Diablo® III

My thoughts on MP10 & Sprint's RLTW

After some testing throughout the day, I have come to the conclusion that the build is still viable. Unfortunately, the build is now a gear check that requires constant upkeep and slot management that will be out of the pay grade of most players who would rather farm in-game than utilize the mechanics provided to them.

I do realize that the reduction Sprint's proc-coefficient is a pretty cataclysmic change to what continues to endure as a very fun and diverse play-style that incorporates leap, rend, overpower, and war cry, among other skills. The reduction of the proc-coefficient means that many of you out there will no longer be able to farm without some form of upgrades that protects the player more so than sufficiently ignores the proc-coefficient.

That said, I have to reiterate that the build is still viable for the most geared of players. Other classes will no longer be able to point at the Whirlwind play-style and say it's easy to use. I spent a good chunk of my day teasing out different thresholds -- from lowering my critical hit chance to 38% with just one functional passive to utilizing a shield with my off-hand in my main-hand.

Key points:
1) Attack speed is now the must-have requirement. I am not too sure of the lowest end one can go to make it work but on my gear, including the 15% dual wield bonus, I carry 47%. The higher the attack speed, the faster the tornadoes go, and the more likely you will proc. I believe this will be the singularly biggest change to the play-style. While one might say that Skorn users can continue to use the play-style, it would take an extremely geared player to do so.

2) Critical hit chance can go as low as 38% (based on gear) from my tests. With Overpower's Killing Spree rune and Wrath of the Berserker's 10% critical hit chance bonus, you can go as low as 58% without any fury management issues.

3) Fury dumping will be the toughest test of any player who thinks he's good at the Whirlwind. Knowing when to dump, how to dump, and how to use Overpower will be the biggest play-style check.

4) 24% move speed is another requirement. One could conceivably use 12% but the entire point of using 24% move-speed is to be able to stack with Sprint and Berserker. However, it's not necessarily to space out the tornadoes but to limit damage.

5) Crit Shields will be the next big trend once players have hit the raw 100k DPS threshold. Once gained, a well-geared player will equip a life-steal weapon and can gain critical hit chance in the following slots:

Helm: 6%
Gloves: 10%
Amulet: 10%
Bracers: 6%
Belt: 1%
Rings: 12%
Shield: 10%

In total, a player can gain up to 55% critical hit chance and leave room to augment his passives for defensive ones, such as Nerves of Steel, Brawler, Tough as Nails, Superstition, Bloodthirst rather than using Weapons Master or Ruthless.

6) Infinite Wrath is very much viable. I made a point to show it today by spending 10 minutes holding it. I also did a quick test of the Alkaizer route to show that it is easy to sustain. See for yourself (starting at the 9:45 minute mark):

http://www.twitch.tv/acrimony1561/b/333561462

Conclusion:

A lot more needs to be worked out (such as the breakpoint for attack speed as well as the low end one can use), but it's clear that few players will be able to farm MP10 with any ease. I have read a lot of posts suggesting that MP10 is easy -- I can say without question that it's not. It's boring, tedious, and unnecessarily protracted. I have checked out many of the specs of posters who have claimed to have had an easy go of MP10 and I am fairly certain that the majority, if not all of them, are lying about their proficiency. Even with over 1.1m EHP, I still took an inordinate amount of damage; I could not whirl inside a mob at any point without risking death -- every player who claimed to have had an easy go of MP10 had almost less than half my EHP.

Of some comfort, element damage is a lot more manageable in 1.0.5 -- it's the physical damage one will have to concern themselves over.

Ask me questions. I will answer.
Edited by acrimony#1561 on 9/30/2012 4:06 PM PDT
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thanks for the info
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Appreciate your insight. What about WW builds that do not focus on keeping WotB up? Will it still be viable?

I personally use WotB with Insanity to be able to quickly deal with any elite/champs with high CCs.

Should I bother with keeping up this play style or should I make adjustments to be able to maintain WotB to have the WW build worth playing?

Thanks
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how do you suggest i re-gear then based on your observations to make infinite WoTB?

it sounds like CD does not matter as much and that it is sufficient getting 300% CD from your weapons alone and stacking IAS and CC on every other item, is that a fair interpretation?

did you find there was a benchmark DPS in your testing?

also did you try testing with a mighty weapon to see if that makes fury regen easier and therefore perhaps less IAS and CC required?
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Appreciate your insight. What about WW builds that do not focus on keeping WotB up? Will it still be viable?

I personally use WotB with Insanity to be able to quickly deal with any elite/champs with high CCs.

Should I bother with keeping up this play style or should I make adjustments to be able to maintain WotB to have the WW build worth playing?

Thanks


I would argue that infinite Wrath is a requirement if you want to farm or complete MP10 as a WW Barbarian. The damage intake is so intense that without Wrath, you're playing too close to the edge of death more often than not. You also need the movement speed boost -- without that as well, you're a sitting duck (or something).

how do you suggest i re-gear then based on your observations to make infinite WoTB?

it sounds like CD does not matter as much and that it is sufficient getting 300% CD from your weapons alone and stacking IAS and CC on every other item, is that a fair interpretation?

did you find there was a benchmark DPS in your testing?

also did you try testing with a mighty weapon to see if that makes fury regen easier and therefore perhaps less IAS and CC required?


I went as low as 88k with a Mighty Weapon (wildeyes can confirm if he doesn't mind) and found there was little fury issue, but too many close calls with regards to being able to leech quickly enough to off-set the damage taken. I think for comfort level only, a bench mark of 100k is my best guess -- but I can't substantiate that.

From my perspective, rings & amulets should be used for attack speed and critical hit chance -- one that I have been actively trying to do for the last week with little success.
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yup with MW due to the decrease in dmg there were a few close calls, but then acrimony is running i think 3% leech, so if u have higher leech i suppose it would be ok
Edited by wildeyes#1888 on 9/26/2012 6:46 PM PDT
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I forgot to add that War Cry is a wasted skill slot. Overpower's Killing Spree rune is the best in slot from what I have seen. It procs quickly and when you're alongside a pack or in the middle of a mob, it refreshes your fury and leech almost instantaneously.
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Very detailed, thanks for taking the time to do this!
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Appreciate your insight. What about WW builds that do not focus on keeping WotB up? Will it still be viable?

I personally use WotB with Insanity to be able to quickly deal with any elite/champs with high CCs.

Should I bother with keeping up this play style or should I make adjustments to be able to maintain WotB to have the WW build worth playing?

Thanks


I would argue that infinite Wrath is a requirement if you want to farm or complete MP10 as a WW Barbarian. The damage intake is so intense that without Wrath, you're playing too close to the edge of death more often than not. You also need the movement speed boost -- without that as well, you're a sitting duck (or something).

how do you suggest i re-gear then based on your observations to make infinite WoTB?

it sounds like CD does not matter as much and that it is sufficient getting 300% CD from your weapons alone and stacking IAS and CC on every other item, is that a fair interpretation?

did you find there was a benchmark DPS in your testing?

also did you try testing with a mighty weapon to see if that makes fury regen easier and therefore perhaps less IAS and CC required?


I went as low as 88k with a Mighty Weapon (wildeyes can confirm if he doesn't mind) and found there was little fury issue, but too many close calls with regards to being able to leech quickly enough to off-set the damage taken. I think for comfort level only, a bench mark of 100k is my best guess -- but I can't substantiate that.

From my perspective, rings & amulets should be used for attack speed and critical hit chance -- one that I have been actively trying to do for the last week with little success.


I have a case where I could use an echoing fury for 149k DPS with 3% LS or Mighty Weapon for 100k DPS with 6% LS...for efficient paragon levelling and farming what do you suggest? What about MP10?

Edit: There is no LS on Echoing Fury, just there for high damage!
Edited by Bankai#2591 on 9/26/2012 6:45 PM PDT
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09/26/2012 06:42 PMPosted by Bankai
I have a case where I could use an echoing fury for 149k DPS with 3% LS or Mighty Weapon for 100k DPS with 6% LS...for efficient paragon levelling and farming what do you suggest? What about MP10?


I would be very careful about the use of the Echoing Fury. The attack speed means that you're procing more often, but potentially leeching less depending on the fear %. When I equipped an EF into my main-hand, I noticed nothing wrong until the pack started thinning out -- that's when I realized I couldn't hold onto Wrath at all. When they fear proc, you're exhausting more fury chasing them in every direction rather than allowing them to come to you.

The WW should depend on having somewhat static and stationary targets.

However, I'm curious about how it works in the off-hand. When I find an IK belt I will actually use, I will test it out (if someone hasn't already).
Edited by acrimony#1561 on 9/26/2012 6:49 PM PDT
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Is LOH broken? I'm trying to help people gear and am pushing people to LS but not everyone has the budget to boost dps to make it viable.
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09/26/2012 06:52 PMPosted by PhatPhoEater
Is LOH broken? I'm trying to help people gear and am pushing people to LS but not everyone has the budget to boost dps to make it viable.


That needs more testing to be honest with you. As I said before, attack speed is the main priority now -- there's an imperative on being able to proc as much as possible within the tornado's life so that you can maximize your leech gains.
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09/26/2012 06:47 PMPosted by acrimony
I have a case where I could use an echoing fury for 149k DPS with 3% LS or Mighty Weapon for 100k DPS with 6% LS...for efficient paragon levelling and farming what do you suggest? What about MP10?


I would be very careful about the use of the Echoing Fury. The attack speed means that you're procing more often, but potentially leeching less depending on the fear %. When I equipped an EF into my main-hand, I noticed nothing wrong until the pack started thinning out -- that's when I realized I couldn't hold onto Wrath at all. When they fear proc, you're exhausting more fury chasing them in every direction rather than allowing them to come to you.

The WW should depend on having somewhat static and stationary targets.

However, I'm curious about how it works in the off-hand. When I find an IK belt I will actually use, I will test it out (if someone hasn't already).


oh man, wish i heard that earlier, wouldnt have bought the EF then!

So you suggest I go back to my mighty weapon?
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steam up now, http://www.twitch.tv/acrimony1561

come if you have questions
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Hi Acrimony, I've been reading your posts here and there for a while. Again this is an excellent insight into the 1.0.5 gearing and build. My gear is somewhat below the average. I tried MP6 in PTR and found myself die quite a bit. The comfortable zone for me is MP4. With 80m budget, which slot do you recommend me to upgrade first? I am thinking of an IK belt for LS but a one with 150+ str is quite pricey.

Appreciate any advice in terms of gearing.
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Good post.

In summary stack Crit + Ias to have the v1.04 feeling.

Acrimony - Try using Frenzy. I started using Frenzy w/ Sidearm and ditched Bash completely.
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I tried it today, my current gear isn't good enough for MP10. But at 5, i can still faceroll it whit out a problem. Only thing I changed was tough as nail for animosity. I didn't do the entire run, but the I cleared the Filed of Slaughter without any trouble, depths2 and 3, basically the xp route.

Acrimony is right about mp10, I tired it... OMG even the regular spider mob took like a couple of spins to kill.

As as as LS goes, I have it on my belt, mainhand, offhand, and only 300ish LOH. I was able to clear MP5 without much problem.

Maintaining WOTB isn't a problem like many suggest it would be, my fury is always at max. It starts to fail because echoing fury fear proc like acromony say. But u can find another pack rather quick. You don't need to maintain it forever, just long enough to use it again when it comes off CD.
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I tried it today, my current gear isn't good enough for MP10. But at 5, i can still faceroll it whit out a problem. Only thing I changed was tough as nail for animosity. I didn't do the entire run, but the I cleared the Filed of Slaughter without any trouble, depths2 and 3, basically the xp route.

Acrimony is right about mp10, I tired it... OMG even the regular spider mob took like a couple of spins to kill.

As as as LS goes, I have it on my belt, mainhand, offhand, and only 300ish LOH. I was able to clear MP5 without much problem.

Maintaining WOTB isn't a problem like many suggest it would be, my fury is always at max. It starts to fail because echoing fury fear proc like acromony say. But u can find another pack rather quick. You don't need to maintain it forever, just long enough to use it again when it comes off CD.


Hey man, how many seconds did it take you to down white mobs and elites? I think we have almost the same level of DPS so I'm curious.
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Just did another run in which I used a shield and my off-hand while using a non-crit helm to drop my critical hit chance to 37.50%. Didn't die once.

Notes:
- 37.5% critical hit chance
- 44k health
- 700+ AR
- SS with 33% block (no crit)
- 24% move speed
- 75k DPS (before any active buffs)

Will get back to everyone in a bit.
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Lowered my critical hit chance even further to 32.5%. No deaths.
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