 hours playing-- and that was just generically playing and not really focused on finding keys specifically.


Well that's 3-4 hours to get 2 out of 3 needed, that then gives you a chance to get the drop you need.

To give some perspective, I farmed the keys and did the event in MP 5 las night and today, the whole process took around 2,5-3 hours including building 5xNV prior to the event it self. The drops I got was 3 rares and 4 blues, no item for crafting the BoA ring nor anything interesting compared to killing champion packs out in the world.

While the ring has potential to be really good the time investment as a solo player just isn't worth it beyond getting mats for one ring to have the XP bonus while grinding out P100.
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I guess you simply just ignored my profile.. It's all good. And just so you know, I have worked very hard for the gear I have, which is mediocre compared to the gear necessary to even dent ML10. And with drops still being 99.9% garbage it just isn't worth playing the game..
the Items just dont scale to the power of monsters like they should. Why should i farm for 200 hours just to find one upgrade?? I can just watch !@#$ instead and be a lot happier.


9k elite kills isn't much at all (i'm discounting most of your kills on other characters since they seem to have been played before 1.04). especially compared to people with 20k+ elite kills on a single character. my elite kills after 1.04 is very similar to yours (our paragons are pretty similar).

why should you HAVE be able to play MP10? you don't even have to. many people are doing just fine on MP3-6. this patch isn't meant to be a quick fix for everyone. it's meant for long time. if you can't reach MP10 now, who knows, maybe you'll be able to reach it later. rings/amulets are being buffed so current godly ones will come down rapidly in price. when better items are introduced, current items fall in price. these current items are good enough to faceroll up to MP5-6 no problem.

it seems you are not enjoying yourself playing this game. no point in playing a game with endless farming where items worth selling are scarce. just quit.


Uhh My DH has over 200 hrs played in 1.04 with no upgrade finds. How is this ok?? Honestly I don't care about ML10. As i said in my original post they should have fixed the current issues in the game before adding in new content.. It should not take me over 200 hours to find an upgrade when my gear is mediocre. Everything my DH wears is bought off the GAH which is sad.
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hmm that's weird. you must have some really bad luck or something. i've found upgrades for my wiz and barb (i found lacunis with 90 str / 90 vit, nice bracer with 180 int/90 vit/62 AR/20% mf, and 4% melee reduction, pants with 2 sockets, 130 int, 160 vit, 60 ar, pants with 2 sockets, 150 int, 140 vit, 60 ar. those 4 items in the last 3 days along with 3-4 legendaries (2 of them being crappy butcher's sickles)

granted most of my gear is sniped from the auction house, i usually find dh/monk/barb gear more than wiz. and when i find upgrades for wiz gear it's for parts i'm not looking for (barely an upgrade) so i just sell it on the AH.
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09/26/2012 03:57 PMPosted by alkaiser
hmm that's weird. you must have some really bad luck or something.


That's the problem right there.
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If Blizzard is really serious about not requiring people to farm higher monster power levels and making this new event seem required all the more while not widening the gap between those who are already decked out and those who have been less fortunate with their drops, the AH, etc, then...

1. Key drop rates should be fixed at all levels of MP. Some characters already feel MP 10 is a breeze. These guys are likely sporting really uber equipment or have builds that have yet to be fully rebalanced. Rewarding them for farming MP10 with a 100% drop is just going to make them better while everyone else still struggles.

2. If you want people to stack NV to get a key drop, then make it so that the key has a really low base drop rate (I'll leave the exact number to Blizzard, but for example's sake)... let's say 10% chance. Each NV buff you get could increase this by 5%-7% for a max total of 35%-45%. That's a little more than a 1 in 3 chance, or a little less than half.

3. If you are worried about people farming keys in a lower MP and going to a higher MP to get uber bosses, then how about a simple solution: Each key/organ/etc. remembers the MP that it was obtained in. To let players experiment with their MP for a bit, let's say that if you have a key/organ, etc. It will work with things up to 1-2 MP levels higher (perhaps 8,9 and 10 would be an exception depending on how worried you are about this.) but the portal and resulting bosses you make would be the average of the monster power levels of the keys and organs used. (all 9, MP9, 1,3,2,2 = MP2, 1, 3, 5, 4 = wouldn't work, 5 and 4 are more than 2 above 1, etc.)

You are no longer forced to play on higher monster levels to reap the rewards of the new event. People who play on MP 10 get the same chance as people who play on MP 1-- the already elite won't necessarily progress any faster than those who still need to "gear up" they have the same chance as everyone else. It is fair especially if these MP10 uber bosses drop more rewarding loot than the MP1 bosses. Otherwise why would you be so worried about lower MP key farming? The higher MP players still get their better reward, but now they just get it at the same rate as the little guys.
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Where's the "give me all loot button" is all I'm hearing here...

Seriously. This whole conversation is "As soon as this patch hits, we want to be able to beat/complete/get everything in our first palythrough". I don't understand this mentality. They want to develop something that takes effort, not something handed to you on a silver platter.


Agreed.

I think higher MP = higher drop chance is a excellent idea, and REWARDS those who have put substantial time in the game.
This is supposed to be END GAME content, and should NOT be easily available to the average joe unless they are willing to put time in to do it.
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Where's the "give me all loot button" is all I'm hearing here...
Seriously. This whole conversation is "As soon as this patch hits, we want to be able to beat/complete/get everything in our first palythrough". I don't understand this mentality. They want to develop something that takes effort, not something handed to you on a silver platter.


Agreed.

I think higher MP = higher drop chance is a excellent idea, and REWARDS those who have put substantial time in the game.
This is supposed to be END GAME content, and should NOT be easily available to the average joe unless they are willing to put time in to do it.


A follow up on my post - as it stands now there is NO reward for putting extra time into this game, as the drops are so random that high MF makes little difference.
So I can kill a little faster than everyone, so what.

There needs to be a incentive to be better - and guaranteed drops for a process that will probably take LONGER on M10 than 2-3 times on M5 is a good start.
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My opinion is that I'm fine with keys having some rng on lower monster levels, so long as it isn't going to feel too repetitive. If you're going to need a 5 stack, I feel like it needs at least a 25% chance at level 1.

I think that an organ should be guaranteed when using the three keys to fight an uber boss. I'm assuming they are difficult, so they should reward you. When you're doing all this work for an organ, chances are you might not even get the last one you need, etc. I think that you should at least be guaranteed to get something for all the effort gathering the keys.

The rng on the ring has a lot of potential to be the best in slot ring or some crappy ring with a lot of experience and a main stat. People are going to want trifecta rings, which will likely be super rare, I myself will probably settle for a two out of three for a while, and I plan on that taking a while to achieve. The rng on the ring already makes this a long term grinding strategy because of that. People who plan to play multiple characters will want at least one good trifecta ring of each main stat.

Due to the rng on the ring, excessive rng on the process of making it would be very demotivational. It will already take a bit to farm the keys, and if you're going to fight a very difficult boss (or two) you should be guaranteed at least a random one of the three organs (even if you wind up with 8 of those organs and 0 of something else for a while.) Monster power can affect the loot drops of the bosses and give them a higher chance of dropping legendaries or something, but their main purpose should be intact and tangible.


Thoughtful post. I agree that the RNG does start to spin out of control when you consider the drops of keys and the spawns of bosses. I probably like it the way it is because I can play MP10. But I didn't start playing until the game was out for a month so I didn't get the advantage the OP references.

Imo, the end game, as it stands, is gearing for MP10 bosses. To me, the RNG IS so excessive (even at MP9) that it makes MP10 the only reasonable farming grounds. Theoretically, you could farm MP9 for the ease compared to 10 and NEVER get the mats.

So if I am reading Blizzard's mind, they are intending MP10 bosses to be the only reliable way of taking some RNG out of the equation. This sounds like a long-term solution to me. I realize a lot of people want something that doesn't feel like a farmfest/grindfest. I'm not sure what it is they are looking for (outside of PvP).

tl:dr On some level, I agree with the OP to the extent that I wouldn't waste my time farming for the ring until I could farm MP10. That said, I think it is actually farsighted and innovative of Blizzard to let people who like to take risks indulge in the hunt for the ring at lower MP levels. The mantra continues: keep gearing up.

I am Mercurial and I approve of the new D3 endgame.
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